9mm vs. 45acp recoil

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Warrior55

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Is it just me or is 9mm recoil more painful than 45acp recoil. I have owned a Kel-tec P11, a Jennings, and a Heritage Stealth, all in 9mm. The have ALL been uncomfortable or painful to shoot. I also own a Glock 30 and a Para Ordinance Warthog in 45acp and they are a pleasure to shoot.

What's the deal?

Warrior55
 
Size of the gun and weight of the gun.

I personally don't think that the 45 is punishing at all but it is significantly more than the 9mm. I can tell you that my GLOCK 22 (40) has a snappy and rude recoil compared to my 45.
 
Are you sure the guns you're comparing are close to the same weight? I know the Kel-Tec, P-11 is a really light gun, and yes, it picks pretty hard. I don't know about the others.

I think my Springfield XD-9, or my Smith & Wesson 39 kick about the same, maybe a less, as I remember my Colt 1911, 45 kicking, but it's been a long time since I shot the 45. The Colt was probably heavier than the two 9mm's still, but the 9's shoot a lighter bullet.
 
I have a Kahr PM9 loaded with 115gr Ranger +P+, and a Taurus PT145 loaded with Double Tap 185gr. I consider both guns to be about the smallest and lightest for their respective calibers. The loadings are about the hottest in light bullets; therefore you'd expect a snappy recoil on both. Indeed both are similar and snappy, but quite controllable and not unpleasant. Since the Taurus is about 10 ounces or so heavier fully loaded, my guess is the .45 has the greater recoil, but the extra weight soaks up the difference.

Lou
 
To me the .45 recoil is more pleasant, which does NOT mean less though--clearly, its easier to get shots off quicker with the 9mm (overall recoil is LESS than the .45). Its just the type of recoil...the .45 being a mild push, the 9mm being a sharp jerk--which slams the hand almost instantly.

Guns and ammo play a role, IMO. 9mm pistols are often not that massive (the more mass, the more recoil gets soaked up), and another factor is that the 9mm is a higher pressure round which tends to produce quickly accelerated recoil.

I think shooters use to lower pressured rounds (.38 special, .44 special, .45 acp) will notice the snappiness of higher pressure rounds more than people use to shooting higher pressure rounds.

Having said this, all three major semi-auto defense rounds (9mm, .40, .45) IMO are easy to shoot well. I just happen to find the .45 (in a full size gun) is the most pleasant of the three to shoot, with 9mm in second place.
 
Weight is more important than caliber in determining felt recoil. It is simple mechanics.

If the weight is the same, then load becomes important. Larger calibers are generally more heavily loaded, to push a larger slug at a decent speed, and so, recoil generally increases with caliber.

Finally, ergonomics of the handle and the height of barrel axis above the wrist stop determine the experienced punishment. That's why shooting heavy loads in revolvers is the hardest punishment when other variables are kept the same.

I agree with previous posters that .40SW in a small plastic gun is the most punishing among autoloaders.
 
9mm and .45 aren't too bad in terms of recoil, IMO. They're both pretty much what you expect in recoil. But the .40 is snappy, even in my P229.

But I think it really depends on what you're used to shooting at the time. For me, I go through phases of what I shoot. With the cost of everything these days, I've been shooting 9mm more and more. If I also shoot .45 on the same trip, I can really tell the difference. But when I shot nothing but .45, it didn't seem like much to me.
 
of all the handguns i have shot (beretta 92 9mm, makarov .380, ruger sec. six w/.38s, hk usp 9mm, springfield 1911 .45, kahr k9 9mm) my kahr is the snappiest of the bunch.
I shot the 1911 for the first time last weekend. The guy i borrowed it from said "watch out, she kicks hard, keep a tight grip", and others have talked about .45s recoil like its quite rough...
after putting a few mags through it, honestly i didnt feel worried shooting it one handed with my weak hand. the recoil was very soft, not light, but soft compared to my kahrs quick snap. the weight of the fullsize 1911 probably helped with that.

im sure if you compared two exact guns shooting 9 and 45 that 45 would kick harder, but imo, not enough harder to be an issue. like others have said, its a different kind of kick.
 
Thanks for all the opinions and info. I understand that smaller, lighter guns kick harder, but I also have a Kahr PM40 (40S&W) that is smaller than the Kel-tec and about the same weight, and it is more pleasant to shoot than the 9mm Kel-tec. I guess my hands just do not like 9mm recoil.
 
Just judging from my full sized versions of each caliber. (CZ-SP01 and Ruger P90 and Colt Gold Cup NM) The "resonance" [if that makes any sense] of the two calibers seems different. To me the "feel" of the 9mm is like a sharp fast punch and the .45 has a stronger but slower push. Sound wise as well the 9mm has a loud sharp crack versus the .45's lower octave bass boom. Altogether the 9mm recoils less it seems to do it faster, Personally I like both the sound and feel of the .45 even though it may be in fact louder/harder than the 9mm.

On another note, I'm at the age when signs of arthritis, etc. are starting to show up occasionally. After I shoot a lot of of 9's, it seems the web of my hand is sore from all the "jabs"; when I shoot a lot of .45's my wrist rather than hand gets sore as the .45 moves more of my whole hand when it recoils.

Have to admit however, although I like the feel of the .45 better, I can put more rounds on target faster with the 9 in rapid fire practice.
 
I once took my friend's Glock 19 and his Charles Daly 1911, one in each hand and fired them at the same time. The Glock kicked harder, most likely because it's made of plastic and the 1911 has a steel frame.
 
Haven't shot any .45 gun, but 9 mm CZ 75 has a mild recoil. But the gun itself weights around 1000 grams empty, though.
 
To me, it's kind of like the rifle vs. shotgun recoil debate. Lighter and faster seems snappier, while the slow and heavy is more of a push. Stronger, as mentioned above, but still more comfortable for many people.

I would expect the little Kel-tec to be uncomfortable, and the Jennings is small, too, right? I don't know about the Stealth, but try a full size 9mm and see what you think. Try out someones Sig or Beretta and see if you notice the difference.

FWIW, my Sig in 9mm is not really any better or worse than a 1911,(just different) but my Makarov in 9x18 is a lot snappier than either. Your Keltec is smaller and lighter than my Mak, and more powerful, so I would think it would wear you out after a while.

RT
 
My brother's G26 is snappy in a quick "wrist twist, and flip up" kind of way.

His G23 was more of a push in the palm, with a slower, longer muzzle flip.

My P239 in .40 is similar to the g23, but with less of a push. It's got a slightly shorter bbl, but weighs a wee bit more than the G23.

My SA 1911 in .45 has a push and a bit of flip, but it stays put well.
The heft of the gun is probably nearing 40+oz loaded.
 
The Jennings was a piece of junk, but it was full sized and heavy. However, since it was cheap, it was a 9mm blow back. That probably didn't help. The Heratage stealth was a small, light gun that was a gas delayed blow back, similar to the HK P7. It was less painful than some of the other 9s I've shot.

I am getting old also (soon to be 56 years old) and the sharp, hard kick of a nine hurts. The Kel-tec made my hand bleed. Although I did recently shoot a Beretta 92 9mm that didn't hurt at all. However, it was large enough that had it been a 45 it would have been sweet to shoot also. I'll stick with my 45's,
 
You just answered your question and solved your problem. Trade in the Kel-tec, Jennings, and Stealth on a Beretta 92. :) Problem solved, and you'll love 9mm again. ;)
RT
 
You guys need to make an apples to apples comparison. Shoot a 1911 chambered in .45 then shoot a 1911 chambered in 9mm.
 
9mm vs. 45acp

Too late. I traded of the Stealth a while back, and traded of the Kel-tec and the Jennings two days ago for a Para Ordinance Warthog (a very classy little 3 inch double stack 1911). It carries 10-1 rounds, weighs 24 ounces and so far kicks very softly into my aging hand.
 
I don't know why, but have noticed a substantial difference between different autoloading pistols in the same calibers - I kind of think the individual mechanics of the different pistols have to play some part in this.

I say this because I have a 5" S&W 5906 that seems to have almost no recoil, even without comparing it to a 4" 5906 or Hi Power or S&W 908. The difference in recoil seems more than the difference in weight between these pistols. Everyone who shoots this 5"er notices it.

On the other hand, a Star PD had significantly more recoil than steel 5" 1911s, which is no surprise and what I think of when we talk about this stuff. I haven't shot one of the good 6" 1911 .45s...

And another example seems to be revolving pistols ;) ... Grips can make a huge difference, just on the same pistol. A 4" Smith M19 does very well for me with an old set of Fitz Gunfighter grips, much better than with any factory grips, or the Ahrends, Hogues (wood or rubber), or Pachys that I've tried. Full power .357s are much, much easier to shoot with the right grips......
 
the two bigger 9mms you mentioned are straight blow backs, that in itself creates more felt "recoil". the other is a very light weight gun.

you have to compare apples to apples to see anything remotely close to what youre trying to capture.

i.e., 9mm 147gr. std pressure versus .45acp 230gr. std pressure both in a1911 5" steel frame guns with the same weight recoil springs........then you can draw a reasonable conclusion.....
 
Comparing apples to apples, let's take a 38 oz gun (an M1911) and do the math.

9mm: Bullet weight = 125 gr
Bullet mass = 0.000423155 sl
Muzzle velocity = 1069 fps
Gun mass = 0.073757764

To keep it simple, we'll disregard gas mass and velocity, so the forumla is
m1*v1 = m2*v2

or 0.000423155 * 1069 = 0.073757764 * v2
v2 (recoil velocity) = 6.706660015 fps (again, disregarding gas mass and velocity.)​

.45 ACP: Bullet weight = 230 gr
Bullet mass = 0.001020408 sl
Muzzle velocity = 960 fps ( stiff load)
Gun mass = 0.073757764

or 0.001020408 * 960 = 0.073757764 * v2
v2 (recoil velocity) = 13.28120301​

In other words, for guns of equal weight, with typical "real world" loads, the .45 ACP generates almost twice the recoil velocity of the 9mm.
 
Vern,

I am sincerely impressed with the math, but my hand likes the slow hard push of a 45 better than the sharp quick snap of a 9.

I want to like a 9 but so far I find the 45 much more pleasant to shoot (this is admittedly a subjective conclusion).

Warrior55
 
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