A Re-visit to "What to do if someone is kicking down your door?"

[ChCx2744]

A thread posted by member S&W 910 a long time ago caught my attention yesterday. Adhering to the forum's rules, I have decided to revive it in a new thread. Here is the link to the old thread for reference: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=160646
Sorry for reviving a 5 year old thread, but I think this is a serious scenario many must consider, especially if you have a gun for protection in your home. Now I don't completely agree with what the OP did in his original thread, but much time has passed since then, and I do not know what kind of knowledge/training/experience the OP has learned or received between then and now. In response to his question, my choices would be as followed:

-You hear loud banging and pretty much are sure that someone is attempting to kick in/kicking in your door.
-Get to a safe location, at least concealment from the door. The nearest room or behind the nearest object to your phone that conceals would be best. Know and study these places beforehand on your own time, MANY TIMES.
-Draw your weapon as fast as you can, but if it is already drawn at this point, GOOD! It is good to have drawn your weapon while doing the previous step, but sometimes getting to a safe spot is more important than trying to draw.

*This is a very crucial moment. At this point, you are at least concealed and at low ready/on bead. Usually, by this time (if not sooner) the BG has already made entry and you must make a decision fast; skip ahead after this part for that.

-However, if BG has NOT entered yet and you are concealed and at ready with your gun, dial 911/try to get to a phone to dial 911 IF TIME/SITUATION PERMITS. IF you are able to do so, keep the phone to your ear, speaker, whatever, just have your gun still at ready and proceed to swiftly, but clearly explain to the operator "Please send help someone is breaking in at blah blah blah and my name is blah blah blah."

-Lets say that you are concealed and at ready with your gun but your phone is in another room and the BG(S) come in. Seconds are very crucial at this point and you must focus on the situation at hand, instead of trying to get to a phone.

-Scream "STOP!" once (Remember, time, even in seconds, is very crucial here. Don't waste your time jaw jacking to the fool.) very loudly, but clearly, having BG's COM in your sights. The more louder and angry you sound, the better the BG will hear you and know someone is clearly home.

-Like another member said above:

*If they stop, GOOD, now in that same thunderous voice, tell them to kiss the carpet, hands out, palms up, ankles crossed, look away from me.

*If they turn around and run, GOOD LET THEM.

*If they continue entering further into your home/towards you then...Well...TAP TAP SPLAT

Hopefully that stops the immediate threat of great bodily harm or death. Hopefully you are already prepared by this time both mentally and legally to deal with the consequence(s) of your decision(s) that have just been described. Hey, at least you are alive. These are just the things that I like to at least go over every time I walk out or into my door. Whenever I'm sitting around, I sometimes catch myself looking at the door, going through these steps. Hey they may not be as perfect as the most textbook training class, but it helps to run these through your mind, at least I think so. If you disagree with my tactics just because they contradict your own, I don't care. I want people to be safe and ready if faced with a situation like this. Take it for what you will.

If the police have the wrong house...Well...There have been instances in where police have been found guilty for wrongfully shooting and killing people (This happened in Atlanta, GA with the Atlanta Police Department, where they shot and killed an elderly woman and the dept ended up facing much time of legal turmoil). If it is the police, they are required to announce themselves if making forced entry, whether lawfully entering or not. People have been fooled by the BG yelling "POLICE!", fake badges, fake uniforms, etc...I believe that as long as you are positive you have no outstanding legal trouble and are completely clean/innocent, the party on the outside kicking in my door better be able to accept full responsibility for what will happen when they get in. If you are justified, have some sort of legal representation/counsel and listen to their advice...Just stick to your bearings and pull through the right way.

Now I understand that this isn't always how a HD or personal defense situation is going to go. Sometimes, things in this world just have a habit of happening at the worst possible times, which we often refer to as SHTF scenarios. Even so, being physically, mentally and legally prepared (To the most of your abilities) is only going to be achieved through education, practice and dedication. You must first train your primary weapon, which is the one between your ears. Be safe, aim small, miss small.

-edit-

It seems that some believe that yelling something to alert the BG of your position/presence is not tactically advantageous. Some like to rack the slide of a shotgun, yell and some just like to go into ninja mode. My preference is to yell, because I clearly notify the BG that they are not welcome and to STOP, not CONTINUE.

Put yourself into a similar situation. Let's say you live alone and are coming home from work/school. You unlock your door and begin stepping inside (knowing you locked it before you left and there is absolutely no legal justification for it to be unlocked and the home occupied.) Lets say that it's pitch black and you are feeling around for the switch. As you are feeling around, someone turns a flashlight on and points it into your face and yells VERY LOUDLY "STOP!" In this situation, 9 times out of 10 a majority of all people (Even BG's hopped up on the most hardcore of drugs) are going to at least realize something just happened and are reflexively going to pause for a moment...Deer in headlights effect. That reflex can be anywhere from milliseconds to 30 seconds. Either way, milliseconds in that situation could mean life or death, and the more I have, the better my chances. THAT is my rationale. Another reason I like the flash light in the face is because another natural human reflex is to bring your hands in front of your face to shield the light. In doing so, the BG is putting his hands directly into the light and showing me his hands and what may possibly be in them. This is even better, because once the bugger lifts his hands and I see a gun or knife...Well...Let's just say that Mr. BG will be taking a very long nap.

 

[Zundfolge]

This is where you really need to know your local laws.

Yelling "Stop" may be required in some states but here in Colorado you're not required to engage in any conversation with an intruder that has just kicked his way into your home, and yelling "Stop" may only serve to give away your position and some of your advantage.

Someone kicks in my door I'm shooting them (well within the law here in Colorado but YMMV) and then calling the police (I can get to my gun a lot faster than a phone).

But other than that your advice looks solid to me.

 

[rbernie]

If someone is kicking down my door and I'm home, chances are that I'll be rooms away and possibly upstairs. In that case, it's not like I'm in a position to contest their entry and instead my goal is to cover the stairwell. If I am upstairs, it's highly likely that I'll have time to dial 911 before engaging anyone, and a verbal warning down the stairs is probably not a bad idea.

If I'm surprised while downstairs? Well, in that case it's probably a far more fluid situation and verbal warnings and other niceties are likely less important than simply controlling the situation. Heck, I may decide to retreat up the stairs and use the stairwell to my advantage - not because my state requires it but because it may make sense to do so.

 

[mljdeckard]

Where I live, the law is worded specifically, that if someone enters your home, either by violence or by stealth, with the intent to commit a felony, deadly force is allowed. Intent can be inferred by the violent entry in most cases.

No I don't WANT to drop anyone, but under THESE circumstances, he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt.

 

[SCPigpen]

I'd shoot them. Castle doctrine. It also extends to my POV.

 

[Fred Fuller]

There is no substitute for being fully cognizant of your local laws (statute law and case law) regarding self defense in your home. YOU MUST KNOW THE LAW. Mere supposition, testosterone-fueled fantasies, movie and television scripts or what so-and-so told you won't cut it in the real world. Talk to an attorney, take a concealed carry class, or do whatever you must to develop this personal knowledge.

For any who are unfamiliar with it, the NRA offers an excellent class called Basic Personal Protection In The Home Course. You can check the locator at http://www.nrainstructors.org/CourseCatalog.aspx to see if there's a class near you. Here's the class description:

Name : NRA Basic Personal Protection In The Home Course

Short Description : Teaches the basic knowledge, skills, and attitude essential to the safe and efficient use of a handgun for protection of self and family, and to provide information on the law-abiding individual’s right to self-defense. (LPL note- this part of the class is jurisdiction- specific, you will learn your local laws.)

More Details: This is an eight-hour course. Students should expect to shoot approximately 100 rounds of ammunition. Students will learn basic defensive shooting skills, strategies for home safety and responding to a violent confrontation, firearms and the law, how to choose a handgun for self-defense, and continued opportunities for skill development. Students will receive the NRA Guide to the Basics of Personal Protection In The Home handbook, NRA Gun Safety Rules brochure, the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification booklet, and course completion certificate.(Lesson Plan, revised 05/09)

The NRA Basic Personal Protection In The Home Course participants must be law abiding, adults (at least 21 years old), and experienced shooters (shooters able to show mastery of the basic skills of safe gun handling, shooting a group, zeroing the firearm, and cleaning the firearm) to maximize what can be learned from this course. Proof of shooting experience can be one of the following: NRA Basic Pistol Course Certificate, NRA FIRST Steps Course Certificate, NRA pistol competitive shooting qualification card, military DD 214 with pistol qualification, or passing the Pre-Course Assessment.

I strongly encourage anyone here who has this class available to them to take it- it will help you sort out a lot of the questions everyone has about how to deal with hot burglaries/home invasions.

I would also remind everyone here about the prohibitions against chest thumping and blood lust in S&T. Everyone here is fully capable of doing whatever circumstances demand they do. No one is impressed by adolescent excess, so let's just not go there. Please.

More benefit can be found in hardening your home and in taking measures to discourage criminals from considering your home as a target ( http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/propertycrime.html ) than in preparing to repel boarders once they gain entry. But everyone likes to do the knee-deep-in-hot-brass scenarios on the Internet.

Except we don't do that here. What a buzzkill, huh? But cheer up- there are plenty of other places on the net that like that stuff. This just isn't one of them. We're a bunch of mindset-oriented, training-focused, skills driven old fuddy duddys here. Sorry 'bout that.

Oh. What would we do? Well, this is North Carolina, and we have some interesting case law here regarding attempts at violent and tumultuous entry into an occupied dwelling. So our legal latitude might be a little wider than some folks'. Kicking doors in most of NC is apt to be a hazardous occupation, it definitely isn't to be recommended.

lpl

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i think there is an option over looked. if my kids and wife aren't around i might call the law and go out the back door we have decent response times and there is no fast way outa my hood one way in and you are at least 10 mins from it. if i have an option that involves not shooting it moves to the head of my line, having said that if its someone i know and i think they will be an ongoing real threat (as opposed to someone off their meds) then i may seek resolution particularly since i had kids. but i am a big believer in "a good run beats a bad stand" and in my dotage have a lot less ego and testosterone driving me.

while its great that i have legal protection if someone kicks in my door its a classic example of "just because i can doesn't mean i should. i am a self centered sob and ultimately i want what will be best for me in the long run. no one i've know who hadcto take action has ever thought it was a good thing. surviving was but all of them woulda just as soon passed

 

[mrokern]

We have a safe area, and getting there is step one. From there, we can call the police, hunker down, and as far as I'm concerned the BG can do what he likes, EXCEPT enter that room.

Police are paid and trained to clear houses...that's their job. I'm in the city, having law enforcement close is a benefit some of our more rural members may not have.

I'll echo the comments regarding knowing your local laws. Here in MN, while we have no duty to retreat in the home, breaking and entering is not a felony. We may not shoot just because someone has broken in. I know, I don't like it either. :banghead:

-Mark

 

[Old Guy]

Old Brit

I live in Florida, some one kicks down my door at night, my Wife and I are up stairs, Cell call 911.

Me top of stairs, any body part shows coming up those stairs, it is shot. No problem with our laws here in Florida.

This is the correct procedure for 74 year olds who shoot good, and intend to be here to blow my birthday candles out for my 75th.

I have not the slightest hesitation in this area, I look after my Wife with the same dedication I have done for the last 20 years. Will I call out, yes I will "The Police are on their way" "I have a gun" Then I wait.

In the past 4 years we have lived here, one false alarm, I waited after the 911 call, 6 yes I did say 6! Deputies in 4 minutes! Not sure if I come up as a Volunteer on the system, but nevertheless less great response time, nice guys, they told me not to worry on the false alarm, one a week could get old! Once in 4 years, OK.

Love Florida. The USA!

 

[Turn Key]

^^Quality plan above ''Old Guy''.

Myself, first I would make sure to put my Glock down before the Deputies responded after being certain the threat was dead and he did not have an accomplice. More and more BG's are training in teams for home invasions so if you do put an intruder down, stay alert and armed and reload if necessary. There maybe more than one breaking in.

Make sure after you call 911 to call your attorney, even before the LEO respond. Be sure to identify yourself as the victim when they arrive and have your weapon down. Let them know only the basics of what happened and that you knew your life was in danger.

Politely let the law enforcement officers know that you will gladly answer all of their questions as soon as you are able and that you want to have your legal counsel present. This is very important ( and no, I'm not a lawyer ) I'm only recommending what I have been taught by IMO the best force on force trainer in the USA, Mr. Gabe Suarez.

The above only scratches the surface on what to do when you are involved in a self defense situation. Gabe has numerous classes on all levels defensive education and some DVD's available.

Get some proper training, not just another gun...

TK

 

[philip964]

Just last night one women was shot and killed and one was critically wounded here. Five armed men with masks kicked in the front door of a their home in Houston. The news article did not say there were any men at home, just the two women. (there were four women and two children at home, one women fired on the intruders, photo of house shows new two story 4000 sf house)

More likely than not, home invasions do not work out well for the people in the home. Recently a man of the house was tortured to death.

I do not carry inside my own home. So getting my wife into a position of safety while I retrieve my weapon, is step one.

Step two is getting in a very nasty gun fight with a lot of bad guys, there is no calling 911 or yelling "stop", hopefully the element of surprise is enough to overcome the bad odds.

With a clip of 20, I would have at maximum four bullets for each bad guy, but I would not know. I probably need to keep a second clip loaded. The bad guys would probably be in the house before I could get to my gun. They would spread out quickly through the house, so I would be fighting out of a room into the rest of the house. I would have the advantage as I know the territory intimately. Hopefully with the first of the gun fire, some will flee.

I would need to be aware that bad guys could reenter the fight from the front door at anytime, so I would need to be aware of my back.

911 would come after it was over, hopefully I would make the call, not my wife.

Regarding the law, this is Texas. I would not be able to carry the fight outside unless it was at night.

The only real question I have is whether I would allow the dead and wounded bodies to bleed on my stone floors?

And a shotgun looks better everyday for home defense.

 

[Deanimator]

I'm not running, EVER.

Ohio castle doctrine doesn't require me to.

I was a lousy runner as a 21 year old 2nd Lieutenant. I'm not a bit faster at 52.

My "back door" is 20' straight down. I'm not breaking a leg, back or neck to avoid shooting a home invader.

If I HAD a back door I'd NEVER run out of it. I have NO idea what's waiting for me out there.

Kick my door in and don't leave when ordered to do so and you're getting shot. If you kick in a door, KNOW somebody's home and choose to stay, mere theft probably isn't the only thing on the agenda.

The law doesn't require me to risk a fingernail to protect a violent criminal from his own bad choices. I'm sure not risking my life.

 

[ChCx2744]

Deanimator said:

I'm not running, EVER.

Ohio castle doctrine doesn't require me to.

I was a lousy runner as a 21 year old 2nd Lieutenant. I'm not a bit faster at 52.

My "back door" is 20' straight down. I'm not breaking a leg, back or neck to avoid shooting a home invader.

If I HAD a back door I'd NEVER run out of it. I have NO idea what's waiting for me out there.

Kick my door in and don't leave when ordered to do so and you're getting shot. If you kick in a door, KNOW somebody's home and choose to stay, mere theft probably isn't the only thing on the agenda.

The law doesn't require me to risk a fingernail to protect a violent criminal from his own bad choices. I'm sure not risking my life.

I HEAR YA THERE LT! My state also honors the castle law and it also extends to one's car/business. People always coming up with ways to "hide and wait." I disagree. A person that has made the decision to kick in your door without any legal justification has already decided that they want to ambush/surprise whoever is home, or just plain out do not know that someone is home. Again, this thread goes back to what YOU would do in a situation like this.

The OP stated that the guy was home with his room mate, and the only gun the RM owned was in the gun shop being cleaned. The problems presented were:

1) Obviously novice firearm owner, because basic cleaning/maintenance was not covered with them. They left their gun at the range to be cleaned...Bad move.

2) One of the options they were curious about was to shoot through the door while they are trying to kick it in. Again, another no-no. If you don't know what is behind what you are shooting at, you probably shouldn't shoot at it.

We all understand that things don't always happen as we plan in our heads/practice and the worst of things have a habit of happening when you least "expect" it to. Even so, the threat of an occupied home invasion is very real and very common in today's society. Not all BGs take the time to watch a home for several days to study leaving/arriving patterns, what kind of car(s) you and/or your family drives, etc. There are many burglars who are opportunists that will do random hits, should even the slightest sign of weakness or vulnerability present itself. That is why you must be vigilant all while leaving, returning to and while occupying your home.

In reference to the kick in...Some have a more conservative, quiet, and ninja-like, defensive approach to this type of situation...I personally believe that an aggressive, offensive, FAST FAST FAST, preemptive strike is the best response in all violent encounters. I do not have children or family living with me and I've considered all possible means of friendly damage in the background at all vital choke points and pinch points in my home. Regardless of the situation, I STRONGLY believe that I have practiced and gone through many different scenarios in my head that, if a home invasion were to ever occur during my residency, I would have the upper hand.

Another good tactic is to be prepared beforehand. I recently put some of these security bars from Master Lock on my front and patio door...

http://www.amazon.com/Master-Lock-2...ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1275336020&sr=1-1

I took it to Home Depot and they let me stick different sized nails and bolts into the holes...lol...sounds funny, but once I found the size that fit good, I put an extra 3 in the 3 holes below the set one for extra reinforcement, in case the stock pin broke under pressure. Feels really solid and it faired pretty well in my "push" test.

 

[Old Guy]

The dispatcher made very sure I was leaving my Pistol behind when I opened the door, "Guns upstairs on the dresser, no one came up stairs"

What happened, some one yanked the screen door open, loud noise, then it slid shut, made a noise... a slithering noise running over the outside mat (I figured that out the next day) so some one was up to no good.

But the lights and noise frightened them away. Cops were good. And I did not have to shoot anyone.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Except we don't do that here. What a buzzkill, huh? But cheer up- there are plenty of other places on the net that like that stuff. This just isn't one of them. We're a bunch of mindset-oriented, training-focused, skills driven old fuddy duddys here. Sorry 'bout that.

Are we forgetting that this is a GUN BOARD? I'm a little miffed that my on-topic, totally appropriate post citing applicable laws, personal experience and my mindset regarding such an incident that will put my training and skills to use in saving my own bacon, got poofed.

Being that it is a gun board, don'tcha think the gun and it's use might come up in a topic discussing home defense? How is this, then, a problem when we talk about what exactly the bullets fired from that gun are going to be doing?

If we're not gonna discuss reactions to having the door kicked in without deleting posts that do just that, why not shut down the thread? I fully agree that measures to prevent forced entry are very important. But that's not what this thread is about. It's about what happens when the BGs defeat those measures. Yeah, it's not only plausible, but a brutal reality that can happen to any of us.

Maybe I'm just not meeting that last old fuddy duddy criteria, as a very active, physically fit and critical thinking 28 year old. If that's the case, please, let me know, and I'll remember not to visit S&T anymore. I post here for fun and to share my line of thinking and personal experiences with others whom it may help in some capacity.

If having had my father murdered in a home invasion doesn't lend credence to my input in a home invasion thread, I don't know what does. It's not a "testosterone-fueled fantasy" to say, with what I've been through, that a home invader will be shot with the intention of killing him. It's a mindset that is the result of experience and innate survival instincts. The equipment and skills I've acquuired as a result will serve that purpose, and the laws in my state will serve me, should I ever be forced into the position of killing a home invader. If this is viewed as chest thumping, I don't need to share my thoughts in S&T anymore. I'm not gonna have anything to contribute along the lines of the best way to back down.

Let me know.

 

[Fred Fuller]

MachIVshooter,

There were three words that got your post 'poofed,' and for your own good I might add. What words?

"...shoot to kill."

If those are the thoughts you want to share, you'd be much better off keeping them to yourself and not posting them here or anywhere else on the internet. For the simple reason that other people can read internet fora, even in private areas like this one, and announcing in advance your intentions to be sure someone is dead, dead, dead when you are through with them is not sound in the legal sense, nor in my opinion does it say much about assuming the moral high ground. Prosecutors can read internet posts, so can the attorneys for plaintiffs who might be suing people for wrongful death or any of a number of other reasons.

In self defense, we SHOOT TO STOP. If our assailant dies, he dies, but he does not die because we intended to kill him but because we intended to stop him and he died as a result. ANY trainer worth his/her salt is going to make this elementary distinction crystal clear to a class.

You may think I am straining at gnats, and overly concerned with mere semantics, but I assure you this is not the case.

And yours is not the first nor will it be the last post that gets deleted here for endorsing shooting to kill when in a defensive situation. The idea is incorrect in a fundamental sense, and S&T/THR will not be a platform for such improper thinking or teaching.

I am truly sorry your father was murdered in a home invasion, that is a tragedy that I do not doubt devastated you and your family. But you do his memory no honor by saying such things in this forum as "shoot to kill."

I hope this helps you understand why your post was deleted, but if you cannot see why I did what I did, it is no doubt better for you if you do not post in S&T any further.

lpl

ETA: A general note... THR has a PM (private message) feature that is more appropriate for this sort of exchange IMHO. But any member who wishes to air their concerns in the open forum can certainly get them addressed in the open forum, just as they would by PM.

 

[rocky branch]

A gunfight is just that.
I did two combat tours in VN.
I have two purple hearts.

This is the bottom line. A live wounded armed assailant can and will kill you and your family if he is still alive and armed.

 

[Fred Fuller]

A live wounded armed assailant can and will kill you and your family if he is still alive and armed.

True enough. A threat is a threat until it is no longer a threat, and if that person is an armed threat, must be responded to appropriately.

But advocating murder in S&T by killing someone who is down and is no longer a threat will lead to banning from THR instantly. Let us all be completely clear on that issue.

lpl

 

[MachIVshooter]

In self defense, we SHOOT TO STOP. If our assailant dies, he dies, but he does not die because we intended to kill him but because we intended to stop him and he died as a result. ANY trainer worth his/her salt is going to make this elementary distinction crystal clear to a class.

I fully agree with that. I also make a distinction between self defense and home defense, as I think most on this board do. While HD includes SD, the reverse is not true, and it requires more justification to use deadly force when outside your home, because in a public place, you 1) cannot make any reasonable assumption that someone intends to harm you until they've already tried and 2) you (usually) have (more) avenues of escape in a public place.

The way CO law is written, a person "has a right to expect absolute safety within their own home"

18-1-704.5. Use of deadly physical force against an intruder.
Statute text

(1) The general assembly hereby recognizes that the citizens of Colorado have a right to expect absolute safety within their own homes.

(2) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 18-1-704, any occupant of a dwelling is justified in using any degree of physical force, including deadly physical force, against another person when that other person has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, and when the occupant has a reasonable belief that such other person has committed a crime in the dwelling in addition to the uninvited entry, or is committing or intends to commit a crime against a person or property in addition to the uninvited entry, and when the occupant reasonably believes that such other person might use any physical force, no matter how slight, against any occupant.

(3) Any occupant of a dwelling using physical force, including deadly physical force, in accordance with the provisions of subsection (2) of this section shall be immune from criminal prosecution for the use of such force.

(4) Any occupant of a dwelling using physical force, including deadly physical force, in accordance with the provisions of subsection (2) of this section shall be immune from any civil liability for injuries or death resulting from the use of such force.

Understanding what that law means (not difficult), and understanding that forcible entry of an occupied home gives the occupant reason to believe that they are in danger, and that under the law, the use of deadly force is not only acceptable, but immune from prosecution, what is the problem in saying that I intend to use deadly force against a home intruder?

In a public SD situation, I will do everything I can to avoid having to use deadly force for many reasons, not the least of which is danger to innocent persons in the vicinity. But if a violent criminal kicks in my door, there is no defusing to be done, and anyone at that door is a threat. That means I will make no effort to retreat or hold my fire. I will unload with the intention of stopping him with the use of deadly force as the law explicitly allows.

Never once did I say "make sure he is dead" or speak of coupe de grace, etc.

ETA:

After I posted, I saw this:

But advocating murder in S&T by killing someone who is down and is no longer a threat will lead to banning from THR instantly. Let us all be completely clear on that issue

Once again, I never advocated murder. I don't have my own text to copy, but I'm pretty sure the verbatim of what I said was "bullets will fly until he ceases to be a threat, which will most likely be because he ceases to be alive". I did not say "I will make sure he's not a threat because I will make sure he's not alive". If we're gonna get into the semantics, I submit that we should use proper syntax, full context and appropriate definitions.

I'll refrain from using the the simpler term "shoot to kill" in the future, replacing it instead with the more PC legal jargon "use deadly force" as I did above. I do ask, however, that it not be inferred that I'm bloodthirsty and homicidal because I used laymen terms in describing my home invader defense mindset that is 100% in line with the law.

 

[NMGonzo]

Call 911 as I reach for the 870.

 

[NMGonzo]

I do not carry inside my own home.

....

And a shotgun looks better everyday for home defense.

I do ... even doing yardwork on the back.

I am just thinking that it would suck to try to run for the night table if determined house invaders jump the wall on the back.

 

[Kleanbore]

I'm pretty sure the verbatim of what I said was "bullets will fly until he ceases to be a threat, which will most likely be because he ceases to be alive".

Since the overwhelming majority of persons shot by handguns survive, that comment could well be interpreted, or made to sound like, premeditation....

Understanding what that law means (not difficult), ....

It is never a good idea to rely upon a lay interpretation of a written statute based upon common dictionary definitions alone. One must understand how each statute fits in with the overall mosaic of state law and how the law has been interpreted in any appellate cases, and to the extent possible, know something about how trial courts have decided cases under the law. Consult an attorney.

...what is the problem in saying that I intend to use deadly force against a home intruder?

Again, consult an attorney. The law you cited appears to me to say that deadly force may be used if the other person (1) has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, and when the occupant has a reasonable belief that such other person has committed a crime in the dwelling in addition to the uninvited entry, or (2) is committing or intends to commit a crime against a person or property in addition to the uninvited entry, and when the occupant reasonably believes that such other person might use any physical force, no matter how slight, against any occupant.

Reasonable belief, of course, is something that is judged by others after the fact.

The law where I live has none of those little conditions--uninvited entry alone is said to be justification for the use of deadly force, according to the code as it is written--but I'm not going to test it based on a lay interpretation.

...anyone at that door is a threat. That means I will make no effort to retreat or hold my fire. I will unload...

I respectfully recommend against staking one's future on the assumption that the little notion of necessity will never come up come up, particularly after his having previously expressed his intention to shoot any home intruder. Also consider that the question of whether one had fired more rounds than would reasonably have been necessary to stop the intruder, after having said that, in the event of an intrusion, he will "unload" and that the intruder "will most likely not be alive", could be pivotal.

 

[Old Guy]

Somewhat of a balancing act yes?

In this kind of area, one that a moderator can slam the door in your face, you must play the game.

I have monitored classes, that had young Instructors give advice, "Fire twice at center of mass, and evaluate" Say what? And then look left and right, with exaggerated twisting of the head! Gun lowered to 45' Degrees. Mental.

But in this case it seems to be very narrow focus, a door kicking in Home Invasion.
Not some one grabbing your Wifes Purse in a busy street, dragging her off her feet, and running through the crowd, with the rent no less.

Specific, crash, door bust in, one or more home invaders coming into your home. Armed or not, it makes no difference.

He/Her/They are being shot a lot. A fist full of 9mm's are heading out, I can have around 10 rounds out in less than two seconds.
This is an absolutely horrendous shock, no thought is even involved. My Wife is behind me? You will have to take my last breath to go by me, and I am always armed.

 

[Old Shooter]

If someone is kicking down my door it's probably not because they didn't see the doorbell button.

Unless your doors are much stronger than mine I don't think I will have an awful lot of time to dial 911, chit-chat with the operator while keeping an eye on my poor, weakening door. However, if the situation is such that I can call 911 I will do so. I will probably yell (loudly) something to the effect of get the heck out of here, cops are coming or something like that.

If the door comes crashing in, the party has started.

Biggest fear I would have is that the local SWAT team has the wrong house. Now that is a nasty kettle of fish.

Me against the bad guy, like to think odds are even or mayby a bit in my favor due to home turf.

Me against the local SWAT team that just came under fire while making an entry, no upside to that one.

 

[Guy de Loimbard]

I would not do any "Stop or I'll shoot" yelling myself. A home invasion may not be a smash 'n' grab but it may turn out that they are looking for YOU. You've just confirmed that you're home and likely somewhere within sight of the door. My own plan is keep quiet, if they leave then they leave, if they bust the door down then I would very likely shoot them.