AGH! My Brother is an anti!

[Nick1911]

OK so here's how it stands, my brother just graduated college, and even though he lives in a big city with a higher crime rate then where he grew up, he seems to be an anti. His statements included that "not that many houses get broken into in Baltimore", "I don't think that I would feel any safer with a gun", "everyone says that if your house is broken into that you should just pretend your sleeping." So I rebuttled as best I could using logic. He said that he hasnt ever shot a gun and would be willing to try.

I've got 3 days to work with.

HELP! I've never tried to convert someone, and don't have the slighest how to go about it.

Thanks,

Nick

 

[fjolnirsson]

Oleg's site,
www.a-human-right.com

SHow him innocents betrayed, from JPFO

 

[P95Carry]

would be willing to try.

Nick, that is the chink in the armor!! Don't worry about stage #2 yet .. get thee to range with bro ... start him on some modest .22 stuff ... and get him hittin target. LOTS of encouragement.

Then watch (I hope) for semblance of a forming grin .. as he realizes - hey . this is fun!

The ''conversion'' to better thinking can come later once he is smitten ... hopefully. Just get him thinking along the lines of .......

Why does anyone have a fire extinguisher? .. ''just in case''

Why put on a seatbelt ?...... ''just in case''

Why have smoke alarms? ... ''just in case''

Why have home-owner's insurance .. ''just in case''

''You can't make appointments for emergencies''.

Do a search also on 2A posts here ... lots of good material for you to use.

Go at it ...... and good luck.

 

[hillbilly]

I would say that instead of showing him any movies or giving him any literature the very first thing you need to do is take him to a range and make sure he has a lot of fun there.

Start him off with the lightest, smallest-caliber, least-kicking gun you've got.

Work him to bigger, more powerful calibers slowly.

After he has a lot of fun, then show him "Innocents Betrayed."

But I would say at first don't talk politics, don't talk rights, don't talk Second Amendment, just get him to a range and make sure he has a fun, safe time there.

After he's all excited about shooting, then do all that other stuff.

hillbilly

 

[angrywalkindude]

Nick that sucks!

I would kick the $%^# out of my little brother if he told me that.

Is he older or younger than you are?

 

[ducktapehero]

The light kicking gun is a great idea. I would also suggest targets that are "fun" to shoot instead of just paper. Like 2 liter Coke bottles with colored water, use your imagination.

 

[Nick1911]

I would kick the $%^# out of my little brother if he told me that.

Older, by 4 years.

get thee to range with bro ... start him on some modest .22 stuff ... and get him hittin target. LOTS of encouragement.

That's what I'm thinking at the moment. 10\22 and paper plates should do fine. Perhaps the Buckmark as well?

Also I think that having LOTS of hearing protection will go a long way.

Oleg's site, www.a-human-right.com

While I'd be good for him, I don't think I could get him to sit and watch the whole thing. He'd probably (at least now) dismiss it as a line of BS. (Them college's know all, ya know )

Guys, if the next 4 years does that to me, someone PLEASE slap me, hard!

Nick

 

[sm]

I wish you well.
Good advise has been given.
I'll add one more. Acceptance
One cannot change people,places and things. Only person that can change a person - is that person.

I paid for Lessons, training, CCW license and chipped on a gun and equipment for my youngest brother.

He made a decison. The rest of my family made a decison - except one in regard to attitudes about personal responsibiity and firearms.

I have not participated , been invloved in any family get togethers, holiday's, or unwrapped a gift from any family member in a long long time. I am NOT invited, I am NOT welcomed.

The exception is my mom.
She needs to go somewhere I take her.
She had this re-affirmation not long ago about being out and encounters can happen anytime, anyplace.

She waits for ME...the rebel, of the family.

 

[Nick1911]

I would also suggest targets that are "fun" to shoot instead of just paper.

I think that reactive targets would go along way too. Suggestions? At the moment all that's coming to mind is clay pigons.

(hehe, we posted at the same time sorta )

Nick

 

[P95Carry]

Nick ... whilst they are not cheap ... try and get some of those yellow/green ''splash'' targets (Shoot'n'see??) ...WalMart may have em. Instead of small hole the area around hole looks colorful and large .. hardly need a scope to see holes. VERY nice to use.

Also for about 15 bucks . a small metal spinner thing .. adequate for .22's .. ''ping'' ... and another falls over . all reset by a shot to center one .... lovely stuff!

Again .. good luck.

 

[sm]

Do NOT shoot the ".22lr only spinner target" made by Hoppe's with a with a .454.
It don't work well for 9x23 either.
There is reason why they have that ".22 ammo only" ammo warning.

Well at least the fella was a shooter that welded the two out of three spinners back on..."I know what you did". Shows me the one he had to make a whole new spinner for. Seems his .38Super was a bit much for his spinner as well. oops

 

[pax]

Reactive targets on the cheap:

1) water-balloon sized balloons, mostly air with a tiny amount of flour inside. Flour 'poofs' a cloud of 'smoke' when balloon is hit.

2) water balloons filled with water.

3) full soda pop cans. They explode nicely. (Okay, not so very cheap, but you can find deals here and there...)

4) empty soda cans. They fall over.

5) golf ball. Put it fairly close and start shooting; three or four hits later, it'll be an impossible target as it will have bounded back some distance. But it's a lot of fun to get it out there!

6) rotten fruit or veggies from the back of the produce dept. at the local grocery store or co-op.

pax

 

[0007]

Check into the crime stats for Baltimore. Bet they are a lot higher then he thinks. My local paper prints up a weekly section for the city that show where all the reported crimes took place. Maybe the Baltimore paper does something simililar or has somewhere on their wbsite where such stats can be found.

 

[artherd]

Agreed, teach him to weild a gun first.

Then he will realize it's just a tool, and that it's probally one he should have at the ready, all on his own.

Education is an amazing thing (and just having graduated, he's right at the BEGINING of real learning This from a 23year old btw.

That's what I'm thinking at the moment. 10\22 and paper plates should do fine. Perhaps the Buckmark as well?

Yes, both, but don't forget to bring the .338Lapua Magnums too! My brother went from the small stuff all the way to my biggest rifle his first day.

He liked the Armalite AR-30 .338 the best too.

 

[Waitone]

What if the bad guy in your house is not intimidated by a sleeping victim? What if he decides to attack said sleeping victim. The posture the intended victim takes has nothing to do with the action the bad guy intends to take.

BTW, Baltimore is a profoundly violent city, not quite as bad a DC but notable nonetheless.

IIRC the Hog snake will flip over and play dead anytime it feels endangered.

 

[Kharn]

"not that many houses get broken into in Baltimore"

I'm sorry, but thats just funny.

Good luck with it, we need all the progunners we can get in this state.

Kharn

 

[Ashendale]

Nick,
Same with my brother. He used to be hardcore anti. After I took him shooting he's actually thinking about buying a gun now. BTW, my bro's name is Nick too.

Ian

 

[Andrew Rothman]

I agree that getting him shooting is a great first step.

When it comes time to talk politics and policy, start with YOU. Are YOU safe and responsible? Of course! Are YOU going to shoot up a schoolyard? Nope.

So by what logic should you be banned from owning a gun?

Point out that there are 300 milllion people and 200 million guns in the USA.

And there were 11,348 gun homicides. That means, even if there was a different murderer and a different gun for every murder, that one out of every 17,624 guns was used to murder.

Nearly four times as many people (43,987) died of motor vehicle-related injuries. There are about 214 million cars in the USA, about the same as the number of guns.

Have your brother visit the CDC's web site and play around with their mortality report generator, WISQARS, at http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html

Have him look at FBI crime statistics at http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/02cius.htm -- particlularly tables 5 and 6.

 

[Standing Wolf]

If he's living in Baltimore, he'll find out about crime before long. I hope he wises up before he finds out about crime the proverbial "hard way."

That saidâ„¢, brothers are entitled to be rock-solid wrong their entire lives.

 

[spacemanspiff]

everyone says that if your house is broken into that you should just pretend your sleeping

i'm dying to hear what your brothers "everyone" says a woman should do if shes confronted by a rapist.

 

[outofbattery]

It is my opinion that not everyone needs to like or own guns . If a person if uncomfortable with them for any reason , it is their perogative as it is their responsibility and no one else's to make decisions concerning their personal safety and how they choose to (not) defend it . I don't think someone that isn't necessarily pro-gun is an *anti* ; it sounds like he just doesn't feel the need to own one or isn't comfortable with them and that's fine . I believe that fence sitters would be better off not owning firearms in many cases - unsafe gun handling and lack of training in how to deal with a stressful situation could very well be worse than no gun at all . If he wants to go shooting and enjoys it , then great , but I don't think the issue should be pressed .
My GF is not anti-gun by any stretch of the imagination , she just doesn't see the need to own one for protection and though she's taken the NRA basic pratical pistol course , doesn't have any desire to shoot for enjoyment either . That's entirely fine by me , I don't have any more need to interest her in guns than I need to take up her interest in her horses !

 

[Nick1911]

outofbattery, that is a very valid point. My primary point I want to make (at this time) is to de-mystify guns. Show that they arn't just used by criminals.

I'll see where this goes.

Nick

 

[Roadkill]

My brother is also an anti gunner. Won't have anything to do with them. Few years back he called me about a bad nasty tempered German Shepard mix that had taken up at his place. We live out in the country and stray dogs always show up. Their typical liberal attitude was to be nice to it, feed it, and it won't be so mean and not try to kill our cats anymore. So they fed it, was nice to it, and it got worse and worse, up to the point it actually chased my brother & family into the house and they were afraid to go outside. Outside to them is something you pass through on your way to to the car/office/mall. So he called me:

Him: "Hey, can you do something about this dog?"
Me: " I told you three weeks ago to shoot the damn thing"
Him: You know I won't have a gun. Too dangerous"
Me: "What do you want me to do?"
Him: "Get rid of it. You know."
Me: "No, I don't know. What do you mean"
Him: Very low voice so wife/kids can't hear : "Shoot it"
Me: "You shoot it"
Him: "I don't have a gun. Too dangerous"
Me: "What's more dangerous right now? (silence) I'll be there in a minute.
Him: "Wait a few, I need to get Gloria and the kids away"

I went to the toy room, forty three guns on the wall, selected a Mod 97 Winchester, 32" barrel, full choke, 12 ga. and five #4 magnum shells. Drove up to brothers, this stupid dog thought it was going to chase me off, he caught on when I slammed him in the head with the door of my 85 Dodge camo truck, then he hauled off into the woods as I got out and started loading the Winchester. I walked into the treeline about 15yds and waited. After ten minutes or so my brother drove back up the drive way, the stupid dog ran out of the woods snarling, barking, ect, then I stepped out and let loose with the 12 guage. The first round hit him in the left hindquarter, the second on the right shoulder as he spun, and the third was from five feet behind his ears. He died. And my brother, wife, and kids saw it all.

Anti gunners seem to always know where to find someone with a gun who knows how to use it when they are threatened.

rk

 

[RevDisk]

My brother was never really an anti, but he never wanted to own a weapon. After a few rounds through my .45... he was a changed man.

He's really into history and is on a limited budget, so he's now into Mausers. Not exactly ideal for stopping an intruder indoors because of overpenetration, but at worst... it's one heck of a big club. Whenever he can afford it, he's going for a classic 1911 or a Luger.

 

[kudu]

Nick, when my wife and i were dating she didn't lie guns, or more to the point didn't know guns. I got out a ruger single six and a couple of boxes of CBlongs with some pop cans filled with water and a bunch of balloons with a bit of water for weight blown up to shoot at. She had a ball with the little .22 that had no recoil and no noise with CB's.

Next time we had a .357 mag with light .38 specials in it, ear protection needed but same targets. She had fun. She doesn't shoot much but understands why I do or we probably would not be married now. My preferred shooter is a shotgun on the skeet range, thats where the most fun for me is to be had.

The secret is fun. Even if he still doesn't like guns, he will realize that they can be fun and a good time and won't bad mouth them to others.


PS Nick. if you get up around Warsaw give me a PM and we'll get together and shoot some trap or skeet.