My rabidly anti-gun/liberal brother is visiting tomorrow

[LarryS.]

Quite a bit of this thread makes me happy to be an only child....

 

[shooter429]

Ahhh I C

Brother as a teen in all his wisdow, throws dad's values out the window and does just the opposite to prove him wrong. Oppositional to authority. Interestingly, my experience is that people who work with cons closely like COs and CCOs tend to take on some of their attitudes and social mores. Very interesting.

Sounds like you and I are a lot alike in a lot of ways. My brother was initially against guns. Finally, one day, I convinced him to pick up my Glock and try it so he had first hand experience. That day at the range was all it took. Soon, he joined the NRA, started buying and shooting and has since surpassed me as gun nut of the family. LOL So perhaps there is hope.

Enjoy your visit. And remember family is family-more important than just about anything else in this world, IMHO.

Shooter429

 

[Geno]

You know, perhaps he just needs educated. Sign him up for a 1-year NRA membership, then, deny deny deny

Of course, I have never done any such thing.

 

[XD-40 Shooter]

The other thing that concerns me, he and his wife have two son's. I've expressed interest in teaching them safe, proper gun handling, along with shooting my single shot 22 carbine that I had, when I was a kid. His son's are 10 and 13 respectively. My brother has emphatically stated, no way!:banghead: I'm concerned that his kids will learn about guns on the "street" and very bad things will happen. But hey, its his kids, if they learn about guns the hard way, it will be tragic, but its not my problem. After all, I offered to teach them. He's so closed minded and fearfull of guns, its frustrating and rediculous. I hate to say it, but my brother is a sheep, I'm a sheepdog.

Speaking of common values and belief's, there are very few. My brother does not believe in individual freedom, personal responsibility, or self reliance. He believes in big government, social services, police protection and all the rest of it.:banghead: Sad thing is, me and my brother don't talk a whole lot and we only see each other a couple times a year. We are polar opposites. My dad has stated that he made the decision to be different from the rest of us, its his problem.

I have a stepbrother that I get along very well with. We both enjoy outdoor activities such as hiking, camping, four wheeling, and shooting. He's on the liberal side with his politics, but we still have a lot in common, we talk alot and hang out together.

 

[mike101]

Very simple solution: Simply tell him: "Check your attitude at the door or leave. My house. My rules."

Wise words. You could head him off by starting a conversation about what a gnat-brained, Oprah's pin-up Obama is. No experience. No substance. Good teeth, though.

 

[Badkharma]

It's truly sad the status of many poster's families here. The key is to never let it get to that point, but obviously it's too late for many of you as you say.

 

[Fisherman_48768]

Same with my brother, we're on opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm a pro gun activitist conservative and educated. My younger brother grew up blowing smoke, literally, went into the Navy and spent his time living in California and New Jersey. He's still blowing smoke, lives in NJ and has that mindset. We were both raised in a house where hunting, fishing and shooting were what the men did to put meat on the table. He votes across the board blindly Dem regardless of the person or persons stand on anything. Like I said I'm conservative and will vote across party lines for the candidates that support my views dem or rep. With his views and some things he has done to shame the family in this small Mich town I no longer speak to him nor wish to. Like I tell people when they ask where my brother is my reply is: I don't have a brother but my mother did have two sons, they understand.

 

[General Geoff]

This thread is proof that politics really are evil. The very notion that simple ideas can tear a family apart at the seams is just atrocious.


I have an older sister, and we never got along when we were kids. In fact, we barely exchanged words even up to high school, when she moved out, and I bought a house. I think we've exchanged about four sentences over the past four years. We're rather politically opposed, I'm sure, but that's never come up between us, directly. We just don't plain get along. And I'm fine with that; it's much better to know you don't talk to your sister because she doesn't like you than because she doesn't like your political leanings.

 

[jpk1md]

Family issues are obviously tough.

There comes a time in some peoples lives when they need to decide what is more important, Family or Beliefs. Sometimes family members that are at odds with one another will adopt a "Let Sleeping Dogs Lie" approach to tough subjects when it has been proven that positions/beliefs are not resolveable.

On the other hand there are people out there that cannot let it lie and continually must grind the axe.....unfortunately the most prudent course of action may be simple ex-communication or avoidance.

The reason I say this is because if a family member does not love you enough to respect your beliefs then they really don't love you at all.

 

[Mannix]

Their kids, their choice, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't at least try to introduce your nephews to other outdoor activities, like fishing and hiking. Don't use the fishing/hiking/whatever as a way to get them into shooting, just use it as a way to get some sort of common ground between you and your brother's family. Who knows if they'll like it or not, even if they don't, spending time with them(void of any and all talk of guns, no need to make your brother freak out) may give them a positive view of you(a gun owner), and if they do turn out to like it, they'll likely be bothering your brother to bring them to see unky XD every few months.

Best case scenario, you may find you have yourself a couple new fishin' buddies .

Perhaps in time your brother will come around, but confronting him about it is just going to alienate him, and his sons. Best to just leave it be and see if maybe you can find common ground somewhere else.

 

[eric.cartman]

I'm sorry to hear that.

My brothers are 15 and 16-yo, and are already indoctrinated in the right direction My father calls himself the last true conservative in America (and so does my step mom, their mother), so they're getting a good dose of the right upbringing everyday. Thank God!

When they visited me in FL for the first time earlier this year (they live in NJ ) I asked my father is it's cool if I take them shooting... his response: of course! every man should have and know how to use one

Of course my Dad doesn't have guns (except the one i left behind in his upstate NY mountain home) but he strongly agrees with me and my views. Oh, did i mention the youngest one of the two already plans on going to U. of Miami and moving in with me. He wants a Desert Eagle (yea, i know, i'm gonna have to work on that... too much Counter Strike) and a CWP, and a bike

I love my brothers!

 

[Blackbeard]

My brothers are 15 and 16-yo, and are already indoctrinated in the right direction

It'll change when they get to college. My left-wing enviro-nut brother once wrote a paper in school where he proclaimed himself a pro-Bush (41) Republican. Now he's about the most radical leftist I know, and a global warming policy advocate.


P.S. I don't know how I escaped my east-coast university without being turned to the dark side.

 

[RPCVYemen]

Several month's ago, I wrote my brother a 5 page long letter explaining my views on guns and why I believe the way I do,...

From that, it's clear the issue is not any longer about the expression or validity of your beliefs - the issue is your desire to show that he's wrong.

There comes a time in some peoples lives when they need to decide what is more important, Family or Beliefs.

But that's not the issue! The poster can have believe what he believes whether or not he ever says one more word to his brother about those beliefs. It's not even about communicating his beliefs, he has done with the five page letter. The question is clearly not one of belief or communicating belief - it's the value of family versus the ego-rush of winning a verbal battle with your brother.

I am not in any way judging you - I am speaking from experience. If the cost of your desire to show that you brother is wrong is your relationship with you brother, then you're willing to pay a high price for that ego rush. If you brother was going to persuaded by you arguments, he would have been persuaded. So you are sacrificing a relationship with your brother for the hope of an ego victory is a very unlikely prospect.

His relationship with my dad has been rocky over the year's, but as of late, they have made amends.

My brother got so pissed, after my dad backed me up, he got in his car and left! I find this humorous and ironic that he cannot and will not have a reasoned discourse on the issue, because he can't.

Look into yourself - I suspect that the argument you want win has nothing to do with guns and is entirely about your father - his pursuit of approval from dad and your pursuit of approval from dad. If that is correct, then he key issue for both of you - is that your dad chose you by "backing you up."

The key bit of evidence here is that you seem to be unable to articulate your brother's arguments at all beyond the shallowest bumper sticker thinking. That suggests to me that you aren't listening to him - you're shouting at him.

My suggestion:

1. it with him quietly, and ask him to explain to you exactly what he feels about guns and why.
2. Do not argue with him. This is about communciation, not winning.
3. Listen.
4. Listen.
5. Listen.
6. When is finished, thank him for explaining why he believes what he believes.
7. Explain that you now understand what he believes and why he believes what he believes.
8. Explain that since he knows what you believe (from the letter), and you now know what he believes, and the two of you don't seem to be able to discuss the topic without anger, you won't talk with him about in the future.
9. Have the internal discipline to stick to #8, whether or not he does. In general, if you won't argue, he can't.

Mike

 

[JLStorm]

I wouldnt even invite someone like this over my house, blood relative or not...why set yourself up for the hassle? Cant you just have him stay in a hotel or stay at someone elses house?? Why not just meet him for dinner and be done with it.

There is no difference between someone who hates guns and torments me about it and someone who hates my wife, neither would be invited over to my house...that simple. So many people will make excuses for these people who feel the need to insert their opinions constantly (on your own property no less), but to me that is just sacrificing morals and convictions for the sake of another. No way. Life is to short to torture and limit yourself simply because someone is related to you, you may not be able to choose your family, but you can certainly choose not to spend time with any of them that bother you that much.

 

[XD-40 Shooter]

Why should I let my brother believe that he has "won"? Since he berated and ridiculed my belief's the last time he visited, I was not going to let that go. I could not respond verbally, since he starts yelling and shouting, getting all up in my face, I did it in writing. Now he knows what I believe and why I believe the way I do. I don't care if he agree's with me or disagree's with me, I'm not trying to convert him. I know that I will never convert him and that's fine. All I did was respond to his attack of my belief's, its up to him to respect that and stop instigating conflict's. You know what they say " A conservative is a liberal who has not been mugged yet".

 

[JLStorm]

Why should I let my brother believe that he has "won"? Since he berated and ridiculed my belief's the last time he visited, I was not going to let that go. I could not respond verbally, since he starts yelling and shouting, getting all up in my face, I did it in writing. Now he knows what I believe and why I believe the way I do. I don't care if he agree's with me or disagree's with me, I'm not trying to convert him. I know that I will never convert him and that's fine. All I did was respond to his attack of my belief's, its up to him to respect that and stop instigating conflict's. You know what they say " A conservative is a liberal who has not been mugged yet"

You shouldnt! dont mind people who say otherwise possible havea watered down sense of values from years of PC lectures and speeches on acceptance of others at the risk of your own morals and ethics.

You know the answer already, you just want acceptance from others on your opinion...in a forum this big you are going to get answers from all across the board. You need to do what feels right for you, and it sounds like you already know what that is....even if pop culture and political correctness say its wrong...screw em...follow your own beliefs.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Hi XD,

The question I see isn't why should you let your brother think he's won as much as what do you have to gain BY winning?

OK, your brother is annoying. News flash, All brothers are annoying! If you want truly annoying I'll lend you mine for a couple of days if only to give my sister in law a break from him! But in the end, it's the same brother that covered for me when I was just a bit late getting home one night. Move past the annoying, let him his small victory for no other reason than the time he covered for you. When he goes home you still have your hobby and he still has his. What's to lose?



Selena

 

[paramedic70002]

"Shooter : My brother decided to go his own way when he was around 16. His relationship with my dad has been rocky over the year's, but as of late, they have made amends. My brother is a probation officer with a human development degree, translation : liberal indoctrination in college. My brother see's the worst of society on a daily basis and I believe he equates guns as part of the problem, not the solution. He fails to look at the real problem, the criminal.

Me on the other hand, I've always been very close to my dad, still am. My dad taught me how to shoot when I was 8 years old on a single shot 22. He got me interested in guns and taught me safe gun handling, I'm very thankful to him for that. I'm also a very shy, quiet person who likes the more individualistic hobbies, shooting, hiking, camping, four-wheeling, ect.

My brother, on the other hand, wanting nothing to do with what my dad taught me. He likes the more social hobbies like basketball, volleyball, golf, ect. My brother is a "city slicker" and I am an "outdoorsman". I hate the city, love the mountains, my brother is just the opposite.

My brother also gets the majority of his information from the popular media, when he decides to watch the news, which is not very often. Me, on the other hand, I get my info from the internet, this and other gun boards, the NRA, gunblast.com, and so many others. I tend to do a lot of research on my own to reach my own conclusions, my brother does not."

Sounds like the basis for a TV sitcom. Or drama.

Send him this after his visit, after you read and memorize it before the visit:

http://www.jpfo.org/ragingagainstselfdefense.htm

 

[Pigspitter]

My sibling and I have never been on common ground when it comes to guns.
Funny, that might have to do with the fact she is the girliest girl I know, but I still love her. Here is my family's opinions on guns by member
Mom-You don't need anymore.
Dad- Why do they have to be so expensive?
Sister- Hum guns...zzzzz
Me- Hey I don't have a gatling gun yet and that could be a problem.

 

[Kentak]

If I were in this situation, I certainly would feel no need to sanitize my home of gun-related materials. Since he is a guest in your home and since you know this is an area of contention between you, there is also no reason to bring up the subject for the purpose of needling him or starting a debate. Debates rarely change the opposition's view. Their purpose is to present arguments to inform an audience--such as political debates.

If he brings up the topic, you can take the high road and simply say, "Look, we know we disagree on this, let's not beat that dead horse again....." or something similar. That's showing class and giving him the cue to do likewise. If he persists, remain rational and logical and rebut point for point, but always try to bring it to a calm conclusion. If he doesn't drop it, fire a couple rounds over his head as an incentive to ****.

K

 

[RPCVYemen]

Why should I let my brother believe that he has "won"?

As long as it's clear to you that your are savaging a relationship to "win" - that this is not about what is right - it's abut who is right, then you get to make that decision.

I think you've heard enough on the topic that if you decide that you want to maintain your beliefs and not argue, you know how to do that now.

You also also know how not to do that.

But don't delude yourself - this doesn't have anything to do with RKBA. It's about who wins.

If you know that you are right, then what does it matter that he believes he won?

The decision is yours.

Mike

 

[JohnL2]

Geez, at least my brother isn't a Nazi-liberal.

 

[XD-40 Shooter]

Update : Today's visit has gone well so far, no mention of guns, friendly conversation about college football, and other mundane topics. I think this will be a pretty good day/visit. I think we've seen where the gun/politics/religion conversation goes with my brother, we've all learned to avoid those topics, so far, so good.

I am however awaiting any potential reaction to the "protected by Smith&Wesson sticker on my door", if he even notices it. I'm not going to remove it, as that would be a pain in the a**.

 

[tasco 74]

i guess i'd wear my smith&wesson MAGNUM t-shirt an see what's said....

 

[XD-40 Shooter]

I do have an awesome Springfield Armory T-Shirt, the front just says "Springfield Armory", the back has the SA logo and along the bottom it says, "Bring Enough Gun, Any Mission, Any Condition, Any Foe, At Any Range". The one I got is black, but they also come in white, see www.midway.com under the clothing tab. I've also got a SA-XD ball cap with "Springfield Armory" along the bottom of the bill. Its a pretty awesome combo when worn together. However, I'm not going to wear it, as I don't want to provoke my brother, but I would really like to wear the shirt. In the interest of civility, I won't.