TallPine
Member
Do you live in YOUR home or your folks' home ????
Who invited your brother?
Who invited your brother?
My rabidly anti-gun/liberal brother is visiting tomorrow
- Thread starter XD-40 Shooter
- Start date
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If you live in your parents' home then it's up to them to tell your brother what topics are and are not for discussion in the house.
You are fully capable of telling him you won't discuss it with him and can't be goaded into fighting with him. Tell him that you will be willing to discuss it when he goes to the range with you. Until then you have nothing to say on the topic. And just smile at him.
You are fully capable of telling him you won't discuss it with him and can't be goaded into fighting with him. Tell him that you will be willing to discuss it when he goes to the range with you. Until then you have nothing to say on the topic. And just smile at him.
Davo
Member
XD I remember your brother from a previous thread, I think because Im in the same boat.
Im a conservative minded 26 year old, my brother is a 25 year old Sociology professor at a major midwestern university(sounds odd saying it). Ill let you guess his political ideations.
We argue alot, but I believe we are mellowing out. He has alot of misconceptions about gun culture, and conservatives, likewise for me and liberals, Im sure. Calm, rational discussion is the only way to discuss things now, or we dont discuss them at all.
BTW Hes gotten a beer gut over the last few years, and I now call him "the worlds fattest vegitarian"
Im a conservative minded 26 year old, my brother is a 25 year old Sociology professor at a major midwestern university(sounds odd saying it). Ill let you guess his political ideations.
We argue alot, but I believe we are mellowing out. He has alot of misconceptions about gun culture, and conservatives, likewise for me and liberals, Im sure. Calm, rational discussion is the only way to discuss things now, or we dont discuss them at all.
BTW Hes gotten a beer gut over the last few years, and I now call him "the worlds fattest vegitarian"
Black Adder LXX
Member
ROTFL!!!
One of my greatest joys in life is when I get to tell visiting family members (South FL is VERY popular in the winter): "This is my house. Under my roof we follow my rules." It isn't very popular, but it IS effective...
RoadkingLarry
Member
He isn't the type to pull some kind of false domestic violence complaint and file a bogus restraining order to foul up your 2A rights is he?
The night my dad died we were all out at his house. I knew it was going to be a hard, looooong night. Anytime my two older sisters get together it almost always turns out bad. My oldest sister is a flaming Bush hating liberal. The other sister has a son and a daughter that served in Gulf One and a grandson that would be coming home from Afghanistan in a few days. Her two other grandsons were in ROTC. She once told me "I used to be a liberal Democrat. Until i went to work for CPS (Child Protection Services) and found out how bad the liberals have screwed this state up."
As usual "oldest sister" managed to get the conversation turned towards politics. And the war. I stood up, looked at Mom, walked between my sisters, looked at "oldest sister, then at "other sister" and said "I like chocolate ice cream the best. What about you?"
They got the message.
As usual "oldest sister" managed to get the conversation turned towards politics. And the war. I stood up, looked at Mom, walked between my sisters, looked at "oldest sister, then at "other sister" and said "I like chocolate ice cream the best. What about you?"
They got the message.
grampster
Member
In the course of conversation I'd tell him that "You're my brother and I value you above any of my other relationships. I hope you value me as much I do you."
Further, "With respect to our disagreement about firearms, I think we should never bring the subject up again with one exception. If you would agree sometime, I'd like to take you to my range and we'll shoot some and discuss the rules and uses of firearms in ways other than what you are accustomed: their use by criminals and fools." "If you feel the same after we have done that, then we'll invoke the 'never bring the subject up again' rule."
Further, "With respect to our disagreement about firearms, I think we should never bring the subject up again with one exception. If you would agree sometime, I'd like to take you to my range and we'll shoot some and discuss the rules and uses of firearms in ways other than what you are accustomed: their use by criminals and fools." "If you feel the same after we have done that, then we'll invoke the 'never bring the subject up again' rule."
Black Adder LXX
Member
^^^ Wisdom
jaholder1971
Member
You've never been introduced to mine. I'd trade him for a goat with leprosy but I'd feel bad for insulting the goat.
W.E.G.
Member
Sounds like the brother in the present case is a real piece of work. You can put whatever value on such things as they warrant.
Just because somebody is "blood" doesn't mean they are worth spit. Family can be bad news sometimes. Y'all that got good ones, just go count your blessings. Like the saying says, "Don't p*** down my back and tell me its raining."
FWIW
Officers'Wife
Member
Hi Magsnubby,
You sir have the soul of a diplomat.
Selena
You sir have the soul of a diplomat.
Selena
Mauserguy
Member
Barack Obama? Wasn't he dog catcher for five or ten minutes? I mean, really, anybody that supports an idiot like Obama it beyond hope. I would be sure to be reloading or cleaning a rifle when he showed up.
Mauserguy
Mauserguy
XD-40 Shooter,
This may not be what you want to hear, but you've opened yourself up to this forum, so don't hate me too much for chiming in. I want to pinpoint what I believe to be a big part of the problem you described. Here it is:
Pride can destroy any relationship if you let it. I'd encourage you to set a goal that by the time your brother leaves he will be more convinced than ever that you love him. The more he knows he can trust you, the more open he will be to your differences of opinion.
If the subject does come up, and he wants to argue, make your goal to keep him calm, not to win the debate. Don't take his attacks personally. Look for opportunities to agree with him. I'm not saying to go against your beliefs, but when it really comes down to it, for the most part, anti-gunners like your brother usually are just sick and tired of all the violence. Aren't we also sick and tired of the violent crime? That is in fact the reason so many of us carry. Logic is on your side, so if he wants to pursue it, let him walk you through the logic of his position, and you can calmly ask questions that might challenge his logic, but try to let him find the logic without letting him feel like you're trying to force it on him. You need to respectfully consider his comments too. Maybe you can learn something from him.
If you could get him to the range, that would be golden.
If not, maybe you can find an opportunity to let him handle your XD-40 at home. For example, if he says, "Guns are dangerous" say: "They sure are, do you know how to make one safe? Let me teach you. It is something everybody should understand" I guess I'm just assuming he isn't very familiar with guns, but you get the idea.
Anyway, I wish you the best and hope you'll find this helpful. I'll get off the soapbox now.
This may not be what you want to hear, but you've opened yourself up to this forum, so don't hate me too much for chiming in. I want to pinpoint what I believe to be a big part of the problem you described. Here it is:
Pride can destroy any relationship if you let it. I'd encourage you to set a goal that by the time your brother leaves he will be more convinced than ever that you love him. The more he knows he can trust you, the more open he will be to your differences of opinion.
If the subject does come up, and he wants to argue, make your goal to keep him calm, not to win the debate. Don't take his attacks personally. Look for opportunities to agree with him. I'm not saying to go against your beliefs, but when it really comes down to it, for the most part, anti-gunners like your brother usually are just sick and tired of all the violence. Aren't we also sick and tired of the violent crime? That is in fact the reason so many of us carry. Logic is on your side, so if he wants to pursue it, let him walk you through the logic of his position, and you can calmly ask questions that might challenge his logic, but try to let him find the logic without letting him feel like you're trying to force it on him. You need to respectfully consider his comments too. Maybe you can learn something from him.
If you could get him to the range, that would be golden.
If not, maybe you can find an opportunity to let him handle your XD-40 at home. For example, if he says, "Guns are dangerous" say: "They sure are, do you know how to make one safe? Let me teach you. It is something everybody should understand" I guess I'm just assuming he isn't very familiar with guns, but you get the idea.
Anyway, I wish you the best and hope you'll find this helpful. I'll get off the soapbox now.
jrhines
Member
What would I give to have David or Corky at my house just one more time. The last time we were together I was 12, I'm 64.
"Hey brother, it's just not important. Wanta' beer?"
"Hey brother, it's just not important. Wanta' beer?"
Dr. Peter Venkman
Member
Forget the blood lines. Being related seems to mean having an A-OK for causing more bull**** and drama. I've been there and jumped through so many loops that I lost track years ago. Forget the loyalty and judge a person by their actions, not who they were born to.
I say print out a bunch of FACTS on guns just in case he opens his mouth.
I say print out a bunch of FACTS on guns just in case he opens his mouth.
This is just my opinion. Individual results may vary.
I've had a similar situation with my sister who up until recently (There is a thread on it) has been anti-gun. I've dealt with this for the better part of a decade.
Here are my considerations/thoughts:
1. It hasn't been answered yet if this is your parents' house or yours. If it is their house, then it is their rules. You have to respect that. HOWEVER, even if it is your parents' house, you should not be expected to be goaded into a discussion that will paint you in a bad light. If at their house and the bro starts in on you, politely and firmly tell him that you have your beliefs and he has his. Tell him that you decided prior to this trip that this was not a topic you would discuss and would appreciate his respecting that. END OF DISCUSSION.
2. If it is YOUR house, I would make NO efforts to hide your interests. A man's home is his castle. The castle gets decorated as he sees fit. If a guest does not approve of that, there is a very easy way for the guest to address the situation-- Holiday Inn.
However, a good host will not goad his guests into a controversial arguement. It would be bad form for YOU to bring up RKBA discussions with him if he is your guest. If he brought them up, I'd say that we should probably stick to more agreeable topics on this visit. If he insists, burn his eyebrows off with facts, philosophies, the writings of our founding fathers, and statistics.
3. I saw some comments to the tune of "I'd rather have my brother than my gun" that sounded great on the surface. I, however, respectfully disagree.
You see, it isn't a question of if your brother would miraculously fall over dead because you have chosen to have a gun. It isn't an either-or "existence" question.
It would be a question of if there would be a relationship with the brother due to the difference of beliefs. It depends.
I EXPECT family members to afford me the same respect for my beliefs that I give them. I EXPECT that family members of differing beliefs not to force their beliefs upon me. I EXPECT that a family member would not hold my relationship with them in the family hostage over differences of beliefs.
If a family member DOES choose otherwise, who is at fault? Who owns that decision? I've lived too long to belief that family members somehow get a non-expiring get-out-of-jail-free card for any action. If one chooses to alienate themselves from me on beliefs, then they own that decision. The sun will come up again tomorrow.
There ARE things that a family member CAN do that puts the relationship at risk. You can be more forgiving of them, but it does not mean destroying your own base of ideals to accomidate THEM.
We always hear that a sucessful relationship in marriage takes the effort and work of both parties. I would say that ALL relationships require this. Principles are not negotiable, and should never be. However, beliefs do not have to be freely spoken about. Goading into a discussion of them can be avoided. If that isn't good enough for the brother, then he can expect a Christmas card with a cheesy photo of my Jack Russells with Santa every year and call it a relationship.
Again, your beliefs are not mine, and do not have to be. But that is my take on it.
-- John
I've had a similar situation with my sister who up until recently (There is a thread on it) has been anti-gun. I've dealt with this for the better part of a decade.
Here are my considerations/thoughts:
1. It hasn't been answered yet if this is your parents' house or yours. If it is their house, then it is their rules. You have to respect that. HOWEVER, even if it is your parents' house, you should not be expected to be goaded into a discussion that will paint you in a bad light. If at their house and the bro starts in on you, politely and firmly tell him that you have your beliefs and he has his. Tell him that you decided prior to this trip that this was not a topic you would discuss and would appreciate his respecting that. END OF DISCUSSION.
2. If it is YOUR house, I would make NO efforts to hide your interests. A man's home is his castle. The castle gets decorated as he sees fit. If a guest does not approve of that, there is a very easy way for the guest to address the situation-- Holiday Inn.
However, a good host will not goad his guests into a controversial arguement. It would be bad form for YOU to bring up RKBA discussions with him if he is your guest. If he brought them up, I'd say that we should probably stick to more agreeable topics on this visit. If he insists, burn his eyebrows off with facts, philosophies, the writings of our founding fathers, and statistics.
3. I saw some comments to the tune of "I'd rather have my brother than my gun" that sounded great on the surface. I, however, respectfully disagree.
You see, it isn't a question of if your brother would miraculously fall over dead because you have chosen to have a gun. It isn't an either-or "existence" question.
It would be a question of if there would be a relationship with the brother due to the difference of beliefs. It depends.
I EXPECT family members to afford me the same respect for my beliefs that I give them. I EXPECT that family members of differing beliefs not to force their beliefs upon me. I EXPECT that a family member would not hold my relationship with them in the family hostage over differences of beliefs.
If a family member DOES choose otherwise, who is at fault? Who owns that decision? I've lived too long to belief that family members somehow get a non-expiring get-out-of-jail-free card for any action. If one chooses to alienate themselves from me on beliefs, then they own that decision. The sun will come up again tomorrow.
There ARE things that a family member CAN do that puts the relationship at risk. You can be more forgiving of them, but it does not mean destroying your own base of ideals to accomidate THEM.
We always hear that a sucessful relationship in marriage takes the effort and work of both parties. I would say that ALL relationships require this. Principles are not negotiable, and should never be. However, beliefs do not have to be freely spoken about. Goading into a discussion of them can be avoided. If that isn't good enough for the brother, then he can expect a Christmas card with a cheesy photo of my Jack Russells with Santa every year and call it a relationship.
Again, your beliefs are not mine, and do not have to be. But that is my take on it.
-- John
Officers'wife,
Thank you. Life's to short to spend it arguing.
When my bro-in-law died last year (just three weeks past his 58th b-day) my then 13 yo grandaughter told me "I really feel bad. The last thing i ever said to him was "Shut up." They had a great relationship. He loved to pick on her and she would eat up all the attention.
I can't really remember what he said to her the night before as she was walking out the door i just remember him laughing like crazy at her.
Thank you. Life's to short to spend it arguing.
When my bro-in-law died last year (just three weeks past his 58th b-day) my then 13 yo grandaughter told me "I really feel bad. The last thing i ever said to him was "Shut up." They had a great relationship. He loved to pick on her and she would eat up all the attention.
I can't really remember what he said to her the night before as she was walking out the door i just remember him laughing like crazy at her.
Blackbeard
Member
I completely understand having differing political and philosophical beliefs from one's siblings. I'm the oldest of six, and the only conservative, and the only gun owner. The others are four liberals and a moderate. I've gone ten rounds with them over the Iraq war and global warming. We still get along fine, and have a great time together, because we know not to bring up politics at family gatherings.
I'm hoping that they will learn from me that owning a gun does not change who you are.
I'm hoping that they will learn from me that owning a gun does not change who you are.
XD-40 Shooter
Member
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2007
- Messages
- 912
To answer the question, this gathering is at my parents house. I'm currently renting a garage apartment from them, on the same property, seperate from the house. My dad has been a life long gunnie, like I said, he's the one that got me into guns at a young age. I've told him that I'm not hiding my stuff, being made to feel ashamed of my hobby, which really pisses me off. My dad said this was fine, leave the stuff where it is.
I've made the invite to go to the range several month's ago, no response from the brother, which means he is not open minded enough to go. He does not want to see or experience an activity that will shatter his prejudicial view of guns or gun owners. It seems that a lot of anti-gun people have this attitude, its really pathetic in my book.
Several month's ago, I wrote my brother a 5 page long letter explaining my views on guns and why I believe the way I do. I addressed the concealed carry issue with relevant facts, the founding father's views on guns, historical supreme court rulings, the fallacy of police protection, the legitimate sporting use of guns, self defense, the "hobby" of guns, I pretty much covered all the bases that I could think of. I also included an abbreviated fact sheet from gunfacts.info. I don't know if my brother read it, but if he did, he know's where I stand. I think my brother has always wondered where I stand politically, he's had a suspicion that I might be a Republican. After reading my letter, he should have no doubt that I am a CONSERVATIVE. My stance on guns pretty much says it all.
I have a suspicion that my brother knows where I stand, that I am firm in my belief and he will respect that. I don't expect guns to come up tomorrow, if that happens, then it will be a good day.
I wish it were possible to have a reasoned discussion of this issue with my brother, I would enjoy it. I'm curious as to why he believes the way he does, I'd like to feel him out. Then I would like to politely debunk his positions with relevant facts, I've got a ton of them from www.gunfacts.info. The only problem is, my brother has a short temper, is confrontational, and gets wrapped up in emotion very easily. Speaking of people that probably shouldn't have guns, my brother is one of them! Like I said, confrontational, short tempered = trouble with a gun. Maybe he's projecting his own problems on the rest of us, projectionism. This might have something to do with how he feels.
I, on the other hand, am very non confrontational, level headed, and it takes a lot to piss me off.
I've told him that I'm not hiding my stuff, being made to feel ashamed of my hobby, which really pisses me off. My dad said this was fine, leave the stuff where it is. I've made the invite to go to the range several month's ago, no response from the brother, which means he is not open minded enough to go. He does not want to see or experience an activity that will shatter his prejudicial view of guns or gun owners. It seems that a lot of anti-gun people have this attitude, its really pathetic in my book.
Several month's ago, I wrote my brother a 5 page long letter explaining my views on guns and why I believe the way I do. I addressed the concealed carry issue with relevant facts, the founding father's views on guns, historical supreme court rulings, the fallacy of police protection, the legitimate sporting use of guns, self defense, the "hobby" of guns, I pretty much covered all the bases that I could think of. I also included an abbreviated fact sheet from gunfacts.info. I don't know if my brother read it, but if he did, he know's where I stand. I think my brother has always wondered where I stand politically, he's had a suspicion that I might be a Republican. After reading my letter, he should have no doubt that I am a CONSERVATIVE.
My stance on guns pretty much says it all.I have a suspicion that my brother knows where I stand, that I am firm in my belief and he will respect that. I don't expect guns to come up tomorrow, if that happens, then it will be a good day.
I wish it were possible to have a reasoned discussion of this issue with my brother, I would enjoy it. I'm curious as to why he believes the way he does, I'd like to feel him out. Then I would like to politely debunk his positions with relevant facts, I've got a ton of them from www.gunfacts.info. The only problem is, my brother has a short temper, is confrontational, and gets wrapped up in emotion very easily. Speaking of people that probably shouldn't have guns, my brother is one of them! Like I said, confrontational, short tempered = trouble with a gun. Maybe he's projecting his own problems on the rest of us, projectionism. This might have something to do with how he feels.
I, on the other hand, am very non confrontational, level headed, and it takes a lot to piss me off.
XLMiguel
Member
If he can't behave like an adult => Motel 6
Stevie-Ray
Member
My brother is OK with guns, but he's not allowed to have them. (Wife) But we differ on political issues. Strange, we're both UAW but I was the one that constantly stabbed the UAW in the back politically. Actually, I always called it reading the platforms. Brother is more of a union lackey as I call them. We can put our differences aside when we get together, generally. I agree that I love him too much to let our differences divide us. Now, if only the wives could.....................
pdowg881
Member
I find it intersesting that so many people who grew up in the same house can have radically different views. Seems like every family (including mine) has that classic far left liberal in it.
MatthewVanitas
Member
This seems like a good opportunity to seize the moral highground, so I certainly wouldn't provoke him out of spite.
Maybe try and find some common ground? One possible debate tactic is to get him nodding, think of ideas that you do share about freedom, individual responsibility, personal perspective, etc. Going right for a single topic that will get a kneejerk negative response is not a way to build consensus.
Not saying to kowtow to his beliefs, think of yourself as being the mature mediator, and him as someone who is on the very edge of agreeing with you.
Maybe try and find some common ground? One possible debate tactic is to get him nodding, think of ideas that you do share about freedom, individual responsibility, personal perspective, etc. Going right for a single topic that will get a kneejerk negative response is not a way to build consensus.
Not saying to kowtow to his beliefs, think of yourself as being the mature mediator, and him as someone who is on the very edge of agreeing with you.
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