Almost got robbed , i think .

[ChCx2744]

I was in Carl's situation once..But my situation went as followed:

I was pumping gas and there was another car parked to my left no pumping gas. There were 2 young, black males blasting loud rap music, just staring at me. At that point, I remembered I left my keys in the ignition, so I got back in my car and took the keys out. As I exitted my car, I had my right hand in my pocket on my G26. The chilling thing is, the passenger in the other car got out with HIS right hand in his pocket with a bulge in his hoody. We stared at each other as we both got out at the same time in the same stance. I positioned myself behind the gas pump and continued to pump, but kept a close eye on the part of his arm I could see from behind the pump. I actually, for some reason, thought I might die that night. They ended up driving away after I tightened my gas cap and nothing came of the incident. Late night gas pumping in a less-than-reputable area can be very nerve racking.

 

[Carl]

It was more because of trained reflexes that I did that. Plus, will most criminals call bluffs? I also had a folder in my waistband where my hand was, so if I had to defend myself from an attack, I'd still have something other than empty hands.

 

[CornCod]

You see a lot of good descriptions of street encounters here at THR. They are usually very well written. However, even in a well written description of an event, the armed citizen may leave out 100 different subtle details concerning the disposition of the potential bad guy, his position, his facial expression and many other things. In a real sense you have to be there to completely understand the scenario. Back when I was a probation officer in a nasty urban district we sometimes had to describe some kind of violent (but non-deadly) encounter with criminals to our bosses, many of whom would engage in really stupid "monday morning quarterbacking," especially since many of them hadn't been on the street for twenty years. In short, I think these scenarios and the responses to them are useful, but there are limits to their usefulness.

 

[scottaschultz]

First of all, my apologies to robodood605 for confusing him with Carl.

But anyway...

I was in Carl's situation once..But my situation went as followed:
...I had my right hand in my pocket on my G26.

Actually you weren't in Carl's situation because you had a loaded gun at your disposal whereas all Carl had was his index finger!

Bluffing where firearms is concerned is a death wish! I challenge anyone to show me anywhere that any qualified firearms instructor or LEO will tell you that bluffing is an acceptable means of defense. Sure, a thief doesn't want to be shot over a few bucks, but he doesn't know how much money you have until you give it to him! You have no way of knowing what is going through the BG's mind, how much he has had to drink, how much drugs he has been using or what his motivation is.

Little boys playing cowboys and indians or cops and robbers point their fingers to pretend they are shooting. Resoonsible adults don't do that!

Scott

 

[Wile E Coyote]

Scott, read it again, again.
Carl originally described an empty bluffing maneuver, but in post #27 he clarified that he had more than a finger to back up that bluff.

 

[scottaschultz]

Plus, will most criminals call bluffs? I also had a folder in my waistband where my hand was, so if I had to defend myself from an attack, I'd still have something other than empty hands.

Backing up a handgun bluff with a knife? Good idea!

As far as second guessing a criminal... you go ahead and take that chance. Send me your address so I can send a nice floral arrangement to your widow just in case you guess wrong next time!

I think what you guys who think he made a correct tactical move by bluffing are forgetting is that if someone is intent on robbing you, they are desperate. The law and its consequences are meaningless to him. He has probably never read anything by Massad Ayoob or a Strategies & Tactics forum on the Internet. This isn't an IPDA exercise for him; it is survival. More likely than not, it is to support a drug or alcohol habit. There is only one rule, to get your stuff!

It is not a game to him so don't treat it like one!

Scott

 

[Wile E Coyote]

^^^Who but us readers and Carl knew it was a handgun bluff? All the approaching "gentleman" knew was that he had picked a hard target that was implying he had means to defend himself. I ask you to revisit the scenario in your mind, relax your rigid views and realize none of us armchair commandos were there. Real life is something that happens outside of SD books and even internet forums. Real life requires we use what works for us, in that particular situation, at that particular time. Would you have Carl suspend time long enough to retrieve a firearm? Again, real life doesn't work like that.
I'll give you the fact that there were omissions with Carl's original story that muddied the water, but we have more facts now. Getting your mind past this 'bluff' seems to be the biggest obstacle.
Is this something we can lay to rest now?

 

[DHJenkins]

Any time I'm pumping gas, I already have a significant projectile weapon ready for use in my hand...

lpl (a snootful of Regular makes the attitude go down... not what Mary Poppins said, I know)

I probably never would have thought of that, but I will now.

I just have one question for everyone in the thread - why aren't you getting your gas during the day? I honestly can't remember the last time I had to buy gas at night, other than a 21-hour marathon drive from TN to TX a few years ago.

 

[scottaschultz]

Getting your mind past this 'bluff' seems to be the biggest obstacle.
Is this something we can lay to rest now?

Fair enough. My whole point in belaboring it was that I would rather eventually lay this topic to rest than for Carl's widow to be laying him to rest!

Scott

 

[RoostRider]

I just have one question for everyone in the thread - why aren't you getting your gas during the day? I honestly can't remember the last time I had to buy gas at night, other than a 21-hour marathon drive from TN to TX a few years ago.

You get your gas at night because you need to drive at night and don't have enough to get where you are going... pretty simple, and I do it all the time (I'm a night person)... same reason anyone does anything with any amount of risk involved... because the rewards outweigh the risk in your mind....

I accidentally bluffed a weapon to a criminal once.... here's the story....

Walking to the corner mart at night (I know... lol... NEVER go out at night!...lol)... on the way there a person steps out of an unlit door entry right behind me and starts walking behind me... I turn in such a way as to make it obvious that I see him, and he starts in with "whatchu lookin' at!".... so I pull to the side of the walk and let him pass and walk behind him.... he goes by slowly and eyeing me up.... keeps looking back at me...

I go to the store and buy what I want and leave.

As I am walking back home the same person is in the middle of the walk in front of me, so I casually go to the other side of the street... he crosses as well, still in front of me.... so as not to look 'scared' I continue to walk towards him, intending to pass him (looking scared around here is a bad idea... a literal invite to criminals)....

As I close in on him he shouts "I AM ZANE AND I CAN DO ANYTHING!".... I stop 10 yards short of him and start re-calculating.... not looking scared can only go so far..... I reach into my pocket looking for my knife (knowing my gun was resting at home).... it's not there!!!

At this point "ZANE" shouts at me to take my hand out of my pocket, and puts his hand into his pocket.... I verbally refuse and tell him to get lost.... he repeats his rant about being "ZANE" and doing anything.... and he begins to close the gap insisting that I remove my hand from my pocket.... I again refuse and start to step back to keep the distance... "ZANE" is cautious, but clearly not afraid of my hand in my pocket, as he is still trying to close on me...

This is when "ZANE" decided to pull his large knife and charge me... I removed my EMPTY hand from my pocket in the form of a fist, cock my arm back and said loudly "ONE MORE STEP AND I BREAK YOUR JAW!!!!".... he stopped... said something about "thought you were gonna attack me"... called me some sort of name.... we circled each other slowly like boxers, him with his knife and me with my fist cocked, and then I cautiously walked home, being sure he wasn't following me..... and called the cops....

After talking with the officers, I went home and armed up and nervously walked around my house and yard for 2 hours letting the adrenaline die down... I thought about what 'could have happened', and I still do today...

The point here is that a bluff doesn't always work... even an unintentional bluff.... like when you think you have the flush, but you really a diamond mixed in there.... and when/if it doesn't you might be left as the guy who is clearly on the weak side (such as I did), at which point there is little reason for a criminal not to proceed...

Lucky for me, "ZANE" thought that there was a real chance that I actually could break his jaw (and I sure would have tried), or I would be robbed and or stabbed right now... had he had a gun instead of a knife, it probably would have ended a LOT worse for me... had I had my gun on me, "ZANE" would probably have been running down the sidewalk away from me with a clear line of piss behind him....

I believe there are times to bluff your ability to defend yourself.... but those times are at the end of the rope.... when you have nothing to loose... who knows how this might have turned out had I not accidentally bluffed this guy.... he might have seen me as the easy target I was, or he might have taken my age, size and alertness into account and left me alone.... but he was clearly not in a right frame of mind, or he would have left me alone in the first place because I don't look rich, old, or 'easy to take'....

This guy was ready to battle it out with me no matter what he thought I might have to defend myself.... the only thing that stopped him was the fact that I WOULD defend myself, despite being underarmed.... had he realized his advantage, or had more of one, I might be dead right now, if I had simply tried to continue to 'back down' he likely would have continued his assault...

Just food for thought....

 

[ChCx2744]

Roostrider, I'm pretty sure that guy was close enough to make you feel uncomftorable, especially with a knife...A person armed with a knife can close distance faster than you think. If you would have been armed with your gun, deadly force was definately justified there. I see it all. Verbal commands and a treat to your immediate saftey. I am glad you are safe.

 

[chevyforlife21]

once i had a crackhead begging for money in all we gave him a couple dollars in change. he still wouldnt leave us alone i was in probly the worst city in my entire state in a bad neighbor hood then it looked like he was goin for a gun reaching into his wasteband but he showed a stab wound. needless to say i was scared cuse i wasnt armed this was also 12am with no one around. alls i had on me was a pocket knife. btw i was playing a band show that night at this venue thats why i was there in the first place i try to stay out of these kinds of neighborhoods in the first place. but eventually we just got into my car and drove off. no one was hurt