That was funny. I had to read the prior post two times to make sure I wasn't missing something.
an entire year of shooting lost to the hoarders and gougers
- Thread starter Cee Zee
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That was funny. I had to read the prior post two times to make sure I wasn't missing something.
First I DID stock up before the panic. I have about 15,000 rounds of .22 LR right now. The trouble is I have to wonder how long that will have to last. Then there's the fact that 15,000 rounds is not that much for me. I practice a lot.
I really just think that ammo makers could have done something about this problem by now. They know there's a huge demand for their product but instead of trying to fill that demand they just sell what they have for more money. It's supply and demand. The demand is high and the supply is low so the price goes through the roof and they make a lot more money without having to invest any more. Well that's gouging their customers the way I see it.
For those that think this is about fighting among ourselves I don't know where you get that. Yes I get ticked off at people who buy up everything Walmart puts on the shelf and sell it for 4 times the price on a gun auction board. But I don't think those people are even shooters. They're just gougers and it's generally illegal to do that for many things in times of crisis. How long would people sit still if they were buying up gasoline and selling it for $14 a gallon? What they do stinks. They aren't sportsmen. They're pirates.
I could definitely shoot more than I do for now. But how long would it last? I went to a site where I've bought ammo for years and they want $70 for a brick of Winchester 555. I'll never pay that. Never. It's highway robbery. I was buying that ammo for $12 a brick a year ago. $12. Winchester could have opened a new factory by now but they don't need to as long as they're making money like that. It's a disgrace. They don't care about their customers that have been supporting them for generations. They only care about making a quick buck. Well they're going to kill the sport of shooting. Only the very rich will be able to afford it. I'm not exactly poor but I wouldn't pay that much no matter what. I'll make that 15,000 rounds I have last me the rest of my life first. I don't need to plink or practice target shooting. I just need enough to control pests. I have all the centerfire and shotgun ammo I will need in my lifetime too. So don't tell me about stocking up. I come on here and say what I think about the situation and how bad the companies are acting and I get attacked for my views and by people thinking they can tell me what to do. I'd bet I have as much ammo as 99% of the people on this board. But again I won't be shooting it for target practice or for fun. I'll keep it until I really need to shoot it and I won't have to buy another round as long as I live. And I won't need all the .22 rifles I have either. I'll keep one bolt action and one semi-auto and sell the rest. I won't go to another competition. And when the fad of shooting is over companies like Winchester can go under wondering where their customer base went. Same goes for Federal. I have found some CCI so I may buy some of their stuff. But there hasn't been as much as there should have been.
Those companies should have been loyal to their customers and built new factories. They would use the capacity eventually no matter what. When old equipment breaks down they would have new equipment to take it's place. But no, they had to stick it to us. That's a 2 way street.
This is the second great panic. Are they stupid or are they just greedy? I'm thinking greedy. They could have built more capacity. They didn't. To heck with them.
BTW I've been voting for a very long time. So don't assUme you know that I don't.
It isn't magic. It's investment. And why would their projections be so wrong? I knew to stock up. Why don't the manufacturers know to increase capacity? People here blasted me for not stocking up (even though I did) and now others are saying not to expect the same forward thinking from the companies. That's not right. And if Winchester, Federal, Remington, Eley, CCI, etc. all increased capacity it would easily triple the previous capacity of the whole industry.
No. Not at all. It's the people that ran out and bought up ammo because they thought it would become illegal that are hoarders. If you bought ammo when the prices were down that just makes you smart.
The rimfire situation hasn't gotten one bit better where I live. I said I could find centerfire ammo. It's rimfire that has disappeared and that's what most people use for practicing lots and lots. I've went through periods where I shot 7.62 x 39 or .223 or 30.06 or 12 ga. or .45 ACP or 9mm etc. almost all the time. But it's not the same as having cheap rimfire ammo available to practice.
I really just think that ammo makers could have done something about this problem by now. They know there's a huge demand for their product but instead of trying to fill that demand they just sell what they have for more money. It's supply and demand. The demand is high and the supply is low so the price goes through the roof and they make a lot more money without having to invest any more. Well that's gouging their customers the way I see it.
For those that think this is about fighting among ourselves I don't know where you get that. Yes I get ticked off at people who buy up everything Walmart puts on the shelf and sell it for 4 times the price on a gun auction board. But I don't think those people are even shooters. They're just gougers and it's generally illegal to do that for many things in times of crisis. How long would people sit still if they were buying up gasoline and selling it for $14 a gallon? What they do stinks. They aren't sportsmen. They're pirates.
I could definitely shoot more than I do for now. But how long would it last? I went to a site where I've bought ammo for years and they want $70 for a brick of Winchester 555. I'll never pay that. Never. It's highway robbery. I was buying that ammo for $12 a brick a year ago. $12. Winchester could have opened a new factory by now but they don't need to as long as they're making money like that. It's a disgrace. They don't care about their customers that have been supporting them for generations. They only care about making a quick buck. Well they're going to kill the sport of shooting. Only the very rich will be able to afford it. I'm not exactly poor but I wouldn't pay that much no matter what. I'll make that 15,000 rounds I have last me the rest of my life first. I don't need to plink or practice target shooting. I just need enough to control pests. I have all the centerfire and shotgun ammo I will need in my lifetime too. So don't tell me about stocking up. I come on here and say what I think about the situation and how bad the companies are acting and I get attacked for my views and by people thinking they can tell me what to do. I'd bet I have as much ammo as 99% of the people on this board. But again I won't be shooting it for target practice or for fun. I'll keep it until I really need to shoot it and I won't have to buy another round as long as I live. And I won't need all the .22 rifles I have either. I'll keep one bolt action and one semi-auto and sell the rest. I won't go to another competition. And when the fad of shooting is over companies like Winchester can go under wondering where their customer base went. Same goes for Federal. I have found some CCI so I may buy some of their stuff. But there hasn't been as much as there should have been.
Those companies should have been loyal to their customers and built new factories. They would use the capacity eventually no matter what. When old equipment breaks down they would have new equipment to take it's place. But no, they had to stick it to us. That's a 2 way street.
This is the second great panic. Are they stupid or are they just greedy? I'm thinking greedy. They could have built more capacity. They didn't. To heck with them.
BTW I've been voting for a very long time. So don't assUme you know that I don't.
It isn't magic. It's investment. And why would their projections be so wrong? I knew to stock up. Why don't the manufacturers know to increase capacity? People here blasted me for not stocking up (even though I did) and now others are saying not to expect the same forward thinking from the companies. That's not right. And if Winchester, Federal, Remington, Eley, CCI, etc. all increased capacity it would easily triple the previous capacity of the whole industry.
No. Not at all. It's the people that ran out and bought up ammo because they thought it would become illegal that are hoarders. If you bought ammo when the prices were down that just makes you smart.
The rimfire situation hasn't gotten one bit better where I live. I said I could find centerfire ammo. It's rimfire that has disappeared and that's what most people use for practicing lots and lots. I've went through periods where I shot 7.62 x 39 or .223 or 30.06 or 12 ga. or .45 ACP or 9mm etc. almost all the time. But it's not the same as having cheap rimfire ammo available to practice.
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jerkface11
Member
Can we get a ban on threads whining about "hoarders and gougers"?
peacemaker45
Member
What have you got? If you decide to sell something interesting for a good deal, let me know.
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Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2
I was going to post a nice response on this that covered the realities of business forecasting and investment in plant and equipment...but I don't think you want to hear it. I think you just want to rail against everything...so I won't get in the way.
You're right...they're all out to get you.
You're right...they're all out to get you.
jcwit
member
The gentleman is not whining, he is complaining, which most of us do about something, whether it be ammo, gas, the price of milk, or whatever. Might even be how your steak was grilled at the restaurant.
Whining is a immature, childish, form of complaining.
Bobson
Member
I get the frustration, but...
Also, I've done more shooting so far in 2013 than in 2011 and 2012 combined, and I haven't bought a single box of flipped or gouged ammo, and I don't reload. The ammo is out there and certainly doesn't require getting to Walmart at zero-dark-thirty. I think the last time I bought ammo at WalMart was close to a year ago.
Anyone who claims to have been keeping ammo companies in business for the last 50 years, and didn't learn his lesson from the last time this happened, has nobody to blame but himself. So yes, I completely understand the frustration, but I'm not sharing in it.
This is probably the dumbest thing I've ever read.
Also, I've done more shooting so far in 2013 than in 2011 and 2012 combined, and I haven't bought a single box of flipped or gouged ammo, and I don't reload. The ammo is out there and certainly doesn't require getting to Walmart at zero-dark-thirty. I think the last time I bought ammo at WalMart was close to a year ago.
Anyone who claims to have been keeping ammo companies in business for the last 50 years, and didn't learn his lesson from the last time this happened, has nobody to blame but himself. So yes, I completely understand the frustration, but I'm not sharing in it.
Obviously you didn't, or you wouldn't be raging in this thread. You may have "stocked up" compared to how much I shoot, but obviously not according to how much you shoot. Again, you have nobody to blame but yourself.
gamestalker
member
Not only is it an incorrect assumption that it's the falt of other gun owner's regarding ammuntion availabilty problems, but it's also offending to those of us who have paid attention to important political agenda's, as should every American who cares at all about our constitutional rights and freedoms. Aside from contacting our representives and demanding they do their jobs in this respect, many of us also prepared for what we saw coming, and stocked up on ammunition. Some might label that as hoarding, I prefer to call it preparation.
Now, would you like some cheese with that whine, or is it wine?
And let me know what firearms you have for sale for cheap, I'm certainly interested in a good deal.
GS
Now, would you like some cheese with that whine, or is it wine?
And let me know what firearms you have for sale for cheap, I'm certainly interested in a good deal.
GS
Then you didn't lose a year to the hoarders and gougers, you lost a year to your own fear of running out of ammunition.
If you are afraid to shoot for fear of running out then you didn't stock up effectively. The whole point of stocking up is so that you don't have to be dependent on fluctuations in ammo availability and price. Clearly you are still HEAVILY dependent on fluctuations in ammo availability and price or you wouldn't be complaining about not shooting for the past year. Which means that while you may have a lot of ammo, you didn't effectively stock up.
You can't have it both ways. If you have enough to last you the rest of your life then you have nobody to blame but yourself if you're not shooting. If you have so little that you haven't shot for the past year out of fear of running out then you should have stocked up when you had the chance. As you correctly point out, this isn't the first shortage we've had so you had ample evidence of the need to stock up.
They are doing something about it, but they have to think about their long term survival. You clearly understand about TEMPORARY fluctuations in demand because you talk about fads and that's exactly what a fad is.
Ammo companies can increase production by adding more shifts, but if they want to do more than that, they would have to add floor space and equipment. If, as you say, this is a fad, a temporary spike in demand, then that floorspace and equipment will be sitting idle when the demand spike ends. Businesses who make large permanent investments to deal with temporary problems don't stay in business long.
thump_rrr
Member
Everyone who was trying to save every last penny by buying their ammo at places like Walmart are the ones to blame.
I have only been shooting for less than 3 years now.
When I started I had nothing and didn't really know anybody who was a shooter.
By coming on forums like THR I learnt quickly that if I wanted to shoot a lot I needed to reload.
In the past 2 years by saving up my money and looking for deals I managed to buy 3 presses a bunch of reloading gear and made friends st all 3 of my local gun stores.
Instead of walking in and seeing that store A was $1.00 more expensive in primers than store B. I saw that store A has Lapua and Sierra and store B has Berger and Hornady while store C has pistol bullets much cheaper than stores A and B.
I began purchasing all of my components locally.
Since then I have asked stores to find me various products and for the most parts with a little patience on my part they have found me what I needed.
Just yesterday this box came in for me.
I ordered it on March the 6th so it took a little over 6 months but I now have it.
You can clearly see the 8/20/2013 production date on it.
By calling around for powders to all 3 stores I have been shooting all summer and still have been able to amass quite a bit of powder.
This isn't all of it.
The same goes for
Bullets and primers. I never overpaid and I never went without.
So the bottom line is if you don't support your local shops and go in there and make yourself known to the people you have yourself to blame for the lack of ammo or components.
I have only been shooting for less than 3 years now.
When I started I had nothing and didn't really know anybody who was a shooter.
By coming on forums like THR I learnt quickly that if I wanted to shoot a lot I needed to reload.
In the past 2 years by saving up my money and looking for deals I managed to buy 3 presses a bunch of reloading gear and made friends st all 3 of my local gun stores.
Instead of walking in and seeing that store A was $1.00 more expensive in primers than store B. I saw that store A has Lapua and Sierra and store B has Berger and Hornady while store C has pistol bullets much cheaper than stores A and B.
I began purchasing all of my components locally.
Since then I have asked stores to find me various products and for the most parts with a little patience on my part they have found me what I needed.
Just yesterday this box came in for me.
I ordered it on March the 6th so it took a little over 6 months but I now have it.
You can clearly see the 8/20/2013 production date on it.
By calling around for powders to all 3 stores I have been shooting all summer and still have been able to amass quite a bit of powder.
This isn't all of it.
The same goes for
Bullets and primers. I never overpaid and I never went without.
So the bottom line is if you don't support your local shops and go in there and make yourself known to the people you have yourself to blame for the lack of ammo or components.
That is right. Mr Obama getting re-elected was probably a given and I am sure the ammunition companies planned for that event.
What they could not plan for was Sandy Hook and the actions of both sides as a result of that tragedy.
So, if the ammunition companies wished to incrementally increase production capacity, that takes time. You just do not run down to Wal Mart and buy an ammunition loading machine. Also, center fire loading machines are different from rim fire loading machines.
It is either Remington or CCI that has announce a new production facility. It will not go on line for a while yet. It takes time to increase manufacturing capacity. My wife and I are adding a couple simple pole barns to our farm and this simple project has been delayed for 6 months due to weather. You think a major corporation gets an exemption from bad weather when building a new plant?
Then, what happens when the bubble bursts and the ammunition manufacturers are stuck with all this excess capacity. Sales will return to near former levels. The ammunition manufacturers will have idle capacity they will probably be paying interest and taxes on. Not smart business sense.
I believe the ammunition companies have not raised prices except to account for the increase in material costs. The gouging is a result of the distributors, resellers, retail outlets and scalpers. Again, give the manufacturers a break.
I agree that we as shooting enthusiasts are in a frustrating situation. It will get better. Grousing about it will not help any.
JFtheGR8
Member
The ammo companies will be fine because they know this is temporary. They haven't opened new operations that they'll just have to close and take a huge loss when the "fad" dies down. One things for sure though and that is that this guy will definitely be stocking up on ammo from now on. When I see it (calibers I shoot that is) at a good price I'm gonna buy it whether I'm in need or not. After this panic dies down ammo will be a very hot commodity again someday I'm sure. I won't be on the sidelines wishing I had some ever again.
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Posted from Thehighroad.org App for Android
Queen_of_Thunder
member
So lets get this straight. You are blaming others because you can't get rimfire ammo. See, I don't understand this. Like you I haven't been able to spend time at the range like I did last year in fact I've shot less than 500 rounds so far this year. I normally spent 4 days a week at the range with matches every weekend.
I too got caught short ammo wise. Thing is I didn't blame other people just like a number of others in the same situation have. We engaged in the great ammo hunt of 2013 and in my case I can now say that I have enough ammo to shoot one match and have one practice session per month now. Over time I expect to get back to a full schedule providing the ammo supply continues to improve.
Now if I had decided to whine and blame others for my predicament I would still be without ammo today some 9 months later. I instead decided to find the ammo I needed. It was rough waiting outside in the winter weather for 2 hours before Academy opened up but I did and the result of that waiting resulted in a nice little cache of ammo. A little time, a little effort and a little sacrifice and I'm in much better shape ammo wise today.
xxjumbojimboxx
Member
You guys are missing the point... yes... were ALL hoarding... no one is not guilty of stashing away some things right now... but... now! We all have stockpiles.... and were ready!
Black Butte
Member
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2008
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- 888
Somebody didn't plan ahead. Everyone knew that this would happen if Obama got a second term.
They had time. The first panic was 2008. And I lost time because I didn't want to find that I had a bunch of guns with nothing to put in them no matter what. There are times when we NEED ammo. I chose not to shoot what I had because I didn't know if things would get worse. And after the Naval Yard thing I'm still not sure about that. The ammo companies could have increased production. No they don't buy machines at Walmart. But they do buy equipment somewhere. It doesn't just appear by magic. Just the fact that Obama might have been reelected was enough reason to increase capacity. And those think this isn't about hoarding are just silly. What else caused the shortage? New shooters had something to do with it but there wasn't ammo for them to buy when the real panic hit. I bought my ammo right after the election and before the Christmas rush so I beat the Sandy Hook disaster. But 15,000 rounds isn't enough to last a lifetime and after Sandy Hook it was clear that shooting up my stash was a bad idea. These people that claim there is ammo out there should point out where it is. Sure I could have bought plenty if I wanted to pay scalper's prices. But screw that. I'll do without first. That's the point of this thread. And the person who said that the fad mentality was "stupid" just proved how little they know about economics. My guess is they own all sorts of gimmicky toys that are no longer valuable like MP3 players and comic books. I bought a Mickey Mantle signed baseball for cheap recently. I'll be glad to sell it for 2001 prices if they want it. I bought it because I wanted it, not because it was worth something or going up in price. I didn't day trade and I didn't buy no money down real estate either. Fads are gimmicks for con men. Or maybe he is sitting on 200,000 rounds of ammo thinking the price will go up some more. I didn't buy at ridiculous prices and I didn't sell at those prices either. I certainly could have. But I know when a fad is going down the tubes. Try buying a true SUV these days.
And jumbojim I haven't stocked up on anything since Sandy Hook. There was nothing to buy that I really needed. I only need more rimfire and it can't be found where I live unless you want to pay 4X the usual price. And I don't want to do that.
Somebody didn't read the thread. I bet I have more ammo than you. I stocked up before the first Obama election in fact. Again I have enough ammo to last the rest of my life for every gun I own except my .22's. I "only" have 15,000 rounds of that. I got a nickel that says you didn't stock up that much. I can post a photo of what's in my safe and elsewhere if you like.
Bobson
Member
...really?
You have enough ammo to last the rest of your life, for every single gun you own except for 22LR - and you're ready to sell all your guns? That's roughly the same as a toddler throwing a fit because his banana split only has one cherry instead of two. Boo hoo.
What makes you so sure you'll live long enough to use up that 22LR anyway? There's certainly no guarantee. Don't sweat the small stuff, friend. Can't believe a man who's over fifty years old needs to have this explained to him.
Arkansas Paul
Member
I think I'll start a thread saying I'm going to sell every gun I have cheap because I can't buy ammo. Then I'll brag about how much ammo I have.
Freakin brilliant I tell ya.
Freakin brilliant I tell ya.
evan price
Member
Meh, another thread devoted to complaining about failing to prepare. Oh wait, DID prepare but would rather hoard and complain than shoot.
This is a temporary situation. Remchester are not going to start a new plant for a strictly temporary issue. Production is scheduled years in advance.
This is a temporary situation. Remchester are not going to start a new plant for a strictly temporary issue. Production is scheduled years in advance.
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Arkansas Paul
Member
Oh, and here are some places with .22 lr in stock, ready to ship. May be a few dollars more than you want to pay, but it's out there.
http://www.slickguns.com/category/ammo?caliber=3
http://www.slickguns.com/category/ammo?caliber=3
Arkansas Paul
Member
Actually evan, it started out complaining about failing to prepare and turned into a bragging session about how well prepared he is.
Another true life case of "Failure To Read The Thread". It's a sad story of how the education system doesn't prepare people to actually read.
Yes folks. That's a cut and paste copy of what I "actually said". I'm ticked off at the ammo companies because they don't upgrade their rimfire production to meet the demand. We've supported them and they have failed us miserably.
But I don't blame you. I blame your 4th grade teacher for letting you get by with a "social promotion". Better to pass you on with your friends than suffer the stigma of getting left behind.
So another day sets on "Days Of Our Lies" where the truth gets mangled just to make your ego feel good. Despite your moaning I have a right to my opinion. And you will never change it because, well it wouldn't be the "high road" if I pointed that out. So instead I'll just wave goodbye content in the knowledge that I don't have to listen to you cry about someone else. It must be so sad to have nothing better to do than to distort someone else's views. Sad, sad, sad. I know. You can be the "Sad Pack" but I'm sure you'd miss the reference.
Yes I might be here letting off steam complaining about the way the ammo companies have failed us but at least I'm not lost in Ego Land.
Yes folks. That's a cut and paste copy of what I "actually said". I'm ticked off at the ammo companies because they don't upgrade their rimfire production to meet the demand. We've supported them and they have failed us miserably.
But I don't blame you. I blame your 4th grade teacher for letting you get by with a "social promotion". Better to pass you on with your friends than suffer the stigma of getting left behind.
So another day sets on "Days Of Our Lies" where the truth gets mangled just to make your ego feel good. Despite your moaning I have a right to my opinion. And you will never change it because, well it wouldn't be the "high road" if I pointed that out. So instead I'll just wave goodbye content in the knowledge that I don't have to listen to you cry about someone else. It must be so sad to have nothing better to do than to distort someone else's views. Sad, sad, sad. I know. You can be the "Sad Pack" but I'm sure you'd miss the reference.
Yes I might be here letting off steam complaining about the way the ammo companies have failed us but at least I'm not lost in Ego Land.
leadcounsel
member
I get tired of people who didn't think ahead and plan for XYZ complaining about those who did plan ahead.
The writing for this has been on the wall since easily 2008. We've had peaks and valleys. Anyone who didn't prepare for these spikes in demand and supply has nobody to blame but himself.
If you like to do XYZ activity and it's clear the government is going to regulate it, you'd be wise to stock up.
I've purchased my cheapest ammo and guns between 2008 and 2013. And I work 80+ hours per week.
When people get 'ticked off' at capitalism, I think they need a lesson in history and economics. Reminds me of the people who didn't plan ahead when disaster strikes, and they have to stand in lines to get water, food, and fuel...
As much as you'd like to BLAME the ammo companies for not ramping up production, that's an unfair argument. A company would need to invest a ton of capital in extra equipment, space, and employees for an increase in production and that may actually cost them money.
PLAN AHEAD folks. The writing is literally on the wall.
Well you have more .22LR than me, so YOU must be a hoarder and part of the problem!
The writing for this has been on the wall since easily 2008. We've had peaks and valleys. Anyone who didn't prepare for these spikes in demand and supply has nobody to blame but himself.
If you like to do XYZ activity and it's clear the government is going to regulate it, you'd be wise to stock up.
Okay, then here's an idea. How about stocking up on what you CAN get now, so you don't run into a problem in the future with centerfire ammo shortages.
I've purchased my cheapest ammo and guns between 2008 and 2013. And I work 80+ hours per week.
When people get 'ticked off' at capitalism, I think they need a lesson in history and economics. Reminds me of the people who didn't plan ahead when disaster strikes, and they have to stand in lines to get water, food, and fuel...
As much as you'd like to BLAME the ammo companies for not ramping up production, that's an unfair argument. A company would need to invest a ton of capital in extra equipment, space, and employees for an increase in production and that may actually cost them money.
PLAN AHEAD folks. The writing is literally on the wall.
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