Annealing

[Highland Lofts]

I am thinking about picking up an annealing machine.
What's your go to annealed?
Never used one, but think it would be beneficial.
Do you annealing before resizing or after resizing?
I looked on Amazon and they had some for around $300.

I will be converting 223 in to 300 Blackout, would I annealing before resizing or after I resize the cases.


On my regulat cases, do you annealing after every shot,
Annealing every other shot,
Or after a few shots.

 

[Chuck R.]

I use an older BC1000 annealer for which I have multiple wheels.

I always anneal before sizing or case forming.

I form 300 Blackout and 350 Rem Mag (similar process). I cut using a mini chop saw and jig, then anneal before forming.

I anneal every time prior to loading, but I keep about 400 rds of everything I shoot, so I do it in lots to save setup time on the annealer.

 

[Kaldor]

I had an Annealeez, it is a great machine at a good price point. I still recommend them. They work very well up to about 30-06 in length. I had issues with speed and hot spots with 300 PRC, which required alot of babysitting. Which is why I sold it.

I just bought an AGS as I wanted something I could run dual torches on as well as have some automation so I could just fill my case feeder and let it run while I do other things. Build quality is good on it and the testing I did prior to starting the modifications for automation it worked quite well.

If you are cutting down 223 for 300 BO, I recommend cutting first, then annealing, then sizing, then trimming. Annealing will soften the brass, and with the HF cutter I used, made it a bit gummy for lack of a better word.

I use an older BC1000 annealer for which I have multiple wheels.

I always anneal before sizing or case forming.

I form 300 Blackout and 350 Rem Mag (similar process). I cut using a mini chop saw and jig, then anneal before forming.

I anneal every time prior to loading, but I keep about 400 rds of everything I shoot, so I do it in lots to save setup time on the annealer.

Ive been trying to find a used Benchsource for the last couple of years, but they are few and far between and get snatched up almost immediately. That BC1000 would be a nice annealer to setup for use with a case feeder as well.

 

[BBarn]

I use one made by Burstfire. Like many, it uses a propane flame as the heat source. Annealers using propane are very dependent upon the user for any type of consistency. The level of flame and it's impingement on the case will greatly affect the degree of annealing, and unless testing is performed on the brass after annealing, you don't really know how much the process affects the brass hardness and structure. I anneal before sizing.

I do it simply to increase the life of case necks and make sizing a bit easier, and it does seem to accomplish that. But I can't claim any improvements in case neck tension or finished cartridge accuracy as a result of my annealing efforts.

My Burstfire annealer also has four motors on top that accept case prep accessories. I use that feature as much or more than the annealing portion of the machine.

 

[dgod]

I have an ‘AnnealEZ’, I live it. I anneal all of my rifle cases, from 5.56 to 300 WINMAG, ALL get annealed, you do not have to anneal after a shot, you need to anneal any time before you load…

Good Luck
DG

 

[Blue68f100]

I have the Giraud annealer , only bad thing is loading the hopper . Once loaded it trucks right alone with no problems.

http://www.giraudtool.com/giraud-cartridge-case-annealer.html

 

[Varminterror]

I am thinking about picking up an annealing machine.
What's your go to annealed?

Dillon Case Feeder + AMP Mate + AMP = Glorious Perfection

My current set up is fully automated, and it's wonderful. I dump a bucket of brass into the Dillon hopper, power up, and it runs itself.

My first annealing experience was ~25yrs ago, using a torch in the dark and tipping cases over in a pan of water. I've done the deep-socket and hand drill thing too. My first automated annealer was a few years later which I built after seeing a Benchsource. I built an Annealeez clone, then bought a Giraud to feed a homemade induction coil like an Annie, tried salt bath and lead pot annealing, then eventually bought my AMP. If things go according to plan, I'll buy another AMP this summer.

Never used one, but think it would be beneficial.

There are a lot of claims about annealing and a lot of debate, but after 25 years, I know annealing enables 2 things, and everything else is largely conjecture:

1) Enables case forming (and resetting of neck/shoulder work hardening after case forming)

2) Resets case hardness to improve consistency between sequential firings of cases (aka, 12x fired brass will behave more like virgin brass if annealed)

There's a bit of conjecture about brass life improvement, and a LOT more about improved precision. I generally see most brands of brass start misbehaving pretty significantly by 7-8 firings (some as low as 5x), meaning the seating pressure has increased substantially, springback is becoming an obvious issue for sizing, and neck tension has gone sideways, and most casual shooters aren't taking precision rifle brass to 8 firings anyway, so it becomes kind of moot for most folks. But certainly, if you're taking brass past 10 firings (non-magnums), shoulder splits will eventually be part of your life unless you anneal. Precision, in general, isn't notably improved within a given lot of brass at a given firing - as I KNOW I can load firing-sorted brass to single digit SD's and shoot groups in the 1's and 2's, as small as I ever shoot with anything up to around 7-8 firings. Some might make it farther, and again, some might slip by 5. But if I'm loading mixed firing-count brass, I also KNOW that once fired brass does not respond the same as 10x fired brass when sized and seated, so primary ignition becomes variable, and results on target and across the chrony become variable. Annealing can bring that mixed-lot of brass to a common state (*Note - this is NOT meant to be read as mixed headstamp brass, or mixed lots, but ONLY referring to unification of brass from the same lot, same brand, same headstamp brass which has been fired a different number of times).

Do you annealing before resizing or after resizing?

Anneal before sizing and expanding.

I will be converting 223 in to 300 Blackout, would I annealing before resizing or after I resize the cases.

Anneal before AND after case forming, before final sizing and expanding.

On my regulat cases, do you annealing after every shot,
Annealing every other shot,
Or after a few shots.

I anneal every firing. Watching seating pressure on a 21st Century Hydropress, I see changes in seating pressure with every firing, meaning my neck tension and bullet grip by the neck are changing every firing if I don't anneal every firing - meaning my primary ignition is changing with every firing if I don't anneal.

 

[AJC1]

I'm a simple guy, I use annealing to prevent cracks in 30-30 mostly from being way oversized. In the spirit of that alone I believe it gives better survival to cases being fireformed.

 

[Walkalong]

My first annealing experience was ~

40 years ago, and I too did the torch and knock it over in the pan of water. We’ve come a long way since then.

 

[JmacD]

I know a guy that has one from ep integrations. There are pros and cons to every one I’ve seen; the ones I’ve liked the best had $$$ shaped cons… A annealer is… well, It’s on the list of things to do. For now it’s the pan and torch method… I’m following on to see others ideas.

 

[N555]

I am thinking about picking up an annealing machine.
What's your go to annealed?
Never used one, but think it would be beneficial.
Do you annealing before resizing or after resizing?
I looked on Amazon and they had some for around $300.

I will be converting 223 in to 300 Blackout, would I annealing before resizing or after I resize the cases.


On my regulat cases, do you annealing after every shot,
Annealing every other shot,
Or after a few shots.

The way I cut down brass to turn into shorter brass is:
First I cut it down. Semi hard brass cuts easier and cleaner. Then anneal it dead soft and then form the new neck and shoulder. Trim to finish length.
I anneal them every shot, heat to dead soft, work the harness back into it with a standard FL sizer die with ball expander.

 

[kmw1954]

Still using the open flame and cordless screwdriver method. May not be the perfect way but I do see improvements over not doing it. I admit I also drop them into a pan of cold water. This is not to aide in the annealing process but to aide in my own self preservation. I have a bad habit of touching, bumping, and getting burned by hot things. Like hot brass plumbing joints, hot pan handles on the stove, hot pistol brass down the shirt!

 

[HKGuns]

 

[sparkyv]

Me too, but I don't dunk in water.

Still using the open flame and cordless screwdriver method. May not be the perfect way but I do see improvements over not doing it.

 

[JSneezy]

I went with the Ugly Annealer. At the time I bought it, it seemed like everything else out there had plastic feed wheels, and a lot of complaints of melting wheels from people annealing shorter cases like 300 Blackout. I do think the Annealeez and maybe the Burstfire have moved to metal wheels since then. I've heard nothing but good about both, and haven't had any issues with the Ugly that weren't my own doing.

 

[chevrofreak]

Dillon Case Feeder + AMP Mate + AMP = Glorious Perfection

Yes.

 

[41 Mag]

I have just purchased the AGS unit V3.1. I looked around and it was #1 within my budget and #2 within the compact size I was looking for. I ordered it last Saturday from the AGS site, and it was here on Wednesday, and there was a bit of a discount being offered due to the Shot Show. It was a bit cheaper and got here faster than what Amazon could offer.

It comes with small collars for different diameter brass which really doesn't bother me. Set up is quick, find the proper collar diameter for the case and drop them in. It doesn't have automated case feeding but it is simple to knock out a couple hundred cases in a short time. The case feeder would be great, but not a deal breaker. I have enough cases for my wildcats that once I run through them I probably won't need it for them for several years. It will however be used on other batches of .243, 25-06, and several other calibers in those ranges.

I had initially wanted one in order to run the batches of wildcat calibers through to restore the shoulders and necks after several firings. I had been simply using the torch and socket for small 20-40rd batches. What prompted me to get one however was forming the new 360 BKHMR cases due to a lack of factory and mainly because my wildcat ammo was down to only a dozen or so loaded rounds.

It took me about 6 cases to figure out the heat and height. I also have an extension hose which lets me run off a 20# cylinder. Once I had the torch set I didn't monk with it, I used the valve on the tank to turn the gas on and off. The unit came set to 50% on the speed dial and I just left it there and regulated the valve on the torch until it heated up enough for the 30-30 cases. It ran just fine for the first 30 or so cases then one got hung up and roasted. I chalked it up to the rim having an issue and moved on. All of the brass is range brass anyway so not a huge deal. After getting everything set up, I trimmed a couple hundred to the proper length using a HF saw and went to town. It ran through all of them with no issue and yes they are still HOT in the pan after they drop in.

For me and my purposes, this little unit is just fine. It is far easier than the socket method, it hits the same area on each case, and is very controllable. I set it up over a small cake pan using some scrap aluminum1/8" strips about an 2" wide just to support it so the cases could drop into the pan. It is plenty high for them to drop out even for a 300 RUM case, but this one doesn't come with the catch pan as the other model does. I just wanted the extra inch or so height.

Is it better or worse than any of the others out there, MEH, it works for the purposes I need and is compact and doesn't take up much room on the work table or on a shelf. To me that's what I needed.

 

[Big Wes]

I have / use a Burstfire Annealer. works great, reasonably priced I thought.
burstfireguns.com

 

[JEBruns]

I went with the Ugly Annealer. At the time I bought it, it seemed like everything else out there had plastic feed wheels, and a lot of complaints of melting wheels from people annealing shorter cases like 300 Blackout. I do think the Annealeez and maybe the Burstfire have moved to metal wheels since then. I've heard nothing but good about both, and haven't had any issues with the Ugly that weren't my own doing.

I also have the Ugly annealer. Had it a couple of years now, I guess. Has been trouble free. Comes with everything you need for multiple size cases. I always anneal first.

 

[TRAILS-END]

I've been using a Burst Fire also. Annealing does keep my 44-40 cases from spitting.

 

[Walkalong]

Yes.

That’s just seriously cool

 

[rdnktrkr]

I did the socket/screwdriver for a while, then looking around after getting my 3D printer I found the files to print out everything and a friend and I built a couple and have made a few modifications to smooth them out. IF I build another, I will make a couple of modifications to the case, but I think that is all I would do, it needs 2 different depth pans, one for 6.5gr sized cases and another for 30-06 sized cases.
This is a picture I took while setting it up, I can't figure out how to D/L a video of it working (MP4 format). I cut my short pan shorter than what was on the instructions for running 6.5gr and then cut a deeper pan for 30-06 and 270, now I have another pan cut for 6.5CM sized cases that can do 223 but the shorter pan seems to have fewer issues. The main issue is cases sometimes "bounce" and stand up instead of lying flat (about 1 every hopper if not setup correctly). I use Templaq paint and keep a log of what setting is used for each caliber.

 

[Kaldor]

I have just purchased the AGS unit V3.1. I looked around and it was #1 within my budget and #2 within the compact size I was looking for. I ordered it last Saturday from the AGS site, and it was here on Wednesday, and there was a bit of a discount being offered due to the Shot Show. It was a bit cheaper and got here faster than what Amazon could offer.

It comes with small collars for different diameter brass which really doesn't bother me. Set up is quick, find the proper collar diameter for the case and drop them in. It doesn't have automated case feeding but it is simple to knock out a couple hundred cases in a short time. The case feeder would be great, but not a deal breaker. I have enough cases for my wildcats that once I run through them I probably won't need it for them for several years. It will however be used on other batches of .243, 25-06, and several other calibers in those ranges.

I had initially wanted one in order to run the batches of wildcat calibers through to restore the shoulders and necks after several firings. I had been simply using the torch and socket for small 20-40rd batches. What prompted me to get one however was forming the new 360 BKHMR cases due to a lack of factory and mainly because my wildcat ammo was down to only a dozen or so loaded rounds.

It took me about 6 cases to figure out the heat and height. I also have an extension hose which lets me run off a 20# cylinder. Once I had the torch set I didn't monk with it, I used the valve on the tank to turn the gas on and off. The unit came set to 50% on the speed dial and I just left it there and regulated the valve on the torch until it heated up enough for the 30-30 cases. It ran just fine for the first 30 or so cases then one got hung up and roasted. I chalked it up to the rim having an issue and moved on. All of the brass is range brass anyway so not a huge deal. After getting everything set up, I trimmed a couple hundred to the proper length using a HF saw and went to town. It ran through all of them with no issue and yes they are still HOT in the pan after they drop in.

For me and my purposes, this little unit is just fine. It is far easier than the socket method, it hits the same area on each case, and is very controllable. I set it up over a small cake pan using some scrap aluminum1/8" strips about an 2" wide just to support it so the cases could drop into the pan. It is plenty high for them to drop out even for a 300 RUM case, but this one doesn't come with the catch pan as the other model does. I just wanted the extra inch or so height.

Is it better or worse than any of the others out there, MEH, it works for the purposes I need and is compact and doesn't take up much room on the work table or on a shelf. To me that's what I needed.

Pretty much the same reason I bought the AGS. I wanted dual torches and this is about the only reasonably priced available options out there.
I did some quick testing just for function and it will work fine. Im really interested to see the time savings with dual torches.
I will automate mine with a case feeder as when I do anneal its in 1000s of pieces at a time as I only process brass once a year. Im currently working on that.

 

[MarshallDodge]

I have an Annie inductive annealer and it works for my needs.

Like others, headspace and seating pressure are much more consistent after annealing.

 

[41 Mag]

I will automate mine with a case feeder as when I do anneal its in 1000s of pieces at a time as I only process brass once a year. Im currently working on that.

If you get the feeder set up be sure to post up the "how to". Might be something that could come in handy later.