Any American citizens of hispanic/latino background here?

[Frog48]

I wouldnt worry about it too much. Raise him to wear Polo shirts and listening to country music, he'll be fine. If he grows up idolizing Pancho Villa and listening to mariachi and rap music... yeah, he might attract some attention from the local rednecks.

Also, raise him to value education (the same advice goes to all parents and children, regardless of race/ethnicity). Trust me, I dont think he'll be too offended being called "college boy" by the local uneducated hillbillies.

 

[beerslurpy]

Stop trying to construe this as a racial thing. I have no beef with hispanics, spanish speakers or anything of the sort. Most people in this country dont. People of all races, including hispanics, are ticked off.

People in this country are pissed because about 20 million of Mexico's problems have been dumped on our doorstep like sack full of rats. It would be like if we evacuated Katrina to Montreal and told them to enjoy the free health care and not come back. Now imagine repeating that evacuation several thousand times to get an idea of the scale of the problem Mexico has foisted upon us.

The illegals are being used and abused by businesses in this country and we are paying for all the free social services they consume. All the politicians see is piles of donations from business and piles of votes from the next generation of food stamp leeches.

 

[Frog48]

People in this country are pissed because about 20 million of Mexico's problems have been dumped on our doorstep like sack full of rats.

This is true. Its not the respectable, upstanding Mexican citizens that are jumping the border. The decent people put forth the effort to migrate legally.

Its the poor and criminal elements that view America as a place they can exploit.

 

[zamboxl]

I am a Cuban American and by that i mean born in Cuba came here legally, and became a citizen like my father, and mother, and the rest of my relatives we flew here, so technically i am cuban american, but as far as i am concern i am a U.S Citizen and that is all i give a damn about. If a hostile force invades Cuba i would not go over and fight to defend it, if a hostile force, any hostile force sets foot on American soil i will be in the front lines defending my country, so help me god.

That being said it does concern me sometimes whats going on, on one hand i worry about some of those crazy rednecks that might use a cituation to push their own racist agenda forward. On the other hand that video shown earlier, and the protest that mexicans had holding a mexican flag on U.S soil made me and my family sick, and so do the damn exile cubans down in dade county when they do their little shows, it show to me that they have no regard for the American way of life and the laws here.

The only regard they have is to their own bias agenda and to me that makes them no better than the racist bastards that do not deferenciate, and treat legals and illegals alike, when at one point their family also where legal imigrants. I apologise for the long post, but had to get the feelings off my chest.

 

[Cousin Mike]

Scromp - you're a good person to adopt a child. You have a lot of challenges ahead adopting a child of a different race, and you seem to know that. Break every nose you have to - but hopefully you never will.

I dunno about all that country music, though.

And FWIW, I haven't met too many black folks who have a problem with latino's... There's a saying I wont repeat verbatim here - but it's basically stating that we're the same people, we just speak a different language. I guess that's why lionking's experience surprises me - every Perto Rican / Cuban I've ever met is either part black, or just a black dude who speaks spanish. Hell, half of those countries are black.

I won't speak for the ignorant, but not everyone knows their own history.

Grant48 - quote from my girlfriend who I've been reading this thread to, re:

The Mexican culture in general brings up men to treat women like objects, treating them like dirt. Wife-beating is an accepted thing in most hispanic cultures. Alot of what those people accept as "normal" would be considered sexual harassment and assault by American standards.

Her reply:

"Yeah, they act like they've never seen a ******* woman before... it's almost predatory."

It's a pretty serious problem. My girlfriend is like your friend - a very attractive latina woman and 100% American. The illegal guys HATE seeing her with "el negrito". I'm almost positive it's going to come to something physical one day with one of these guys. The level of disrespect they show is astounding.

It pisses me off on an even more personal level as an American. People across the world think we are the rudest people on earth. It's obvious they've never met an illegal alien tough guy from Mexico.

 

[bowline]

The problem isn't hispanic Americans, the problem is illegal immigrants.
If they are scofflaw enough to jump the border illegally, there is a good chance they'll ignore other little details of the law.
If they come to this country not to become Americans, but to extend Mexico... If they reject American values... if they profess allegiance to a foreign power...
If it does come to a 'war' against illegal immigrants, I'll have Cousin Mike at one shoulder, and zamboxl at the other - defending America.
'American' isn't a race, it's a common system of values and ideals. Attempting to frame the discussion as a racial question is just a bait-n-switch.

 

[lionking]

just to put a fair perspective on what I already said..

there was a woman who worked with my employment for a while.She came from Venezuela,was a nurse there and became a secretary here for almost minimum wage.
She didnt speak any english at all but after working all day would go at night to class to learn english and after a while we communicated good.

there is a young guy at work who won a raffle to come to America from Cuba.He stayed late after work for free to learn my trade and now he he's been promoted and is doing great.

 

[lionking]

cousin mike I saw the protest,it was right down the road from me on US1 and what I said is the sad truth.There was the whites who were already racist against everybody,the blacks who were racist against the hispanics because they felt they stole opportunity and jobs....and the hispanics who band together because of culture.

on a individual level people will be friendly but too many times racisim rears a ugly head.Do I feel hatred to anybody ? no, but like I said its only natural that if you are not among people you feel common with you start to feel like an outsider like I do now in Miami and Im leaving this place soon because of that and because finacially Ill be better somewhere else.

 

[zamboxl]

lionking i dont blame you for wanting to get out of Miami i am Of Cuban decent, and i stay out of Dade county as much as possible, H$11 everytime i go down there when i get back to Broward my blood pressure is through the roof, and i am only 23 years old i should not be having high blood pressure till i am 50 lol.

Edit::::: lionking did you see the protest/celebration when they though Castro was dead? Sure Castro is not a God sent, but to be out on the streets celebrating someones death like that is unspeakable. Whatching that reminded me of Somalia, and watching Somalians celebrate by draging the bodies of our soldiers through the streets.

 

[Cousin Mike]

No doubt that what you saw was real - I'm only 26 years old though. I vaguely remember the Elian Gonzales debacle, but I was in high school. Didn't watch much news back then. I guess it just makes me angry to see my people act that way with all we've had to deal with in this country.

OTOH, I can understand. I've always said that if it came to an armed rebellion against illegals, black folks would be some of the first in line to get their rifles. My reasoning for saying that is because it's OUR jobs the illegals are taking.. not the rich, college educated white guys job. They are taking all the labor, food oriented and customer service jobs... Jobs that typically lower-middle class blacks and whites have always worked. Add to the mix that you have the Mexican president going on TV making stupid, half-ass racist statements about blacks, and the blatantly racist attitude the illegals tend to have towards blacks (as well as whites), and.. well...

...it's not too hard to see why a lot of us are just as pissed off as anyone else.

 

[scromp]

Thanks for the words, Mike. I am mostly just nervous, but I also think it will be a rewarding challenge.

I never meant to imply that everyone against illegal immigration was racist, or that anyone here was at all, but there are a lot of dumb people out there who look at every latino (or every black person, or every asian, or every white guy) the same way. The people who couldn't tell an illegal from a real immigrant or might not even be interested in doing so.

Those are the guys I worry about.

 

[lionking]

zamboxl I will celebrate when Castro dies....he is a tyrant and some of my older Cuban friends have personally told me of their family members murdered by his regime.One of the first things Castro did was confiscate all firearms.

I dont blame them at all for celebrating.I dont mind any ethnic culture celebtrating a cultural holiday.I have had a couple spanish girlfriends before,Peruvian,Columbian and Cuban.

But I dont want to see America torn apart,where American ideals are lost.

and personally as a rock n roller I need to go where Ill be able to play where there is more of a demand for my music.I cant play salsa or hiphop on guitar lol!

 

[lionking]

Now Venezuela have to deal with Hugo Chavez....

 

[zamboxl]

lionking alot of those old time Cubans that are upset about what Castro did are Batistas boys not alot of them mind you but alot of them are, and everyone knows that Batistas goverment was corrupt where the rich and elite, or the criminal element ( the mob) controled the wealth, the jobs, and the oportunites, and they did this by opressing the majority (poor) people of Cuba at the time. And if those old timers of which you speak of want Castro out so bad, and you keep seeing them on tv Talking about how bad Castro is and How much they do to take him out of power, then where are the rifle they plan to use to invade Cuba and take him out. Why dont they stop talking and act, i am sorry but i have a hard time believing their story, i rather believe that they want Castro out out of their own personal goal, and the rest is all propaganda to achieve their goal.

Yes Castro is a Tyrant that has killed many people, and opresses the Cuban people but if you really want to get into murders? Well do a little research on how many people disapeared during Batista? how many people where murder by the mob/Batistas corrupt goverment. I know Castro is an Evil son of a you know what, but alot of those old old time Cubans that came over here when Castro took over where just as bad as him, How do i know this ask my mother, and my father they will tell you. We are not Castro suporters we came here becasue we did not like him and his system, but we are not blind either.
Disclaimer :: i do not mean to say that all of the old timers where part of the elits that ran Cuba back in the day, however some of them are influencing or have influenced the masses to get their own biased agenda across.

 

[crazed_ss]

ere's what I see: This country is sliding, inexorably, toward a race war that could be bloodier than anything we've seen since 1865. For me that qualifies as a "crisis.

I thought this wasnt about race? I thought it was about illegal immigration.
Why would there be a race war? Who would be the factions in this race war?
Is it gonna be Whites against Mexicans or what? Where do Blacks and other races stand? Will we be neutral and just stand around while Whites and Mexicans kill each other? Then again many of my friends are Mexican and my girl is Mexican, so my kids will probably be half-Mexican... I guess I'll have to join the Mexican faction.

Race war.. lollerskates.

EDIT: This is why I buy guns. I'm not scared of gov't JBTs or tyrants taking over the government. I'm not scared of terrorists or an invasion from some foreign government. I fear loony THR types who are always talking about race wars and other impending doom. If these guys ever leave their keyboards and decide to follow through with what they're saying, I dont want to be the one without a gun.. because God knows these guys are gonna be armed to the teeth.

 

[lionking]

yes there is alot of sheer speculating and chest beating that goes on about race wars,abolishment of the 2nd amendment,doom and gloom scenerios and such...

phftt!...I dont know about a in the streets shoot em' up race war but what needs to be addressed is a possible America split and divided by cultural clashes....for instance a America half spanish language and half english speaking.

for ALL immigration there has to be a medium so people can stay united as a nation,not just a bunch of people thrown together who feel alligiance only to the motherland

 

[Cousin Mike]

I never meant to imply that everyone against illegal immigration was racist

scromp - I don't think anyone took your post as implying that.

You have very legitimate concerns, and racism is still very alive in America. Unfortunately, now you are going to experience that in ways that you never have before... and probably never imagined still existed. It'll probably be the most rewarding, and challenging experience of your life at the same time. And I'm sure you'll make a wonderful parent. All of your concerns are legitimate, and anyone with any common sense would share your concerns in your situation.

crazed_ss

This is why I buy guns. I'm not scared of gov't JBTs or tyrants taking over the government. I'm not scared of terrorists or an invasion from some foreign government. I fear loony THR types who are always talking about race wars and other impending doom. If these guys ever leave their keyboards and decide to follow through with what they're saying, I dont want to be the one without a gun.. because God knows these guys are gonna be armed to the teeth.

I like your style, mah brotha...

By the way - my girl is Mexican too, but if the war pops off, she's on our side...
Rethink that one for me, would ya?

Edited because I'm a dumbass

 

[cz75bdneos22]

here...i love people and i love guns...all kinds of both, but what i despise is negaqtive people. period. what race, culture, economics is irrelevant. a jerk is a jerk is a jerk everywhere...

 

[lionking]

I would never understand why someone would WANT to shoot someone....well except maybe Osama Bin.Ah but he doesnt care if you are white black or hispanic....he sees us all as America?

 

[Panthera Tigris]

I'm white, my girlfriend is black. I tend to look and treat everyone the same. I tend to be friendly toward people and I don't much care what their ethnic background is. I'm against illegal immigration also. I don't care if they come in by the millions from everywhere in the world, so long as they come in legally. I've known and worked in the past with folks from Nigeria, Hong Kong, Russia, Mexico, Valenzuela, Laos, the Phillipines, Japan, Germany, England, all over. And I've gotten along with everyone and always took the time to listen and understand when conversing with people. I have also found that we are all alike. We all have the same dreams, desires and fears.
And all of the mentioned people I've worked with would also stand with me against illegal immigration.

 

[0luke1]

I'm with Mr. Vanitas. The vision of the founders was civil rights for human beings - not just the ones with "papers."

Most of the undocumented working people are on payrolls. They give employers social security numbers which aren't theirs. Employers pay SSI (7.5% - most people don't know about that tax because they don't see it) and employees have SSI and other taxes deducted from their paycheck (that's the tax you know about).

The government does not incur an obligation to pay undocumented workers benefits, but takes the money regardless. Factories operate with cheap laborers who cannot openly organize or protest because they have no documents and no rights.

The taxes collected without an obligation to provide federal benefits amounts to billions a year in free money for Washington.

That's just one reason the government allows 11-15 million people to live as non-citizens within the boundaries of our country.

There are many people who are just fine with keeping undocumented workers "illegal." That's why they're here. As an American and as a veteran, it disgusts me to think that our country treats fellow human beings living among us as sub-human.

BTW, beerslurpy, I'm not sure if you intended to sound like a racist, but I found your statement linking "20 million" people to "rats" to be disturbing and bigoted. Perhaps this was unintentional, however, in my opinion, it has no place in a reasonable discussion and it certainly doesn't paint the people in this forum in a good light.

 

[beerslurpy]

Did you read the other 90 percent of my post? There are plenty of substantial reasons to hate illegal immigrants and none of them have anything to do with race. These other reasons are why I think of them as a form of human vermin.

The main problem with illegals is that they are poor. The second problem is that they are illiterate and not interested in learning english, which means they will stay poor, probably for generations. Poverty is a bad thing. Poor people are statistically inclined towards illness, crime and countless other ills. Thanks to the socialism that has crept into our system, it is also an expensive thing for us, slowly eating away at our health care system and our government's solvency.

If those in charge succeed in converting these teeming masses of poor into voters, you can expect the government feeding trough to swell in size. This will mean much higher taxes than even blue-staters currently have and it will mean decades of government getting bigger at our expense.

Before anyone brings it up, it doesnt matter if the illegals pay taxes. If you make less than about 50k (It might be a bit less or more) per year, you are taking more out of the system than you are putting in. If we create a crapload of 20k a year jobs for illegals, we arent adding revenue to the system, we are just adding more sick people, more criminals and more food stamp recipients. And it comes disproportionately out of OUR pockets.

Don't you get it? These people are taking from us and giving us back only grief, disease and ignorance. If this isnt verminhood, what can be? They need to be sent back to the country that shoved them across the border. If we can get rid of the social welfare system in this country, I am open to unlimited immigration, but until then it needs to be completely shut off.

 

[shootinstudent]

The main problem with illegals is that they are poor.

By this reasoning, we should all have hated the hurricane Katrina refugees who required federal assistance.

The second problem is that they are illiterate and not interested in learning english, which means they will stay poor, probably for generations.

I see this claim repeated frequently, without any shred of proof.

Can anyone who believes that illegals do not want to learn English please furnish something resembling solid evidence of this position? "I went to town and saw a sign in spanish" does not prove that all, most, many, or illegals in general do not want to learn english.

Every single one I've ever met (of many) would've loved to learn english. Your whole life is easier in America if you speak it.

Thanks to the socialism that has crept into our system, it is also an expensive thing for us, slowly eating away at our health care system and our government's solvency.

Socialism in healthcare? In America??? Huh? We have perhaps the most privatized and least regulated health care system in the developed world. It also provides the least access to the poor.

What we do have are laws that prohibit refusing emergency care on the basis of inability to pay. If that's what you want to eliminate, be my guest, but don't be shocked when you or someone you know is injured and shows up at the hospital without id...only to be refused treatment until "proof of ability to pay" appears.

If we create a crapload of 20k a year jobs for illegals, we arent adding revenue to the system, we are just adding more sick people, more criminals and more food stamp recipients. And it comes disproportionately out of OUR pockets

And if we want everyone to have a 50k a year job, we'll bankrupt the companies that drive the economy.


Unchecked immigration is a serious problem. It is not, however, the worst problem we've ever faced, and most of the worries associated with it seem to be based on a vision of this grand "socialist welfare" system that America doesn't have. Poor means poor in America, and you get poorer healthcare, poorer living conditions, and poorer treatment generally if you are poor here.

If we can get rid of the social welfare system in this country

FYI, Mexico is much more of a socialist state than the US ever will be.

 

[beerslurpy]

Such ignorance. Let me help.

Why do you think paying customers get 500 dollar advil or 300 dollar a stich sewing? Hint: youre paying for the thousands of illegals that visit the emergency room every time they catch a cold and then refuse to pay.

And surely you must have heard of the medicare and medicaid programs by now? They only cost the better part of a TRILLION dollars each year. Money that comes from our pockets.

 

[shootinstudent]

Why do you think paying customers get 500 dollar advil or 300 dollar a stich sewing? Hint: youre paying for the thousands of illegals that visit the emergency room every time they catch a cold and then refuse to pay.

Having worked in healthcare regulation, I chuckle everytime I see the "costs" cited by some hospitals for these products.

Almost no one who goes to the hospital actually pays for 500 dollar advil or 300 a stitch sewing. Your insurance company does not pay those prices, and the hospital does not lay out that kind of money on the treatment.

You pay outrageous prices because you as an individual have no bargaining power, and because near sinister levels of vertical integration allow for widespread price fixing against you. The insurance companies are part of the pyramid, so it doesn't happen to them like it happens to you....but they will charge you an outrageous premium, anyway.

But illegals, of course, are an easy target for this problem, just like they're an easy target for all sorts of problems, whether they actually cause it or not. I'd like to see, since continued poverty certainly is a concern, some evidence that illegals "don't want to learn english" and that their kids don't learn english.

And surely you must have heard of the medicare and medicaid programs by now? They only cost the better part of a TRILLION dollars each year. Money that comes from our pockets.

On top of the fixed prices for medical services, a large part of this is fraud (even larger than the cost of illegal treatment, some would say), and illegals cannot enroll in those programs. Federal law makes them available to citizens only.

EDIT: This blame game inevitably, with immigration, focuses on hispanics and guess who will be targeted for stepped up enforcement and "race war" if the doomsayers have their way?

It won't be people with white skin. I understand completely why hispanic Americans would be worried about and see racism in all of this outrage about illegal immigration; they're the ones who will face more discrimination and hassling by law enforcement as a result.