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Any runners on the forum? SD tools while running.

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by gossamer, Feb 5, 2013.

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  1. gossamer

    gossamer Member

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    I run with my dog. We do 20-40 miles a week. Most of where we run is fine. Some places are sketchy though.

    A 15-26 mile run with a gun is completely impractical, especially during the summer.

    Besides self defense, I also am considering defense of my dog because others around here cannot find it within themselves to respect our leash laws.

    I currently carry a small can of pepper spray. Not sure how effective this would really be as it's aerosol and not a foam.

    I was curious if any other runners have any suggestions for non-firearm SD tools/weapons?
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2013
  2. lobo9er

    lobo9er Member

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    I have never found myself bothered by a .380 on any hike or jog. I'd say a .380 isn't much harder to carry than a pepper spray. Or even a beretta bearcat would be better than nothing. To each his own. some say they wont leave the house without a full size service pistol.
     
  3. gossamer

    gossamer Member

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    Run a few marathons have ya?

    Funny, I thought I was posing this in the "non-firearms weapons" forum. Guns are the exact opposite of what is intended or asked for.

    Pretty sure I'm best qualified to make the determination of what type of defensive weapon to carry in my circumstance.


    A gun and running shorts don't mix. Especially over 15-20 miles in the spring, summer and early fall. There's also the issue of the law saying concealed means concealed. Not kinda concealed.

    I had a hard enough time keeping running shorts up with an iPhone hanging from them. A gun is not gonna happen.

    A man can barely conceal his manness in a pair of distance shorts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  4. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    I do not carry while running. I have only my feet and my wits.

    I may rethink that. In December I was bitten by a dog mid-stride. He was in the "care" of two children, perhaps 9-12 years old. Not that shooting the dog would have been an option in that scenario, but it did make me think differently. I don't currently own a gun that would work for running, but a blade of some sort might be in order.
     
  5. conw

    conw Member

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    The Galco under wraps belly band works dandy for carrying a gun g19 sized or smaller. The distance run is not that relevant since longer is slower... Sprints would be an issue, intermediate or long distance not so much.

    I mention this to segue to my next point: a belly band also allows one to use G-clip (Spyderco makes one but any decent kydex guy or gal could make one) to secure a concealed fixed blade owb or iwb. A bit of grip tape makes it even more secure.

    I've run for over an hour outside in that type of setup as well as treadmill runs of 10mph or more for 20ish minutes. I'm sure you are more into running than me but there is nothing magical about running longer that would make that setup uncomfortable based on my testing. Sprinting 40m or 100m is a different story.

    For longer outside runs I use static cord to secure some fox labs spray to my small hydration pack, which usually has a reload and very small, true emergency minimalist vac sealed medkit.
     
  6. glistam

    glistam Member

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    There is nothing wrong with pepper spray on a run. Good for two and four-legged problems. There are some very small light weight types and there's holsters you can get that go around your bicep or the back of your hand.
     
  7. MJD

    MJD Member

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    Gossamer,

    I run with a small fanny pack by a company named Nathan. I have fit a .38 S&W J-frame in there before, but since you are looking for nonfirearm uses, I do not believe you would have a problem fitting both pepper spray and your phone in there at the same time, provided that the pepper spray is of the smaller variety. I carry my phone in there on long run days.

    The fanny pack is extremely light, compact, and, as mentioned, will hold both your phone, pepper spray (or knife), and will have some extra room for gel packs (if that's your thing).
     
  8. jon86

    jon86 Member

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    I have ran 5 miles with a smartcarry and an airweight J frame. Never again. It was very uncomfortable, to say the least. I'm interested in what others do.

    I don't have an LCP or similar sized 380, but I wonder if it would be feasible to put it in some kind of arm band made for an iphone?
     
  9. lobo9er

    lobo9er Member

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    I don't where running shorts so... to each his own again. I where light weight cargo looking pants or shorts that I get from Gander Mtn. And no I don't run marathons, but I do enjoy the various mud runs, tough mudders/hero runs, and they work great for that stuff too. They dry out super quick. And afford me conceal ability. So if you cant even carry a cell phone what type of self defense item are you looking for. A neck knife might work for you, about the only other option beside the pepper spray.
     
  10. gossamer

    gossamer Member

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    A few things:

    First the very real, legal issue: is that you can't wear so much as a temporary tattoo without printing in the summer when running. May - Sept. I run in shorts and shoes. After just the first 30 mins, my shorts print my religion, if you get what I mean. A firearm in this context would land me in violation of my ccw permit.

    My average pace for a 20-mile run is the same as my average pace for a 7.5 mile run (8:07-8:11/mile if anyone is counting). For me, longer is not slower. If it is I'm doing something wrong on one of those runs. My training requires I go out of my way to make sure the pace is the same regardless of distance.

    I've tried the belts/packs, even the very light weight Spybelt. With an ipod they were okay for a short run, maybe 4-5 miles. But my shortest runs now are 7 miles in the coldest winter days. Much more than that and they flop too much and they chafe.

    These things seem okay after an hour, after 2 hours I wouldn't be bringing this stuff home with me and someone would find an iPod (or an LCP) on the side of the road.

    I'm thinking something the size of my small Sabre "Runner" is the only day-in-day-out option but I appreciate the input from folks.

    Beatledog, yours is the exact reason I picked up the spray.
     
  11. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Member

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    Short jogs and slow runs aren't your question, right? When I was training for my marathon (40 pounds ago), I tried everything. I ended up actually running with a stout stick about 18" long. Kinda like a baton and I could swing it in rhythm. But then again, I didn't even carry it all the time, just on those particular runs where I knew about the dogs.
    In general, I rationalized that I was in better shape than any human threat (what, are they gonna chase me for the next 17 miles?) and I could go in the woods or cross country where their car couldn't. Against animals I estimated my scent/stench and general grumpiness while running was a deterrence.
     
  12. gossamer

    gossamer Member

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    No, I said while running with my dog. And Picco runs every one of those 26.2 miles by my side. Every single mile. Every single time. We've run over 2000 miles in under 2 years. No bs.

    I don't wear spandex.
     
  13. kBob

    kBob Member

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    I am the anti-runner. No seriously though I do not run and other than military service never have.

    If you are concerned about concealed carry, most places that have anti CC gun laws also have anti CC knife laws.

    A number of folks around here are big on small knives and some fo the neck sheath affairs with very short blades are appealing to me and might get by your local anti CC laws.....but do you really want to fend off a pit bull with a two inch blade?

    May sound silly but have you considerd running with a cane? or some other stick?

    Old study based on NIJ reports indicates that knives for defense are a good way to get hurt for most folks, running away doesn't do so hot either and making a fuss is about the worse you can do.

    Guess what the study showed as most likely to get you out of a bad confrontation with out being hurt yourself? it was not a non -firearm weapon.

    Some dogs could careless about pepper spray that would put you on the ground.

    Most folks here are trying to be helpful even if they loose track of the non firearms theme of this board.

    -kBob
     
  14. kayak-man

    kayak-man Member

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    My usual defensive tool when I run is a small assisted opening knife clipped into my shorts waistband. I just ordered one of the ka-bar LDKs, and it looks like it has some potential for carry while running or at the gym.

    I don't know how legal it is for you, but It sounds to me like some kind of impact weapon might be a good way to go. I've heard mixed reviews of the ASP style batons, but if you can carry pepper spray, I imagine one of those wouldn't be too hard to carry on a run. A sap/blackjack would probably be rather effective too. something small and not too heavy, but that will definitely bring a fight to a stop if you need to use it.
     
  15. Droid noob

    Droid noob Member

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    Like someone else said, an armband that might hold pepper spray or a knife. I'd would think a neck knife would bounce around too much. If your shirtless, it's a moot point anyway. Sounds like strapping something to your arm is the way to go.
     
  16. Kayaker 1960

    Kayaker 1960 Member

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    Kershaw Leek folding knife

    I don't run as much as you, My dog and I run 3 miles, twice a week. I carry a Kershaw Leek folding knife. It's thin and light and opens easily and quickly with a flick of a finger. I clip it inside the waisband of my shorts.
     
  17. lobo9er

    lobo9er Member

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    might not be a bad idea to try to find some different attire also. Unless you want to look the part there are other options available. But it sounds like your set in your ways and not much your gonna conceal so.... I guess we are at a pass. Either change something about your current system or go on without a new defensive item.
     
  18. RTR_RTR

    RTR_RTR Member

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    I'd stick with the pepper spray and add a lightweight kobutan so you have something with a little more authority if need be
     
  19. conw

    conw Member

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    I see some serious and real potential issues for carrying an AO knife IWB during an athletic activity, especially as a defensive item. I would recommend against this, personally :uhoh:
     
  20. conw

    conw Member

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    This is getting a little ridiculous. I'm glad you are proud of your running prowess, but you could obviously run a mile or three faster than 7.5 or 20. Whether you do in your training is pretty much entirely beside the point.

    Point taken regarding comfort, but you're just going to have to accept the inherent trade-offs in choosing to gear up specifically for one sport in the way considered 100% optimal to that sport, versus a way that is passable or optimized toward SD.

    The other thing is that all these belly band options are highly individual, and differ. Until you have test-driven each of them for your 2+ hour runs I don't really think you can pass a blanket judgment, but that's up to you.
     
  21. gossamer

    gossamer Member

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    The clothing is more a function of the weather and effective running than a preference for any one item.

    In a few years of doing this, I've found the clothing that works through a lot of trial and error and idiot taxes paid. If you've run a lot you understand this.

    Anything that is counterproductive to a good run isn't going to pass the test. Be it clothing, sd, shoes, socks, or a route.

    Anyone who's run 10 or more miles in the summer on a regular basis knows (a) what clothing does after 10-15 minutes - clings to everything. This means spending 2 or more hours printing (b) that more clothing is counter productive to effectively running those miles.

    The baton/club or small knife might be an option and is worth considering. Our runs take us through all kinds of neighborhoods. Some of which would definitely call the police on anyone they see going down the trail printing a gun or knife big enough to ward off a dog or bg. It won't matter how cute my pal is. It's not a situation I want to deal with on a run (or any other time.)

    Like I said, I'm most serious about maintaining a good run and serious about concealed meaning concealed, not kind of concealed. So i realize the options are limited. Again, appreciate the feed back.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  22. gossamer

    gossamer Member

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    Maybe I wasn't clear in my point but its not a matter of pride and I certainly don't think it merits ridicule. I was responding to the idea that long runs are slower than short runs. They simply aren't. Anyone who runs distance with regularity understands that the whole point is not to vary your pace that much.

    90 strides/minute is the goal for each run. To point where we sing songs at this tempo to maintain pace.

    It's not a comfort issue, it's a sheerly (pun intended) practical issue that running garb doesn't hide anything.

    Where exactly do you recommend a shirtless man wearing shorts hide one of these belly bands?

    Kinda the whole reason for my question in post #1. I've accepted there's a trade off, the pint is, what are others finding as the balancing point?

    Again, I don't think this warrants ridicule.
     
  23. NG VI

    NG VI Member

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    Why do you have to run ten miles to find out that clothing clings to you after ten minutes of running?

    Are you a cheetah?
     
  24. Deltaboy1984

    Deltaboy1984 Member

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    Neck knife, pepper spray will work so would a small auto or J frame in a Danny pack.
     
  25. glistam

    glistam Member

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    I live in Maryland which has no accessible handgun permits, and it is also illegal to carry handguns openly (pray for us this legislative session...)

    I approach this from a matter of threat/risk assessment. When you're a runner, especially a male one with a dog alongside, you make don't make for a very tempting target by human criminals. You're athletic and highly mobile unless severely winded, and are very unlikely to be carrying large amounts of money or valuables, if any at all. If they even attempt anything it will be using a ruse to lure you in or an ambush. The greater risk comes from off-leash dogs, who don't follow logic, are faster than you, and can be as much a threat to your own dog as you.

    With dog threats, you want distance. Aside from one instance where I saw a friend put a rotti to sleep with a mata leon from behind (it was after another person), all instances I have seen where a dog was neutralized involve pepper spray, a firearm, or long blunt-force weapon. It is worth noting there are multiple cases of the firearm failing to even slow a pit down, so they are by no means perfect. Pepper spray works just fine on dogs, and while I hear some people claim certain dogs can fight through it, I have yet to see proof of this happening or even hear a first-hand anecdote. Blunt force weapons are tricky for a runner because of the weight and finding a comfortable way to carry. Some runners I know carry an expandable baton either in the small of their back or in one of those super small backpack things. It takes some trial and error to arrange it right so it's not knocking into you or sagging, and some of that is body type. If you can make it work and it's legal for you though, I'd give it a try.
     
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