Anyone else get a bunk DSA FAL?

[ZombiesAhead]

I am cheap when it comes to guns. I am just as happy with my $300 WASR/AK as my $900 Bushmaster AR-15. I like reliability and I thought I would find that in an FAL, especially the coveted DSA STG-58.

I spent more money than I have ever spent on a rifle to purchase a DSA STG-58. I waited months for it to arrive. I spent $600 on spare mags, good brass ammunition, a sling, tools, cleaning kit, etc. I have never gotten the rifle to cycle more than a few rounds without locking up while trying to extract an empty cartridge.

I have tried everything - called DSA, put several hundred rounds (expensive!) through it jamming all the way, hand-cycled, lubed, downloaded mags. I shipped the rifle back to DSA and they said they would fix it but I really want my money and time back.

Has anyone else had such problems? Would a cheaper FAL, perhaps with looser clearances function more reliably? I know DSA will make it right somehow but I count this as my most disappointing firearms purchase ever...

Are the DSA rifles more accurate/less reliable or something? I thought these things were AK-like reliable.

 

[Ash]

I've owned DSA's that were fine rifles. I presently own an Imbel with STG-58 parts and Israeli furniture that I really like. I'm not sure where your problem lies, but I imagine it would have to be a lemon as DSA's rep is too good otherwise. However, good rep or not, when you pay good money for something, you certainly have the expectation that it will work. If it does not, that can cause all sorts of displeasure. Wait until the DSA returns and see how it does before you make any decisions.

Frankly, I've had fine luck from Century rifles built on Imbel or Argentine receivers, regardless of inch or metric. I even had good luck with a Hesse. In any case, you should wait until the rifle comes back before dumping it for another one.

Ash

 

[powermad]

I have never gotten the rifle to cycle more than a few rounds without locking up while trying to extract an empty cartridge.

It is short stroking, usually due to not enough gas.
DSA's have a heavy rough park also. Even on the new rigs it is recommended that you polish it off with 400 grit paper.
Or just keep shooting it "breaking it in" until it runs right.

 

[stubbicatt]

Sorry to hear your woes. I don't think DSA is alone in this. Seems to me every single US made firearm I have purchased in the last few years has had issues which would have been easily discovered through the use of due diligence and a QC program. I'm to the point where anything I buy, I'm tempted to box it up and send it to the factory for an inspection before even attempting to shoot it, just so that I don't have that disappointment and frustration.

Or I buy something from overseas like CZ or HK or Glock etc. which don't seem to have the same problem.

 

[Soap]

What gas setting is it on? And why are you lubing your mags?

 

[ny32182]

Honestly, I wouldn't buy anything other than DSA. That doesn't mean there aren't other nice FALs out there; it just means that they are the only company out there with a stellar factory rep, and thats what I look for without a high level of understanding of what makes the platform tick... as is the case with me and this particular rifle.

What exactly do you mean by "locked up"?

It is well known practice to use *very* fine sandpaper to break the edge of the bottom inside corners of the feed rails in the receiver on a new gun. I did this after a couple hundred rounds on my first one, and did it right out of the box on my second one. This is basically a rapid acceleration of the break in process. My first gun needed a high gas setting to feed prior to doing this. It would run 95% on the very lowest gas setting after. Makes them feed smooth as butter right from the start. One tell-tale sign that your gun might need this treatment is front-to-back scoring/lines on the brass of extracted cartridges.

And as someone else said, your gas setting itself could also be responsible if not adjusted according to process.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I know DSA will make it right somehow but I count this as my most disappointing firearms purchase ever...

I guess I don't understand that part.

The reason you buy DSA is so that you CAN get it made right. If you bought any other FAL you would REALLY be unhappy.

Mechanical things sometimes have problems, welcome to the world of mass production. It's unfortunate but sometimes a bad one slips through. I don't know of any manufacturer that doesn't have that issue on occasion.

In your case you are dealing with a company that will fix it.

Waiting so long to send it back to DSA is probably the only thing wrong here.

Comparing a company like DSA to Glock isn't exactly a fair comparison. There's a little difference between one of the largest global arms makers and a niche company making collector replicas.

 

[W.E.G.]

GunBroker.

Somebody else will have that puppy running in a jiff, and you can move on.

 

[Rifleman 173]

The last guy who I knew had problems with his FAL rifle was a tightwad who didn't properly reload his cartridges. The guy, to save a penny or two, kept his reloads at the bottom of the powder amount needed to meet bare minimums instead of going for a medium correct powder reload. I couldn't believe it. He had a good rifle, pretty decent ammo supplies and he scrimps on the powder amount. He did the same exact thing with his semi-automatic pistol reloads too which also caused all sorts of jams and stovepipes. We finally got him to spend a little extra on propellant for a few rounds and he finally caught on that medium powder for reloads is where you really should be but he had so many problems until he learned that being a tightwad with propellant is not a good thing.

 

[El Tejon]

Just wait until you start buying custom guns that do not run.

All firearms have problems and break down. That is why we buy multiple copies of the same weapon.

 

[Bwana John]

You listed this problem before twice, we told you how to start the fix, and provided pictures even. (radius receivers lower feed rails).

You called DSA, they told you how to fix it (shoot 500 rounds). Yes, DSA can be ****ty on the phone. They do make the best US made FAL receiver.

You still have not shown you understand how the gas is regulated or how to adjust the gas correctly.

Im sorry to be so blunt, but man... its a big boys toy. Big boys either know how to use tools, or pay the big bucks on ammo to achieve the same goal. Some times you get a lemon, but you are not experiancing any problems the rest of us have figgured out how to fix.

Ill give you $600 for it, only if you throw in all the extras.

What exactly do you mean by "locked up"?

He means the fired case was stuffed back into the chamber after partial extraction. Both the decreased bolt speed caused by heavy park and lack of "break in", and improper gas adjustment will cause this. Did he try the "Pogo"? Did he get a manual? :banghead:

 

[Destructo6]

All guns, regardless of price, should function reliably right out of the box.

The fact that many consumers accept some failures as part of some sort of break in period merely means that manufacturers will continue to produce guns that are not quite ready for prime time. It's unacceptable.

DSA makes good stuff, and they should make it good by you.

 

[Bwana John]

All guns, regardless of price, should function reliably right out of the box.

I agree, all machines should in a perfect world.

But, they dont.

So, you got a choice... Cut bait, or fish.

 

[jerkface11]

A DSA is not a cheap firearm. It should work out of the box period. This reminds me of the gun dealer trying to sell a 1911 for $1100! and explaining that it would need a 500 round breakin period before it would be reliable! I had a $300 Llama that was broken in after the first mag!

 

[TexasRifleman]

This reminds me of the gun dealer trying to sell a 1911 for $1100! and explaining that it would need a 500 round breakin period before it would be reliable! I had a $300 Llama that was broken in after the first mag!

I have a Richard Heinie built 1911. It needed several hundred rounds to loosen up.

It's got 20,000 + rounds through it and it's still fine, through years of IPSC abuse.

How's your Llama after 20,000 rounds? Any problems?

 

[Bwana John]

It should work out of the box period

Not if you dont know how to regulate the gas.

If you go back to his two previous threads on this matter you dont see anywhere that he understands how the gas regulation system works (which more than one person explained to him).

His post above shows he still dosent understand "the Pogo", which ya need to learn if you have a FAL (and more than one person explained to him). Ask him which part is "the bolt"(which more than one person explained to him)

BTW- FAL's are not as reliable as AK's and not as accurate as AR's and the adjustable gas system is a mistake.
If DSA didnt use such heavy park they couldnt hide the "used" parts as well.(Id rather have "used" mil-spec parts that gauge well over most "new" US commerical ones).
If they had to assemble AND tune the rifle it would cost a lot more. If you think DSA's attitude (500 round break in) on the phone is really ****ty you should see them in person. They still have the best US made FAL receivers. I dont think they build the best rifles.
Im not defending them, Im just stating "how it is" IMO.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

How's your Llama after 20,000 rounds?

He was dead after the first round. Note to self: don't use your llamas for target practice.

 

[goon]

I can understand the disappointment in getting a new gun that doesn't work right. I've had several of those. I've actually had more defective guns in my life than I have guns that worked.
But I also remember the other threads and several people did ask you for more information to help diagnose your problem. WEG and Bwana John are both very knowledgable about FAL's and gave you a lot of advice and as I recall, you never got back to them/us about what was going on.
It really sounded to me like short stroking. Fire a round and the bolt stays locked up - you can pull the charging handle maybe a quarter of an inch back but that's about it.
As was mentioned, the pogo drill is your friend and it's in the original FAL manual. Gas adjustment is also a must. You can't just crank it back and forth and expect it to work - you have to be methodical about it and pay attention to what you're doing. If you're getting failures to cycle with the gas regulator screwed tight against the gas block then you have a problem.

I'm all for being angry if your FAL is messed up but I'm not convinced that's the case.
And I've fixed two that really were messed up.

BTW - the break in period is BS. It should work from the factory assuming that the buyer reads the manual and follows it to get the gas adjusted properly. If you're paying that much for a rifle the bugs should be worked out long before it gets to you.
Having said that, my DSA had a warped charging handle when I first got it. Once I figured out what was going on I called DSA and they had a replacement to me in two days. I installed and reliability has been perfect ever since.
So I guess I've fixed three defective FAL's.

 

[ny32182]

I've yet to see any semiauto firearm other than a Glock that didn't benefit from a "break in period", ie. the action loosening up and smoothing out over the first few hundred rounds. The only way to accomplish this at the factory would be to fire a few hundred rounds. I don't think they are going to do that.

This doesn't mean malfunctions need to be part of that. All of my guns still worked out of the box, but they worked smoother after a few hundred rounds. In the case of the DSA receiver, those portions of the rail can have a big effect on how the rifle feeds, and how much gas it needs to feed. Should they smooth up the edges at the factory? In my opinion, yes. But for whatever reason they don't. So, I spend 5 minutes with some 600 grit sandpaper with a new rifle, and then its off to the races, running on a standard gas setting with no problem. You could probably get the same thing accomplished with 500 rounds of ammo, but the sandpaper is a lot cheaper and faster.

 

[Destructo6]

Not if you dont know how to regulate the gas.

The regulator should have been set to work with standard NATO-spec ammo. So, yes, it should work right out of the box.

 

[Wolfgang2000]

I bought a FAL stg 58 put together by Enterprise. It's been great! no problems at all.

 

[TexasRifleman]

The regulator should have been set to work with standard NATO-spec ammo. So, yes, it should work right out of the box.

Have you ever read the manual for an FAL? It specifically says that you need to adjust your own gas system as soon as you get the rifle, to match your own ammo, NOT to just accept whatever setting is there.

I have several different makes of "NATO spec" ammo and they all end up with different gas settings when following the manual.

 

[VegasOPM]

The biggest issue that I have heard about with the DSA FAL's is accuracy- not reliability. Some of them are 2 MOA, others are 8 or 9 MOA. My take on firearms is, if it isn't reliable and reasonably accurate- it gets sold or traded. More money doesn't always buy better product... if you don't believe me, buy a Jaguar.

 

[Destructo6]

Have you ever read the manual for an FAL? It specifically says that you need to adjust your own gas system as soon as you get the rifle, to match your own ammo, NOT to just accept whatever setting is there.

Is that the part that says:

Before leaving the factory, every rifle has been
adjusted for correct gas setting.

? That would be page 20 of FN's FAL manual.

Yep, I've adjusted my FALs gas regulator. I didn't need to do it to get it to function, because it was set properly with NATO-spec ammo at the factory. I did it, mainly, because everybody said it had to be done and you know what? it ended up on the same setting as it came from the factory.

 

[TexasRifleman]

? That would be page 20 of FN's FAL manual.

FN doesn't make FALs anymore last time I checked

This discussion is DSA FALs. My DSA rifle came with instructions to set the gas for my own ammo and the gas port was wide open, making it a nice "bolt action" rifle.