Anyone have to shoot neighbors dog in self defense??

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

barbarian

Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
25
On Saturday I was cleaning up some downed tree branches from Thursdays' storm. As I approached the west end of my property I became aware of a barking dog. My wife was also with me at the time. We did not know what type of dog it was as we had not seen it previously but had heard it barking on many occassions. We knew the dog was very territorial. The neighbors had put up a fence that we all believed would restrain the dog.

It didn't - the dog slipped under the fence and attacked my wife. It tore up her thumb pretty good. She was darn lucky! The dog was out for blood - I fended it out with a running chainsaw in it's face. That is the only thing that allowed my wife to escape and prevented the dog from attacking me.

We didn't recognize the dog at first. The AKC calls it an American Staffordshire Terrier. The UKC calls it an American Pitbull Terrier!!! My wife was attacked by a pitbull!! I had not idea this monster was roaming next to my property.

We have been at war with these neighbors for over 10 years (yes it is just like the Hatfields and McCoys). The dog belongs to the neighbors daughter and the dog visits frequently.

I don't have a carry permit (maybe that is irrelevant) but I have to wonder what would have happened had I shot and killed that monster. The dog had crossed onto our property as a result of not being properly restrained by the neighbor (who let the dog bark and pace the property line).

Living in the litigous society we live in I have to wonder if I would have been found guilty of something I am not aware of. The perverted laws are often structured to protect the guilty and punish the innocent.

Anyone have to put down an attacking dog?? Love to hear your story . . .

Barbarian
 
Yes but I used a non-lethal weapon.

Neighbors down the road have a rottweiler. They got it from the Shelter and it has 'issues'. It's not very friendly.

Well it kept getting loose and coming over here and trying to attack my dog.

After the 2nd time, I kept a paintball gun handy.

After being blasted multiple times from a semiauto paintball gun, he never came back over here after his second taste of it.

Nobody has ever said anything and that was 4 years ago.
 
im not trying to poke fun here, but if you need a gun to take down a dog perhaps you should consider moving. you are a human for christ sake.. pick up a bat or a shovel and have at it. avoid losing your gun during the investigation ( which will happen if you decide to use a firearm against someones domesticated pet)

i think its overkill
 
There was thread a month or so ago describing such an incident. You may be able to come up with it in search. If I recall, the guy was sent a vet bill for the dog he killed that attacked his kids!
 
Call animal control and/or the county public health office and/or the sheriff (this stuff is usually handled by the county govt even if you live in the city) and file a vicious dog report; tell 'em your wife was bit and you want the dog tested for rabies. (the way they test is to cut the dog's head off and send it to the state veterinary lab.) End of problem.

Of course, my information may be a bit out-of-date... :rolleyes:
 
+1 to calling the authorities, soonest! Probably the best way to ensure that you WON'T wind up having to kill the dog. IE, the state will likely end up doin' it FOR you....
 
Be proactive and get the police involved immediately. I have a nephew that was bitten in the face by a pitbull when he was about 7. It took another child getting bitten by this dog and nearly a year before the court finally got off their duff and had the dog put down.

As it stands now, the owner of said dog is responsible for your medical bills, time off work to go to said medical facility, mileage to and from the facility, and so on. I'm no lawyer, but based on my sister's experience with my nephew, you have some work to do. I'd take time off work to get this stuff done so you can charge them for that too. If you are a 9-5 type like myself, this is entirely acceptable, but consult a lawyer for real advice, this being the internet and all.

You absolutely need to keep on the court's backside to get this done, it will not happen on it's own. You will need to attend any court proceedings on the matter to illustrate to the court that this has been a significant impact to your life. The court will recognize this if only by your presence at the proceedings. This was paramount to getting the pitbull that bit my nephew finally put down. IIRC, my sister attended the second victim's court proceedings to illustrate a point to the court that this was not a first time or one time event.

Unfortunately, the bad blood between you and your neighbor is not going to help. If my dog bit the neighbor's kid, it would get put down as soon as I knew that the child did not antagonize the dog into biting him or her. I would be calling my insurance agent and immediately be offering to pay for everything. Regardless of tact, I'd be wholly responsible anyway, as the owner of this dog now is.

Being the dog, even it not owned by the property owner, escaped from the property owners confines, there may be significant legal repercussions in your favor also.

The ball is in your court. In this case, I would absolutely not talk to my neighbor, get a lawyer, and let them handle it. Particularly because of the bad blood between you. Don't get in a heated argument, although it may be too late, but by all means, be civil and let the other guy lose it. It goes a long way to your credibility in the courts eyes not to be an agressive a-hole with this matter. Let your lawyer handle that, and handle it they will.

Best of luck and keep us posted. Oh yeah, by the way, no, I've never shot anyone's dog in self defense. Even if justified, using a gun always makes things a quite a bit stickier in America's infamous legal system. I would reach for a yard tool first, probably my poop scooping shovel for my dogs.
 
I don't know where you are, but in Utah, animals are a strict liability. Your dog is never under any circumstances (including circumstances where YOU would be allowed to use deadly force) allowed to bite anyone.

If a dog owner fails to control his animal, and you are presented with a reasonable fear of attack, you are absolutely allowed to put it down.

I wouldn't bet my life on pepper spray against a pit bull. Shame on your neighbor for treating that animal in a way that it became a danger to his neighbors.
 
Dogs can do a massive amount of damage in a very short amount of time, in an encounter with a medium or large dog the human is the one at the disadvantage.

Lethal force is allowable to protect yourself or others against grave bodily injury or death, an attacking dog meets those requirements. We also have a statute that provides civil immunity for justified use of force.

Recently several pitbulls have been shot while attacking or threatening imminent attack on other people's property.

There are a lot of threads regarding use of force against dogs on this forum that would be good reading.

I love dogs but have absolutely no problem using lethal force to prevent an attack. I carry OC but probably would not use it against a dog, there is no guarantee that it will work fast enough or at all.
 
Carry a firearm open carry on your property should be legal and shoot the damned dog!! Your wife is more important then the worry you are exibiting...

If necessary...Use the three"S's"...Shoot, shovel and shut-up...
 
LTB15J wrote (for some reason):

>>>im not trying to poke fun here, but if you need a gun to take down a dog perhaps you should consider moving. you are a human for christ sake.. pick up a bat or a shovel and have at it. avoid losing your gun during the investigation ( which will happen if you decide to use a firearm against someones domesticated pet)

i think its overkill<<<

Most of us here on THR talk openly about how we keep and carry firearms for defensive purposes, but I've come across no one here who says they routinely walk their neighborhood carrying a shovel or bat. Guess I'm still kind of new here.
Those of us in the South know what a pitbull terrier is, and not just from an occasional news report.
 
Several years ago, we moved into a rental home next door to another that housed a couple with three dogs. All three dogs were kept outside 24/7. Two pits were kept in a chainlink kennel about 20 feet long and maybe eight feet wide. The third, a Rottweiler, was kept tied to a rope that was strung between two trees. There was no fence between their property and ours. The couple was relatively anti-social, and we never got to know them.
I knew the dogs, or at least one of them, would be a problem one day. I was right. One afternoon, six months after we'd moved in, I was out back mowing my lawn (rotary push mower.) I was in the habit of keeping my MK-II in my pocket when I did this, specifically for this situation. Suddenly, I noticed a large black blur fast approaching from my right. The Rottie had broken loose, and was charging me. I immediately swung the mower around to block its advance, and worked to keep it positioned between the dog and me. The dog kept batting from side to side, barking and snarling, trying to get around the mower, apparently unfazed by its still-running engine. Hoping to startle the dog and break its train of thought, I drew the Ruger, chambered a round, and popped it into the ground in front of the dog (I really didn't want to kill it if I didn't have to.) The dog stopped momentarily, and I backed away, keeping the still-running mower between us. The dog resumed its advance, but I made it to the door of my house, leaving an interesting grass-cut pattern in the lawn. I called LE, advising them what happened, that the dog was still loose, and that I could see two women with small children with them walking by the front of my home who could be at risk. There were other people about, too, as it was a nice evening. I then went back outside to keep watch from my doorstep in case any of the other people got into danger. An officer arrived, but was not aware of the urgency of the situation because he had gotten the call dispatched to him inaccurately (he'd been told it was "someone with trouble with a neighbor over a dog and wants to speak to an officer".) Upon arrival, he notified AC, and we waited. The dog squared off with us in my yard, but, for some reason, did not approach, just stood and barked at us. By this time, I had stowed the Ruger in the cab of my truck, and I told the officer where it was, since I had told the dispatcher I was armed ex-LEO. He wasn't concerned at all about it.
AC arrived just before the owners, who weren't home, did. Another neighbor arrived just before them. She "knew" the dog, and re-tied it to the tree. The owners then took custody of it, but they didn't get off easy. I live in a city with a code of ordinances, and they ended up with seven citations. Three were for unsheltered animals (no cover for any of them), three were for unlicensed/unregistered animals, and one was for an unrestrained animal. Needless to say, my wife and I still didn't get a Christmas card from them. They should have been grateful I didn't shoot the dog. Even the officer was prepared to.
Funny thing, though. They got rid of those dogs somewhere a couple of days later, and got a miniature Pinscher!
 
I was fully prepared to take the mutts' head off with my chain saw with no regrets or second thoughts whatsoever!

We have an attorney looking into the case for us. We are going to avoid a criminal lawsuit and go for an out of court settlement.

The attorney told us that damages would not come directly from the neighbors but rather from their home owners' insurance. Sorry to say but I was pretty disappointed to hear that. Yes, I admit it, I am guilty, I want my pound of flesh for all the troubles these so called 'human beings' have caused us over the years.

We should have sold the place and moved years ago but we didn't and here we are. Thanks for the responses!

This should get interesting . . . stay tuned

Barbarian
 
Disappointed???

I would venture a guess that the insurance company has more money than the NEIGHBORS do!

And they'll make the neighbors pay dearly for it in increased costs, no doubt. Chin up! :)
 
I understand your reasoning for wanting to put the animal down...if it attacked your wife it can attack someone far more vulnerable (e.g. children). Unfortunately, the law may come after you as opposed to the owners of the animal.

A few weeks ago I was confronted with the same option upon entering my building. I have a CCW permit and contemplated the same. However, putting a round into a pitbull can be viewed as a little excessive. I opted out for a nearby brick and didn't have any problems or repercussions w/the police a or PEDA.

"DO" what works, but "DO" think before you act
 
Does popping off one of your neighbors guineas count?

Did that just the other day, stupid birds wonder on our land and produce large amounts of fecal matter either on the yard or on the concrete slab in from of my garage doors.

.22LR from 100yds seemed to put a cork in it:D
 
I have leveled a firearm at a neighbors' dogs several times.
In one lengthy ordeal they had 3 large Rottweilers come over and attack dogs tied up on a landlord's property several times. The dog's on the landlord's property were on a nice elaborate run they had set up.
I was renting a place on thier property while they lived in the main house.

It happened on several occasions and I went out and broke them up, the dogs never turned on me, and under CA law shooting them over pets is ill advised as they are considered property and you are not supposed to use lethal force to defend property (with exceptions for livestock.)
The Sheriff though was supportive of the use of lethal force, and said they would have likely killed the dogs almost every time they came out. Of course the Sheriff would not have had to pay the court costs, so thier support was appreciated, but it is still you that will deal with the results.


No serious injury was inflicted in any of the incidents (few puncture marks from teeth on the dogs, and bruising), though the fights were aggressive. I was able to break them up fairly well and quickly as I happened to be home around the time the neighbor had thier dogs get away (when they got home and let them run around outside).
I was willing and ready to shoot if one turned on me, especialy with several involved as it is very difficult to defend against multiple large dogs if they take you to the ground.

The neighbor started being reported after about the 5th incident, and fined after about the 7th by animal control (if we had known it would take several reports to even begin fining them I am sure reports would have started sooner).
The dog owners just couldn't take the hint from a neighborly talk. They promised it would never happen again each time, and failed to control thier dogs and it did happen again over and over.

The number of incidents was in the double digits. The dogs were threatening to other people on the landlord's property, and roaming free growling and snarling at people, even performing bluff charges.

One of them disappeared, the owner got rid of it after it viciously attacked one of thier visitors.
Another was finaly given to someone else, the remaining one was not as aggressive alone and rarely got loose, and when it did get loose did not attack.

Of course now they do not get along with those neighbors because the neighbors holds them responsible for the fines and they have a hostile relationship.

After being blasted multiple times from a semiauto paintball gun, he never came back over here after his second taste of it.
Click to expand...
Likely get you a felony charge of animal cruelty here in CA. That would be seen as cruel and inhumane if not in self defense. You are more likely to get away with actualy killing the animal than splatting paint on it.

im not trying to poke fun here, but if you need a gun to take down a dog perhaps you should consider moving. you are a human for christ sake.. pick up a bat or a shovel and have at it. avoid losing your gun during the investigation
Click to expand...
I was fortunately able to break them up without killing them. However two of them were close to 150 pounds, on the large size even for Rotts. We know this because animal control weighed them on digital scales. They were solid and muscular. One was a bit lighter and a puppy, around 100 pounds.

If you are downed by one dog, and another is attacking it can be very hard to defend yourself while pinned down on one side and being attacked from another.
Plus no person should have to suffer permanent nerve damage or scars because they wait until a dogs bites into them.
I am reminded of a surgeon that was attacked, lost most of the use of one of his hands. He could never perform surgery again, and was only compensated about one year of pay in a lawsuit.
So he won one year of pay, will never do the job he spent close to a decade in school to perform, and will have a lower quality of life both financialy and physicaly for the rest of his life because he was bitten by a dog.

Should a person wait until they are bitten to use lethal force against an aggressive animal?
Does a person owe it to an animal with around a 10-13 year life span to let the beast choose to maybe not inflict serious injury that could last the rest of the person's life?

That is here in the US, where rabies is fairly uncommon.
In many parts of the world stray and regularly loose animals have high rate of rabies infection. Just being bitten can be fatal to you. In fact they are the main source of human rabies in most of the world. Do you trust they have all thier shots?
 
It happened on several occasions and I went out and broke them up, the dogs never turned on me, and under CA law shooting them over pets is ill advised as they are considered property and you are not supposed to use lethal force to defend property (with exceptions for livestock.)
The Sheriff though was supportive of the use of lethal force, and said they would have likely killed the dogs almost every time they came out. Of course the Sheriff would not have had to pay the court costs, so thier support was appreciated, but it is still you that will deal with the results.


No serious injury was inflicted in any of the incidents (few puncture marks from teeth on the dogs, and bruising), though the fights were aggressive. I was able to break them up fairly well and quickly as I happened to be home around the time the neighbor had thier dogs get away (when they got home and let them run around outside).
I was willing and ready to shoot if one turned on me, especialy with several involved as it is very difficult to defend against multiple large dogs if they take you to the ground.
Click to expand...

IMHO, you should have used a pitchfork to break up the fight.
 
You got a lot of good opinions and advice in this thread, I'm glad you contacted a Lawyer quickly.

1. Sew the pants off your neighbor because that dog could have easily killed your wife if you weren't there to stop it.
2. I think an animal is considered property everywhere in the country so I wouldn't worry about being in trouble with the law. Like I said, I think it's all of the country.
3. You and your wife should both get your carry permit so that in case you don't have a chainsaw handy you can still stop an attack, no matter where or who does the attacking.
4. The only mistake you made IMO is letting that dog live.

I'm glad your wife wasn't hurt badly, that could have gone very wrong very fast. Good work stopping the attack. (but I still say you should have killed that dog) ((NO, I don't hate animals in general but I do hate any animal who threatens my family))
 
2. I think an animal is considered property everywhere in the country so I wouldn't worry about being in trouble with the law. Like I said, I think it's all of the country.
Click to expand...
Felony animal cruelty also exists in a number of states, so no they are not just property from that standpoint.


Your own animal is property, and defense of your own animal would be defense of property, meaning lethal force is much more restricted.
However when it comes to another person's animal it varies widely from state to state.
Some states treat them as miniature people, wishing to grant them most of the protections against lethal force a person has. Of course regardless of what a pet owner might think, they definately are not little people.
I love my own animals, but I also realize they will never have the conscience, empathy or understanding of thier actions a person would no matter how much of a family member I consider them.
For that reason expecting another human being to hold them to the same standards I may choose to hold my animal to or that I expect a person to hold me to is foolish.


In some places an animal just tresspassing allows lethal force. When you think of them just as pets that can be a little harsh, when you think of them as the main vector of rabies in most of the world, and in groups a lethal threat to human beings it makes more sense.

In more states lethal force against them requires they are posing a danger to something, whether animal or other property.

In a few states there is the same requirements for self defense as against another person.

In some states they are even more protected against non lethal force than a human being.
If you use non lethal force against a person it is usualy allowed under many circumstances, or a misdemeanor.
The same exact force against an animal in the same exact situation can be felony animal cruelty, go figure.

Go into a full fledged attack on an innocent person with your hands and feet? Misdemeanor.
Kick at a dog you feel may be a threat running at you or invading your space? Optional felony.

The world can be bizarre sometimes.

Pet owners always think thier own animal is the perfect animal, possessing excellent judgement. They expect you to know thier animal running at full speed towards you is planning to greet you rather than attack you, and even if it does attack you, it is because you did something wrong and the animal never does that.
You hear that in most cases of attack.
(No big surprise I guess, most parents say the same about criminal children that victimize someone. Perfect choir boy.)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

J
  • Locked
shooting dogs
2 3 4
Replies
99
Views
4K
BullfrogKen
B
F
  • Locked
Obnoxious Dogs ?
Replies
4
Views
668
XavierBreath
XavierBreath
M
  • Locked
First Defensive Use of Handgun
2 3
Replies
70
Views
4K
g21forme
G
B
  • Locked
Yet another Pitbull attack.
2 3
Replies
57
Views
3K
dfaugh
D
G
  • Locked
Denver Bans Pitbulls
Replies
19
Views
639
Zundfolge
Zundfolge
Back
Top