Ask a Bounty Hunter

[NineseveN]

Some of the statements made in this thread literally disgust me. There's a HUGE difference between being willing to use force against someone that enters your home without permission if you are forced to and being gleeful about the prospect of killing another human being and boasting about your resolve to do so.

I don't want to give anyone any reason in their mind to enter my home forcibly for fear of what will compel me to do. I don't paint myself into a corner out of stubborn ego just because I legally can. If an LEO comes to my door, I don't slam the door in their face and tell them to come back with a warrant. I ask them what they want and I answer their questions as best I can. I don't give them any reason to pursue any action other than leaving me alone and moving on with their investigation elsewhere. I treat bounty hunters, private investigators and all manner of folks the same. I answer the door, putting my foot behind it and I keep a loaded firearm in my hands concealed by the door just in case. If a bounty hunter asks about a fugitive and shows their warrant, I truthfully answer their questions. If they were looking for someone that is inside of my home, I would let them apprehend the person. No one I associate with has any business implicating me in felonious conduct, period. Answering their questions and giving them the truth does me no harm and would give no reason for anyone to enter my home, which is the way I like it. If I play Billy Badass like some of the posters in this thread say they would, that might just give the bail enforcers reason (in their minds) to break in. It doesn’t matter if the law is on my side, I dread the idea of killing another human being, justified or not. No reason to make that possibility any more realistic by being a jerk when it's not needed.

I've had one dealing with bounty hunters. I rented an apartment for about a year and half when one day I get a knock on my door. I wasn't expecting anyone so I followed my foot behind the door and shotgun in hand routine. The gentlemen at the door asked for [whatever the name was] and if they lived here and were home. I explained that I did not know anyone by that name and that I had lived in this apartment for about a year and a half. One of them did ask if I minded if they came in and looked around, to which I replied, "Only if you don't mind being disarmed at my front door and being escorted at gun point through my home. We don't know each other, and I doubt you'd let me waltz into your home regardless of whatever business I felt I had there. Really, I don't know the person you're talking about."


They said 'thank you' and went on their way. As they were leaving, one of them turned and asked me what the address was to my apartment, I gave them the number. Turns out, the number to my apartment was missing a digit on the address panel, they were looking for a guy in the next building over and they eventually found him there.

I am thinking that despite the Ramboisms in this thread, most folks would pee themselves into submission if met with force. Folks that talk tough rarely are. Just an observation. Again, there's a HUGE difference between being willing to use force against someone that enters your home without permission if you are forced to and being gleeful about the prospect of killing another human being and boasting about your resolve to do so.

 

[Car Knocker]

I'm quite mystified that the leo's posted so hostile toward the bounty hunter in this thread. I chalk up this hostility to inflated egos. It won't be the first example.

Do you know the LEOs in question well enough to make that observation or is it just an unsupported, gratuitous comment?

 

[Ezekiel]

most folks would pee themselves into submission if met with force.

Hence that whole "fear" thing I spoke of earlier.

These are the folk that, truely, belong in the "my gun is a metallic phallus" crowd.

They reflect everyone else in a poor manner. :banghead:

 

[brerrabbit]

Nineseven

I am one of the ones that posted about my wilingness to use force to protect the sanctity my home. There is nothing gleeful about it. I have already stated the a LEO coming to my door would be treated with courtesy and respect.

The bounty hunter is a civilian fufilling a contract, not a LEO. He does not come into my home unless I allow it. If he decides to escalate the situation, I will be calling 911 to have him removed and I will take the actions neccessary to protect myself.

Based on the logic of your post, you are willing to let anyone come into your home because of the possible threat of violence they could provide. Not a very sane answer either.

As far as peeing myself in fear, maybe when I was a kid, that was twenty years and a couple of enlistments ago. The prospect of dying while protecting my home is something that does not fill me with fear.

Ezekial

Your gun may represent your phallus, mine does not.

 

[TallPine]

If I play Billy Badass like some of the posters in this thread say they would, that might just give the bail enforcers reason (in their minds) to break in.

Well, that's their problem

I suppose owning anything remotely considered valuable is reason for burglars to break in...?

You can handle your door-answering tactics however you please, and I will do the same thank you.

I always do a "size-up" of any strangers that appear on my property. If someone appears decent and harmless, I usually meet them outside while maintaining some distance (and armed of course, as I am from the time I roll out of bed in the morning). Be nice and I'll be nice. I've given people directions and let people use the phone in an emergency. And one time a passerby was reporting smoke from a nearby wildfire. Only once have I run somebody off - and that was for good reason.

However, I will not open my door to armed and belligerent strangers pounding on my door. If that displeases anyone, then tough


Edit: just to kinda explain something, I don't mean to talk tough on the net. But some guy comes on here, says he is a bounty hunter, and basically says that he can bust down my door if I don't answer it fast enough or choose not to answer it at all. That sort of gets my highland hackles up, you know

This thread certainly has been educational.

 

[hammer4nc]

carknocker asked:

Do you know the LEOs in question well enough to make that observation or is it just an unsupported, gratuitous comment?

At least a few self proclaimed cops have denigrated the BH in this thread... you're disputing this? posts # 29, and #85 come from police.

post #29:

However, the vast majority of bounty hunters do have at the least a "shady past," and often have an extensive criminal history themselves.

and post #85

I have the same opinion of bounty hunters as DMF...<followed by a low-road rant which I won't quote>

Through several discussions here on THR, one of the major, repeated themes put forth by these members (one a moderator, no less), with regard to criticism of public officials, is the "few bad apples", defense, i.e., how wrong it is to generalize based on our limited, anecdotal experience.

So, its mystifying when these same members engage in this activity, in such a wholesale fashion. As I stated, I'd think most peace officers would welcome the help (see example I cited).

Gratuitous? Perhaps you can offer a more logical explanation.

 

[NineseveN]

brerrabbit and TallPine, I think the two of you need to go back and read my post slowly and carefully.

brerrabbit, nowhere did I say that I am:

willing to let anyone come into your home because of the possible threat of violence they could provide.

Read. Read. Read. I indicated that I was willing to be a man, extend some courtesy and answer some questions that do me absolutely no harm so that the visitor (LEO or not) has no reason to feel they should make an entry. It doesn't matter if you're right or the law is on your side, in the end, if you don't do everything in your power to avoid a force situation, you're the one that has to live with having taken a life. The overwhelming majority of people that do so out of self-defense have a difficult time with it, even if they've taken a life in their duty prior to that.

It's no different than avoiding hanging out in bad neighborhoods despite the fact that you are completely within your legal rights to do so. Just because you have a gun and can defend yourself, some things aren't the brightest of ideas if you want to avoid having to use your firearm to take a life.

Some folks need to learn the lesson that, up to the actual act of discharging your weapon, if it's something you wouldn't engage in without a gun, perhaps you should not be doing it with a gun. It's no different than saying if you won't go there without a gun, you shouldn't be going there with one. YMMV, but don't start mischaracterizing what I post in order to make me out to be the goofball. It ain't happneing.


Tallpine:

Well, that's their problem

And it's your problem when the corpse is lying on the floor in your living room where you could have avoided it by thinking with your head and not your ego and answering a few questions so long as they don't harm you.

I suppose owning anything remotely considered valuable is reason for burglars to break in...?

No, not at all, but advertising that you have a lot of cash and guns is a good way to get them to come visit your home one night. Smart folks don't do that, not because of whether or not it would be legally within their right to do so, but because doing so, despite being in the legal right, would be stupid and would increase the risk of an encounter where someone's life must be taken. Maybe, you don't care. More power to you.

However, I will not open my door to armed and belligerent strangers pounding on my door. If that displeases anyone, then tough

No one is asking you to, nor was the OP stating that he would arrive at your door that way. You're going off on tangents where they need not be gone off on. If a bounty hunter knocks on your door and asks if so and so lived there, they skipped bail and have a bench warrant for him, what is so freaking hard about telling them you don't know the person and to have a nice day?


It seems like so many folks want to try and provoke a justified shoot to put a notch on their belts here. You can't answer a few simple questions?

Edit: just to kinda explain something, I don't mean to talk tough on the net. But some guy comes on here, says he is a bounty hunter, and basically says that he can bust down my door if I don't answer it fast enough or choose not to answer it at all. That sort of gets my highland hackles up, you know

Agreed, but my point in my post was during the 'knocking and asking questions phase', certainly well before the kicking in of the door part.

 

[Car Knocker]

hammer4nc,

How did you determine that the LEOs you referred to have inflated egos? Do you know them well enough to make that determination? Is it just supposition on your part? That's all I'm asking.

 

[Ezekiel]

It seems like so many folks want to try and provoke a justified shoot to put a notch on their belts here.

That's certainly what it looks like to me.

 

[TallPine]

I indicated that I was willing to be a man, extend some courtesy and answer some questions that do me absolutely no harm so that the visitor (LEO or not) has no reason to feel they should make an entry. It doesn't matter if you're right or the law is on your side, in the end, if you don't do everything in your power to avoid a force situation, you're the one that has to live with having taken a life.

So now I'm responsible for someone else committing a felony because I choose not to answer my door...?????

Excuse me, but that is just ridiculous - especially if the reason I don't answer the door in the first place is to avoid a confrontation that might possibly escalate into violence. (how do I know the guys at the door are really legitimate bond recovery agents, or just some thugs...?) The conventional wisdom stated over and over here on THR is to stay in your house and call the police if you have (a) threatening person(s) on your property, rather than go outside and confront them.

Murdock already stated something to the effect that he and his boys will break in with overwhelming force - I assume that means something like he has a "stack" of guys standing beside/behind him when he knocks on the door. And I'm supposed to just open the door to that...???

OTOH, if some polite gentleman/lady knocks on my door and asks a few questions about someone's whereabouts, I will be as helpful as I can be. If the person in question actually does reside in the neighborhood, I will probably be more than happy to see them go

 

[NineseveN]

So now I'm responsible for someone else committing a felony because I choose not to answer my door...?????

If you can indicate anywhere in the post that you quoted from where I used the word "responsible", I'll give you a Springfield Armory 1911. If you can't, again, either you're not reading what I am saying, you cannot read properly, or you just want to run your mouth about things I'm not even talking about. If you're gonna respond to my post, actually try and respond to what’s actually contained in the post.

Here's a hint, I'm saying that even if you're legally justified (i.e. not legally responsible) you'll still have to live with it...and that's a shame if it could have been prevented by not being a hardass. But it's your choice, have fun.

 

[S&W 910]

Some of you are assuming some of us are looking for a fight,we're not.Remember its the thread starter /bounty hunter threating to to bust down peoples front door if we don't want to talk to them in our own home behind business that does not concern us.

I certainly don't try to play tough or want to have shootouts,but there are certain principles that i am willing to fight and die for.

Having armed non-Leo gunmen bust down my front door and take control of me in my house is one of those principles

 

[Johnnybgood]

Since I don't harbor fugitives

and will to the best of my ability comply with lawfull orders I would probably cooperate. But not until my local police dept. showed up (called by me) and verified that you were who you said you were.
Then come on in look around, cause I do not harbor fugitives. (At least knowingly)

 

[jnojr]

I've had one dealing with bounty hunters. I rented an apartment for about a year and half when one day I get a knock on my door. I wasn't expecting anyone so I followed my foot behind the door and shotgun in hand routine. The gentlemen at the door asked for [whatever the name was] and if they lived here and were home. I explained that I did not know anyone by that name and that I had lived in this apartment for about a year and a half. One of them did ask if I minded if they came in and looked around, to which I replied, "Only if you don't mind being disarmed at my front door and being escorted at gun point through my home. We don't know each other, and I doubt you'd let me waltz into your home regardless of whatever business I felt I had there. Really, I don't know the person you're talking about."


They said 'thank you' and went on their way. As they were leaving, one of them turned and asked me what the address was to my apartment, I gave them the number. Turns out, the number to my apartment was missing a digit on the address panel, they were looking for a guy in the next building over and they eventually found him there.

I am thinking that despite the Ramboisms in this thread, most folks would pee themselves into submission if met with force.

But not you...

 

[TallPine]

Here's a hint, I'm saying that even if you're legally justified (i.e. not legally responsible) you'll still have to live with it...and that's a shame if it could have been prevented by not being a hardass. But it's your choice, have fun.

Would be a worse shame to be robbed and murdered and my wife raped by a bunch of thugs, just because I didn't take precautions.

tallhardasspine

 

[DRZinn]

3...2...1...

 

[NineseveN]

But not you...

Oh yes, myself included...I've been the victim of violent crime, I've met force with force (never with a firearm)...folks tend not to tell a joke and smoke a cigarette afterwards in real life like they do in the movies.

 

[NineseveN]

Would be a worse shame to be robbed and murdered and my wife raped by a bunch of thugs, just because I didn't take precautions.

So if men dressed as state police or federal agents come to your door, you're not answering, and you're killing them if they make entry?

Badges and ID's are easily faked, so are warrants. It would be a shame if they weren't real LEO's and they raped your wife and killed you, right? Can't answer the door! Must not answer questions! Either might get you killed, right?

Or wait, I bet you know the face of every single officer and fed in your area, right? Or would you call the local police and ask them if the police are supposed to be at your door before you answered? Then why not call the police if a bounty hunter shows up at your door as well and have the police come out? Like the OP stated, they'll call the police in most cases (should really be all, no amount of money is worth killing someone or getting killed over).

So what do you do when the police come out and verify that the bench warrant is valid and these guys really are bounty hunters? Do you still not allow entry and kill them if/when they come in?

 

[tellner]

I really haven't seen any "glee" at shooting people in this thread, at least no more than any other thread that involves deadly force A lot of people are concerned about armed men come through their doors without permission or search warrants. This is especially true if the people doing the entry are at the wrong house. For many of us, forcible entry by people with weapons constitutes a serious threat of injury or death, so we react accordingly.

There have been cases where it's happened. It's messy. It's nasty. It often involves police, ambulances, lawyers and calls to funeral parlors. Nobody wants that. So people react a bit defensively when someone says "I could be the guy doing this to your house."

HMMurdock has done an excellent job of explaining his profession and the parameters. There should probably be changes made - regulation, training, accountability, that sort of thing. It's still an important if unpleasant part of the justice system, and we would have trouble if it weren't there.

 

[SomeKid]

hammer4nc, reply to post 107,

Re-read Jeffs #85. HMM does not know the law and is wrong. The 'few bad apples' defense does not apply when the person in question is flat out wrong.

tellner, HMM has NOT done a good job explaining things. Take note of the obvious errors and the fact that he has abandoned his own thread as a clue.

 

[TallPine]

Then why not call the police if a bounty hunter shows up at your door as well and have the police come out?

Well. if you had read what I posted previously, you would see that is exactly what I said I would do

Let's just let this drop since we obviously are not communicating.

 

[NineseveN]

TallPine, I read that, but what do you do when the LEO tells the bounty hunters to make entry and the LEO just waits outside? If you want to drop it, that's fine, ignore the question. It's all good.

P.S.
If anyone does a search on THR under my username and the topic of no-knock entries, you'll find that I do share your concerns and resolve (to a point) regarding folks I cannot identify busting through my door, but the tone of this thread seems a little different to me, maybe that's because I'm being the moderate one for once.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

No one is asking you to, nor was the OP stating that he would arrive at your door that way. You're going off on tangents where they need not be gone off on. If a bounty hunter knocks on your door and asks if so and so lived there, they skipped bail and have a bench warrant for him, what is so freaking hard about telling them you don't know the person and to have a nice day?

And what happens next, when he says "I don't believe you. I know he's in there, cough him up."

Remember, Mr. Bounty Hunter does NOT have a search warrant, he has a bench warrant to take the named individual into custody. Mr. Murdock has already admitted that bounty hunters tell lies to elicit cooperation. He has already also said that they generally only approach residences where they believe an individual is sequestered. Since I don't know any bail skippers (in fact, I lead a rather insular life style -- by choice), anyone who comes to my door suggesting that there may be a bail skipper inside is either lying or very badly mistaken.

And, since Mr. Bounty Hunter is not allowed to wear a uniform of any kind or flash a badge in my state, what's to prove that this guy on my door step claiming to be looking for a skip who is known to live or to have lived in my house is who and what he says he is? Why should I waste my time talking to such a person? I have ZERO responsibility to do so. So, what happens if I take your advice and answer the door?

He tells me who he's looking for, I say I never heard of the dude, he says he thinks the dude is in my house. At this point am I supposed to just throw the door open and let a complete stranger march in and wander through my entire house? I don't think so. But Mr. Bounty Hunter says he considers my refusal to open the door to be probable cause to smash his way in. That's where I say he's wrong.

 

[NineseveN]

At this point am I supposed to just throw the door open and let a complete stranger march in and wander through my entire house? I don't think so. But Mr. Bounty Hunter says he considers my refusal to open the door to be probable cause to smash his way in. That's where I say he's wrong.

I agree, my issue is with skipping the entire "He tells me who he's looking for, I say I never heard of the dude," part and going right to the lock and load and prepare for boarding part.

I know some bounty hunters, forced entries are rare up here, perhaps not in your state, but they're rare...so to act as if every situation is one where you immediately assume the bounty hunter is up to no good and is going to breech will simply lead to a bad attitude and a breech, so we're not really doing a great job of avoiding, deescalating or deterring, now are we?

 

[tellner]

SomeKid, Through what he said and left unsaid a careful listener will have learned everything one needs to know about Mr. Murdock, his profession and his attitudes towards the work.