jnojr
Member
Ant Mod - Check your PMs! 
At last, BP tackles illegal immigration - inland!
- Thread starter Preacherman
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sturmruger
Member
It was nice of Ant Mod to post some of his favorite authors Essay.
Here is the part that he forgot to include. I hate to say it but this lady is a little off her rocker. I wonder what else that German shepherd told her. Maybe she had been sampling her "prescription marijuana" that night
Here is the part that he forgot to include. I hate to say it but this lady is a little off her rocker. I wonder what else that German shepherd told her. Maybe she had been sampling her "prescription marijuana" that night
sturmruger
Member
Actually I used to work for a guy that turned out to be a crook. Not only was he trying to get away with paying me cash he was paying several illegla aliens cash. After never getting a real paycheck I told the guy I was quiting.
Trust me he was a crook it wasn' just the fact that he was paying me cash he had a lot of schemes going.
I thought we were talking about illegal aliens.
Trust me he was a crook it wasn' just the fact that he was paying me cash he had a lot of schemes going.
I thought we were talking about illegal aliens.
Last edited:
O.F.Fascist
Member
Whats wrong with getting paid cash? Did he short change you?
If he was paying you what you earned I dont see how paying you cash makes him a crook?
joe sixpack
Member
Strumruger posts:
Just because most people refer to illegals by their nationality doesn't mean we are racist, it is simply the easiest way to identify who we are talking about. What else are we supposed to call them??
-------------------
The politik' correct term is "undocumented workers".
For anyone who feels "sad" , do yourself a favor a research the difficulties
attendant upon the illegal immigration situation. People in this thread
have made some good points.
And as has been posted Mexico is in a sorry sad state of affairs, and their illegal immigration encouragement allows the same crap to continue forever
as they have an alternative to actually getting the problems fixed.
Hey, guess what, I'm tired of paying for it.
cheers, ab
Just because most people refer to illegals by their nationality doesn't mean we are racist, it is simply the easiest way to identify who we are talking about. What else are we supposed to call them??
-------------------
The politik' correct term is "undocumented workers".
For anyone who feels "sad" , do yourself a favor a research the difficulties
attendant upon the illegal immigration situation. People in this thread
have made some good points.
And as has been posted Mexico is in a sorry sad state of affairs, and their illegal immigration encouragement allows the same crap to continue forever
as they have an alternative to actually getting the problems fixed.
Hey, guess what, I'm tired of paying for it.
cheers, ab
O.F.Fascist
Member
Nice essay, sounds like a smart dog.
I live in Escondido. Most of the illegal immigrants around here are soft spoken and work for everything they receive- they are not on welfare, nor do they suckle at the government's teat. They work constantly. They are here wishing to be Americans.
The "mexicans" that are living on welfare and joining gangs around here are all American citizens, usually third generation or later.
My grandfather was an illegal immigrant. He fled China to come to America, and become an American citizen. Under a false name, he acquired U.S. Citizenship and worked in his father's restaurant here. After he completed High School, he joined the Army for World War II. After the war, he was honorably discharged as a Sergeant, and became a drafting teacher, and later an administrator at Escondido High School.
While my mother was still young, the INS caught up with my grandfather. They confronted him, and addressed him by his real name, and went over the details of his false papers. He confessed. They told him that they appreciated his service to his country, and granted him his U.S. citizenship under his real name.
That was a long time ago. My grandfather loves this country with all his heart, and will do anything to defend it. Yet these days, if he had been a Mexican immigrant, and done what he had, he would have been deported.
Some people are inherently American at heart. Would you have denied my grandfather his citizenship- he who had come so far, who had escaped tyranny to seek the American dream that all of our ancestors came seeking? He didn't come here to steal, or to send money away, or to live on the struggles of other men. He came here to make his own way.
The "mexicans" that are living on welfare and joining gangs around here are all American citizens, usually third generation or later.
My grandfather was an illegal immigrant. He fled China to come to America, and become an American citizen. Under a false name, he acquired U.S. Citizenship and worked in his father's restaurant here. After he completed High School, he joined the Army for World War II. After the war, he was honorably discharged as a Sergeant, and became a drafting teacher, and later an administrator at Escondido High School.
While my mother was still young, the INS caught up with my grandfather. They confronted him, and addressed him by his real name, and went over the details of his false papers. He confessed. They told him that they appreciated his service to his country, and granted him his U.S. citizenship under his real name.
That was a long time ago. My grandfather loves this country with all his heart, and will do anything to defend it. Yet these days, if he had been a Mexican immigrant, and done what he had, he would have been deported.
Some people are inherently American at heart. Would you have denied my grandfather his citizenship- he who had come so far, who had escaped tyranny to seek the American dream that all of our ancestors came seeking? He didn't come here to steal, or to send money away, or to live on the struggles of other men. He came here to make his own way.
stealthmode
Member
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2004
- Messages
- 459
what angers me is when someone comes here (illegal or not) and doesnt want to become a citizen. they want all the priviliges and then when it suits them they go back to their original country or always talk about going back. i know too many people that came here and want to live and work but for some reason dont want to be citizens.
lee
Member
A few years ago I read in the local newspaper that a judge in San Diego doing arrainments counted the felony arrainments he was responsible for during a 3 month period. It seems that 60% of the offenders were illegal mexicans. The crimes they were charged with had nothing to do with their immigration status.
Check out the San Diego area hospitals, there are more births by illegal mexicans than by legal immigrants. These children are automatically U.S. citizens and their mothers and most of their family will live off our tax dollars, and/or the criminal proceedings of their extended family.
I see this in the SF bay area also. Go down to the Fruitvale and East 14th St. (renamed International Blvd to be P.C.) It looks like little Tiajuana with the street vendors selling food without a license or sanitation. Very few in this area speak english.
If someone wants to immigrate here legally then assimilate the culture and language like the people did years ago and made the country what it is I am all for it. If not send them back home, babies born here and all.
Lee
Check out the San Diego area hospitals, there are more births by illegal mexicans than by legal immigrants. These children are automatically U.S. citizens and their mothers and most of their family will live off our tax dollars, and/or the criminal proceedings of their extended family.
I see this in the SF bay area also. Go down to the Fruitvale and East 14th St. (renamed International Blvd to be P.C.) It looks like little Tiajuana with the street vendors selling food without a license or sanitation. Very few in this area speak english.
If someone wants to immigrate here legally then assimilate the culture and language like the people did years ago and made the country what it is I am all for it. If not send them back home, babies born here and all.
Lee
Really very unlikely, what we must remember we no longer live in the 1800's when ma & pa could come to America get 40 acres, raise 6 kids
and not be a burden on society and yes we lose something by not having
that, but in the end how many can we take, is there no limit to the numbers
we can support. Much of our open country/.borders policy got us 9/11,
we now live in an age where someone can carry in a small package a
large amount of death. It would seem to me better to stop the problem
at the border rather the confront it in our airports, shopping malls, etc.
Yes, I know cannot be done, however I would like to see us try.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
There's no one single source of Illegals, although, yes, Mexico is the largest due to proximity.
Not all illegals are the same as to attitude or behavior. Some are productive; some are drones. Some come here to work for part of the year and send money home and then go home. Some come here to try to become permanent residents and have a better life than "back there". Some come here with near-term pregnant wives to take advantage of our laws.
We pretty much all know all that. We pretty much all know of the fiscal and societal costs, as well.
The larger problem is the sheer size of the number of illegal aliens here. The last estimate I saw was some twelve million. Dealing with that is beyond our present capability.
Stipulate for the moment that we could close the borders to all but legal immigrants. How do we deal with twelve million people of this "target group"?
Whence cometh the money to enforce existing laws in a lawful manner? That is, more personnel in enforcement to find and sequester illegals. More personnel in the court systems to adjudicate the claims of whatever sort, as to status.
And a side note is that many of our employers would be hard put to find replacements. Our own system of laws has contributed to this situation in the first place...
I like to think I understand the problem fairly well. My problem is that I don't see any politically viable solution--which leaves me, once again, with my all-too-common closing:
Damfino,
Art
Not all illegals are the same as to attitude or behavior. Some are productive; some are drones. Some come here to work for part of the year and send money home and then go home. Some come here to try to become permanent residents and have a better life than "back there". Some come here with near-term pregnant wives to take advantage of our laws.
We pretty much all know all that. We pretty much all know of the fiscal and societal costs, as well.
The larger problem is the sheer size of the number of illegal aliens here. The last estimate I saw was some twelve million. Dealing with that is beyond our present capability.
Stipulate for the moment that we could close the borders to all but legal immigrants. How do we deal with twelve million people of this "target group"?
Whence cometh the money to enforce existing laws in a lawful manner? That is, more personnel in enforcement to find and sequester illegals. More personnel in the court systems to adjudicate the claims of whatever sort, as to status.
And a side note is that many of our employers would be hard put to find replacements. Our own system of laws has contributed to this situation in the first place...
I like to think I understand the problem fairly well. My problem is that I don't see any politically viable solution--which leaves me, once again, with my all-too-common closing:
Damfino,
Art
Art:
I don't have any clear answers either. But I think it's a big mistake too do nothing, let them continue to come, and eventually become legal and/or citizens.
In my view we should round up and deport as many as we can, and then establish a working Guest Worker Program that is effective and will allow the ones we want and need to legally return while barring the rest.
But given the realities this isn't likely to happen.
I don't have any clear answers either. But I think it's a big mistake too do nothing, let them continue to come, and eventually become legal and/or citizens.
In my view we should round up and deport as many as we can, and then establish a working Guest Worker Program that is effective and will allow the ones we want and need to legally return while barring the rest.
But given the realities this isn't likely to happen.
Waitone
Member
I think it is entire reasonable for a government to enforce its borders. There is nothing, I repeat for those hard of seeing, nothing more fundamental to the existence of a state than borders. The state will not exist without borders. Now what is evidently happening is the US is slowly but surely through the use of entangling alliances such as NAFTA, CAFTA, and FTAA moving its borders outward. If you think "Managed Trade" agreements are strictly economic agreements then you have not read one recently. They are blueprints for political integration. Economic integration is always used to facilitate political integration.
That said, we can control the borders. We simply do not have the economic will and hence the political will to stop criminal immigration. Both political parties have signed on to amnesty. Elements of the business community demand it. Government has agreed to accept the shift in costs from business to government. The only group which has not signed on is Joe and Martha Sixpack mainly because they have not a clue to what's happenin'.
Ours is a country of fault lines. One of the largest is the fault line between the ruling class and taxpaying class as it pertaines to criminal immigration. Both sides are hardening as no movement toward the center is evident. Yes, amnesty in conjunction with a work program is the solution but how many Joe and Martha Sixpacks will believe anything coming out of the ruling class. Bush has significant personal credibility but it drops to zero on the subject of criminal immigration. Simply put, Bush is a screaming liar. His December proposal was designed to do two things. Give V. Foxx a warm blow in the ear and to make the problem on the border worse. He did it deliberately knowing full well it would make the situation much worse in the short term. Why would he do something as criminal as that? Don't know, but I do think he deserves impeachment (the trial, not removal from office) for that one stunt alone.
All this will disappear once we have a major terror hit on the US that can be traced back to criminal border crossings and soft or lax enforcement. Unmitigated hell will break out and could well cause the downfall of the presidency and both politial parties. These people are betting the welfare of the US population on a social policy starkly at odds with the demands of warfare.
<Rant Closed>
That said, we can control the borders. We simply do not have the economic will and hence the political will to stop criminal immigration. Both political parties have signed on to amnesty. Elements of the business community demand it. Government has agreed to accept the shift in costs from business to government. The only group which has not signed on is Joe and Martha Sixpack mainly because they have not a clue to what's happenin'.
Ours is a country of fault lines. One of the largest is the fault line between the ruling class and taxpaying class as it pertaines to criminal immigration. Both sides are hardening as no movement toward the center is evident. Yes, amnesty in conjunction with a work program is the solution but how many Joe and Martha Sixpacks will believe anything coming out of the ruling class. Bush has significant personal credibility but it drops to zero on the subject of criminal immigration. Simply put, Bush is a screaming liar. His December proposal was designed to do two things. Give V. Foxx a warm blow in the ear and to make the problem on the border worse. He did it deliberately knowing full well it would make the situation much worse in the short term. Why would he do something as criminal as that? Don't know, but I do think he deserves impeachment (the trial, not removal from office) for that one stunt alone.
All this will disappear once we have a major terror hit on the US that can be traced back to criminal border crossings and soft or lax enforcement. Unmitigated hell will break out and could well cause the downfall of the presidency and both politial parties. These people are betting the welfare of the US population on a social policy starkly at odds with the demands of warfare.
<Rant Closed>
BryanP
Member
If he was paying his employees in cash it's quite likely no taxes were being paid. No matter your opinions on taxation that makes it illegal.
RepublicanMan
member
With any luck at all you'll go out of business.......it's business owners like you that screw the rest of the country by worrying more about making an easy buck than by pricing your services or items accordingly and hiring and paying Legal Immigrants and Americans to do the work.
O.F.Fascist
Member
I dont know much about the tax laws but if you are being paid in cash and the taxes arent being taken out then it is your responsiblity to record your earnings and pay your own taxes.
Then its up to you if you want to follow the laws if you want to let them know how much you are really making and send them what you owe them.
Or if you want break the laws and fudge the numbers or whatever.
Its your decision.
There is nothing wrong with being paid cash.
Warren
Member
It's been seven years now, and business is picking up.
I don't know how you would expect me to price my services so that "illegals" shun my service yet no one else does.
I currently employ no illegals, so you can rest easy on that. Though if, all (and I mean all) things considered I could make a bigger profit by hiring illegals I would. Since the only reason to go into business is to make the most money possible (without endangering anyone..etc.).
I am an American brought up to respect the the concept of free-market enterprise and hard-ball capitalism. I also respect the BoR, including that bit about FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION.
RepublicanMan
member
Well, at least you admit that you are a worthless piece of ????, that's more than most do.
:banghead: 
Augustwest
Member
nice
Langenator
Member
I've got a good inland enforcement mechanism that would catch a lot of illegals, at least the ones that are using fake documents to work at regular jobs. Its not one that the libertarian minded folks on this board would like much though.
Every job with a paycheck requires a W-2. A W-2 requires a SSN or TIN. Simply allow the IRS to run the number through the computers to ensure that it matches the name given. If it doesn't, the person can at least be arrested for falsifying tax documents or something of that nature. And let the IRS share the data with the BP and the INS.
Altnernately, or maybe in conjunction, you could set up something like NICS for SSN/TINs. Employers run the check as part of the hiring process-give them immunity from prosecution for hiring illegals if the number comes up clean. If it doesn't, they can refuse to hire the person. Drying up the supply of jobs would help reduce the problem.
Every job with a paycheck requires a W-2. A W-2 requires a SSN or TIN. Simply allow the IRS to run the number through the computers to ensure that it matches the name given. If it doesn't, the person can at least be arrested for falsifying tax documents or something of that nature. And let the IRS share the data with the BP and the INS.
Altnernately, or maybe in conjunction, you could set up something like NICS for SSN/TINs. Employers run the check as part of the hiring process-give them immunity from prosecution for hiring illegals if the number comes up clean. If it doesn't, they can refuse to hire the person. Drying up the supply of jobs would help reduce the problem.
Warren
Member
Of what?
Freedom?
Free-markets?
The ideals this country was founded on?
Live and let live?
Why capitalism is better than socialism?
Why individuals matter, are more important than whatever legislation some politician passes?
If you believe you have the right to control who I associate with, do you also believe you have the right to determine what fireamrs or other arms I have?
How about what I can say or print?
If you want to control me, just say so.
Look I know there are a lot of problems with border crossers. All of these problems are because:
1: There is a lot of welfare being flung around, end that and most of the problems go away.
2: The people who's land it is that the illegals are crossing on do not have the right, that is their rights have been taken, to deal with tresspassers as they ought to be able to.
Stop welfare, respect property rights. It's an easy one-two solution to the illegal problem. Won't be perfect but it will be a lot better than what is happening now.
7.62FullMetalJacket
Member
Good plan Langenator. I see no problem with running an "instant" check on employees. This could be one tool in the tool box to keep everyone honest.
Open borders and a welfare state can not coexist. The intent of the criminal trespasser is not important at all. Whether they are just here to make a better life is not my concern. They entered the country illegally. Some of those may work, some may loaf, some may tap into the system.
We have an immigration process. We are a nation of laws. I say that anyone here illegally should be afraid. Citizens that pay taxes are afraid of the IRS. Some of us here are afraid of ATFe. I say share the burden.
Stop screaming racism from the roofs. Most illegal aliens in the southewest are Mexicans due to the proximity of the apparently open border. If we called them "little brown people," then that would be racism and bigotry.
If we ended the welfare/nanny state, the problem would disappear.
Open borders and a welfare state can not coexist. The intent of the criminal trespasser is not important at all. Whether they are just here to make a better life is not my concern. They entered the country illegally. Some of those may work, some may loaf, some may tap into the system.
We have an immigration process. We are a nation of laws. I say that anyone here illegally should be afraid. Citizens that pay taxes are afraid of the IRS. Some of us here are afraid of ATFe. I say share the burden.
Stop screaming racism from the roofs. Most illegal aliens in the southewest are Mexicans due to the proximity of the apparently open border. If we called them "little brown people," then that would be racism and bigotry.
If we ended the welfare/nanny state, the problem would disappear.
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