ATF Agents Just Left My House

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Are you absolutely sure that you're in full complience with all the various federal firearm laws?

Chris, I have never done anything wrong in my life as far as firearms laws go. As said from the beginning of this thread, I want to go into a career that helps protect people and make sure the law is obeyed; I don't want to break it whenever I see an opportunity.

From what I have now read, 5 people total have gotten "visited" today.
 
I still am in the dark on how they identified you as a buyer of gun parts. Is this information gathered using the Patriot Act? To protect us from terrorists? Does the ATF think a gun owner who buys gun parts is a terrorist? Sad.
 
Cut and paste job

http://www2.wi.net/~len/news11.html

When a raid team shows up at your premises and announces (usually by breaking down your door, sometimes by killing your dogs and throwing flash bang grenades at your women and children) that they have a federal search warrant, you must instantly do several things. You must first of all mentally assimilate the fact that they are law officers rather than a rampaging motorcycle gang (which they often resemble in both appearance and behavior). Having identified them as law rather than outlaw, you must freeze in place in a non-threatening posture and attempt to stabilize the situation until some of their law-enforcement adrenalin (the most dangerous drug on the street) has bled off. If only a search warrant is involved, you must then recover your wits sufficiently to do the following:

(A) Try to note and record the identities of as many participants as possible, by name, agency, badge number, and physical description.
(B) Ask for a copy of the warrant.
(C) Disable -- not unplug, disable -- your telephones and fax machines.
(D) Gather your family, children and pets and leave the premises.
(E) Call your lawyer.
You may be prevented from doing some or all of the above things by legally illiterate agents, but that will simply lay the foundation for your own day in court.
A federal search warrant authorizes only the search of a specified premises and only the seizure of specifically described items. Corollary to the execution of a warrant, the law permits the agents to make a forcible entry if that becomes necessary after knocking and announcing their identity and purpose, to control the premises, and to take reasonable precautions for their own safety -- such as a pat down for weapons of those persons present and assigning an agent to watch over and accompany anyone moving about on the premises. The law authorizes the agents to prevent the destruction of evidence or contraband and it protects them against being assaulted or interfered with. It is a serious federal crime to assault a federal officer or to obstruct execution of the warrant. Don't turn a possible later indictment into a sure one. Never assist the raiding party in locating the items described in the warrant. They have the right to search, but not the right to find. Do not open locked compartments, safes or rooms for them or provide them with keys or combinations. Do not talk to the raiding officers other than to request identification and a copy of the warrant. Resist the compulsion to show what a good guy you are; these are not your friends and they are not there to help you.

A search warrant does not authorize agents to arrest you or anyone else on the premises (although assaulting the agents or forcibly interfering with the execution of the warrant will justify a warrantless arrest) and it does not authorize them to handcuff you, restrict you to a particular place or prevent you from leaving.

You have a perfect right to leave the premises and should do so immediately. If you are physically prevented from leaving, you have just been falsely arrested in violation of the Fourth Amendment and will have your recovery later in court as well as taking some of the other retaliatory measures promised above. You must get yourself and your family out of the house for several reasons:

(A) to avoid the personal insult, humiliation, provocation and indignities which many agents seem to enjoy;
(B) to avoid a potential life-threatening situation; and
(C) to avoid creating evidence against yourself (RULE ONE). There is no useful purpose your remaining on the premises can serve; if the agents are going to plant evidence or destroy property, they will do it whether or not you are present.
You will need as much information about identities, badge numbers and descriptions as you can manage in the minutes before you leave. These will be useful later when you assert or defend your rights. But they are not a reason to delay leaving the premises promptly. You are legally entitled to a copy of the warrant, but do not remain on the premises if you are refused.
You should disable your telephones and fax machines before leaving in order to prevent the agents from illegally seizing evidence (calls and faxes) which might come in while they are on the premises. Such items did not exist when the warrant was signed and cannot possibly be covered by the warrant. Their seizure will probably therefore be illegal; but it is better to prevent such seizures from even happening. If you are physically prevented from disabling your own property, go somewhere else and place incoming calls to all your lines and keep the circuits open.

Now, call your lawyer.
 
As it's already been said before. Sounds like you havd/had your act together. I want to thank you for responsible ownership. All to often gun owners are shown only to be morons. Good for you, glad everything went okay for you.
 
I still am in the dark on how they identified you as a buyer of gun parts. Is this information gathered using the Patriot Act? To protect us from terrorists? Does the ATF think a gun owner who buys gun parts is a terrorist? Sad.

There doesnt have to be a grand conspiracy here. How much do you want to bet that some bigwig over at the ATF just called paypal and said "hey there, you wanna show us all the records concerning a particular company in Germany?" and how much resistance do you think PayPal would really give them? I'm thinking that their answer was "Sure, you betcha you want us to mail them or fax them". PayPal has NEVER been a friend of gunowners, I really doubt that they would go out on a limb for your rights. The same goes for Ebay.
 
I don't understand one thing. Doesn't the Walther P99 come from the factory with a threaded barrel so as to attach a barrel weight and or a legally obtained suppressor?

Sounds like the BATF got the records from Kaeny exports and is looking for a bunch of suppressors or coke bottle adaptors, which I actually can see them labeling as constructive intent as what else are you going to use them for. Now assuming that with most law enforcement that you have your gun people and you have your people who don't know a lot technically about firearms that probabally explains why some folks had barrels and sight mounts taken while some did not. The ones who had stuff confiscated was probably done so by technically ignorant agents who are going to bring said parts back to the "Boss" to ask hey is this how you mount a suppressor or something to that effect.

It sounds like the only people who are truely going to go down for this is Kaeny's folks.

Is it right to knock on follks doors and take their legal items, of course not. Is the suppressor law stupid? Of course it is.

Is there anything you can really do about it right now....not really with the exception of being a hard ass to them which could very well bring a search warrant along with some pissed off troopers who may very well tear your house apart or torch your safes open.

I remember this guy selling P7M13 mags before the ban went away and always thought they were most likely gray market in nature. I never buy anything from out of the country. I figure buying from within the country "usually" means the seller is on the hook to make sure they followed all importation laws etc.

Good luck everybody.
 
ATF agent just called. I have to turn in my frame and 5" barrel.

These forms were illegal to import without filling out a Form 6 with customs, I think.

Going to the local office at 1500 to turn in the parts. Details will follow later.
 
Now they may stepped over the line

Since the frame and barrel are not the serialized parts, how would you declare them on a Form 6? I don't what you paid for those parts, but if they're valuable, maybe you should talk to a lawyer, yesterday. I think the warnings of others to not let these guys into your house may have proved true.
 
Form 6 (paragraph 9(b)) says that you must use it for importation of barrels and frames (receivers), amoung other non-trivial parts.

What kind of "frame" are we talking about here? You don't mean frame in the sense of a receiver (with S/N) do you? What other kind of "frame" does a P22 use?
 
Hmm, I missed the part about barrels. I don't own a P22 but the foregoing discussion indicates that the serial numbered "receiver" is the trigger group, not the frame. I guess it's a matter of interpretation whether the grip frame is non-trivial. If this is the way the ATF wants to run the show, I'd avoid importing any firearm parts without going through an importer.
 
I glanced over the Form 6 info but since I am not very good at legalese how would this relate to firearm accessories. For example what about ordering a scope, red dot or scope mount from someplace outside of the United States?

I would assume a magazine would be considered a firearm part and not an accessory since it is integral to the operation of the firearm.
 
Maybe some current TX resident

Should send mail to GWB at the ranch and ask about the witch hunt of small stuff. Maybe sugjest closing that office. Retire that federal program and save some money. Only good guys go through them for anything. They have so many lil bity rules to make anyone ordering from overseas a criminal.
 
Interesting read. Here we have these no good dirty rotten federal employees running around doing their jobs. They should have enough common sense to stop enforcing laws that people don't like. I say slit their scrotums, stuff a leg though it, and chase them around the block with a pick up truck.
 
Ankeny, you left out the fire ants. :D

Well, looks like one import company pushed the boundaries a little too much. Guess they will face the music.

Too bad you got caught up in it Sterling. :(
 
I doubt it Furious, this sounds like an import issue. Gunbroker would be resale and the scope would be enormous.

I think they'll keep following the paper trail of original orderers. If that leads to individual sales online? Maybe...
 
hehehe, this is funny:

Mvc-004x.jpg


Instructions are: Pay $200 NFA Tax, Open bottle, remove contents, affix to end of firearm, fire gun... Repeat!

Just make sure you don't forget to remove contents before you fire the gun! It's a $200.03 Silencer!
 
time check

ahhhh if USMC went for his appointment at 1500 right coast time.... it getting kind of late...yes? CHECK IN USMC !!!! Arc-Lite
 
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