ATF now has records of everyone who purchased from RH custom

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MachIVshooter said:
I'm not a lawyer. But I do understand the definition of evidence, and it'd be pretty hard to prove destruction of it if there was no way to prove you had it in the first place. But I digress....

Point remains, ATF has guidelines, and as long as at least three 1/4" wide metal displacing (torch) cuts are made, the receiver is no longer an MG, just scrap metal. More than three cuts (or total destruction of the receiver) also demils it.
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would they not have proof with the sales records and ATF forms?
 
would they not have proof with the sales records and ATF forms?
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OP never did post a link, but from what I gather, this wasn't a case of NFA stuff being sold as title I on a 4473. Just normal cash & carry. Without a lot of tech work for verification, emails, credit card receipts, etc. are just circumstantial; They have to be able to put the accused at the keyboard, which is pretty tough to do if an email or two is all you have; "well, my buddy's friend was here with him, asked if he could check his email on my machine. I said sure, didn't think he'd order illegal stuff" or "my friend said his card was maxxed, asked if he could use mine and reimburse me with cash. I let him".

Believable stories? Not really. Easy to prove untrue? Not at all. Identity theft is beyond commonplace these days, a person with hacker skills can make it look like they are anyone, anywhere, and it's not at all unusual for drug dealers and traffickers of other things to have contraband shipping to some random person's address and then camp out waiting for delivery. Wasn't but a couple weeks ago some lady had a bunch of dope delivered to her door, and a strange man come asking about a package shortly after. Made the news.

If ATF really is saying "we won't prosecute", it suggests to me that they know how difficult prosecution would be, and would rather just round the stuff up.
 
I can tell you FIRST hand how this goes. I didnt know until like 6 months after I bought this stuff that it was illegal. I almost destroyed it but then thought about i might need proof latter on that it was destoryed so I hid the things in the middle of no where in the woods. well about a month ago ATF special agent Jennifer Conway came to my house with 5 sheriff deputy with a list of everything i bought. Like an idiot I played dumb like I didn't know anything because I was scared. She said that they where already in the works to get credit card info and said that she would be back. I thought wow ok they don't have anything this is over with, WRONG. About 3 weeks ago she came back again with an entire crew, I was at work but they went to my house my dads house my grandmothers house looking for me. she left her number with my dad. I called her and she said that she now had the credit card info in hand as well as delivery signatures. long story short I said I would call her back in a short while. I hung up with her and called my lawyer he said he would call her and see what to do. He did and said that they had me and could make not only a NFA case but there is some new stuff they could get me with from Homeland Security. So he set up a meeting with her in his office the next day. I went for a hike and collected the stuff and took it with me to the lawyers office. This time just her and some guy from homeland security. the took an inventory took some photos ask me some questions about how the stuff arrived. I filled out a form for voluntary surrender of items they said that all was good now and I didn't have anything to worry about. They where not even interested in seeing my tax stamps for my legal suppressors. So thats my personal experiance, my advice to any one that has this stuff is call a lawyer tell him the situation and together you call the ATF to hand the stuff over. In this case they do not need the actual items to prosecute you for trafficking as they can prove you had them at some point. oh and she told me if i had destroyed them it would have been OK as long as i kept all the pieces as proof they are destroyed, but she also said if i had not kept the pieces as proof I would have been in "big trouble"
 
Came and seen me too, but I never got anything functional nor could it be functional. I sold it at a gun show long ago for 1/3 what I paid. It was a dummy.
 
They just knocked on my door and I wasn't home my wife **** herself and called me at work, I spoke with the agent and he told me he'll be there in 30 minutes. They had a form saying I purchased a LR and it was delivered to my house and $79.99 was transferred somehow. I said I never ordered one, well according to this you did, I said again I never ordered one and never received one and I never seen one when he showed me the picture. They said they will further investigate and I signed an afdavitt saying I never received one.
 
So I clicked on the link provided earlier in the thread. M16 receiver for sale (not surprisingly, no longer in stock). Close up pictures verify it is auto, not semiauto.

So what makes one think to order something like that online? First, we all know it's illegal o own without jumping through the hoops. Second, everything you do online is (or easily can be) subject to scrutiny.

I remember seeing the ads in Shotgun News for drop in sears and such. I always assumed it was a sting set-up. Full auto with no paperwork? Somehow i don't think the ATF is going to buy it.
 
Identity theft going on so criminals can get full auto parts and make it appear that it was someone else?
 
Now since I clicked on the link provided to see what it was about, am I the only one to now be worried that my IP address is on file somewhere since the ATF is watching this? I know, paranoia, but I can't help to think it. Wish I didn't click on the link.
 
I thought about that too, after looking around the website.

But I'm not gonna lose sleep worrying about it.
 
Umm...folks...with the current political climate towards guns, what makes you think they aren't already watching sites like this one? First things first, don't be stupid and do illegal things. If your going to be stupid and do illegal things you might want to reconsider discussing it at all, let alone on the Internet where it will never go away and can easily be traced back to the source. Lastly, if your going to be so stupid that you do illegal things and then talk about them openly on the Internet then you might need an 8x10 with 3 squares a day because you may not need to be in a position to hurt yourself. In fact go put on gloves and a bicycle helmet right now.
 
I haven't read the whole thread yet (and I hope I am not violating a forum rule by posting it) but while doing a google search of ATF RH Custom I came across this 10 year old thread from here of a similar situation.

ATF went knocking on doors about a German website that people were buying from. But the scary thing from this old thread is it looks like the OP didn't buy directly from the German website, but from Ebay. I assume the Ebay seller was the German company. The parts he bought were not illegal, they were just visiting him to see what he bought because they had record of him buying from the company

Now if you buy something illegal, it is your own fault, but the reason it is scary to me is, you could unknowingly buy something that is perfectly legal, but if the company is also doing something illegal you could get a visit from the ATF. When you buy something off say gunbroker, you have no idea what the company you are buying from may be selling elsewhere. What happens if you do not have record of what you bought or any proof?

They know you bought from a company selling illegal things, and you can't prove to them what you actually bought.

Anyway, here is the thread


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=115052
 
Well, first, all the new members, welcome to the forum.

Interesting that the way you all post is similar.

Second, we appreciate the heads up, but frankly, buying questionable parts isn't something that members do here straight up, then post about. I might be overreaching to say most of us would be smart enough not to purchase parts like this over the internet with CC's and tracking, but, there it is. Apparently lurkers have and decided to become registered members to warn us about it.

Thanks again, this will be entertaining.

"Knocking door to door."
"Five deputies."
Four new posters.
Red flags are popping up everywhere.
 
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Tirod said:
Well, first, all the new members, welcome to the forum.

Interesting that the way you all post is similar.

Second, we appreciate the heads up, but frankly, buying questionable parts isn't something that members do here straight up, then post about. I might be overreaching to say most of us would be smart enough not to purchase parts like this over the internet with CC's and tracking, but, there it is. Apparently lurkers have and decided to become registered members to warn us about it.

Thanks again, this will be entertaining.

"Knocking door to door."
"Five deputies."
Four new posters.
Red flags are popping up everywhere.
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I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. If you look at the link i posted it was started by a person who has been active on this board for over 10 years.

There is actually a very logical reason why people would register just to talk about this. If you google "ATF RH customs" this thread is the first thing to come up. If someone has been visted by the ATF for buying from RH customs then they will probably do an internet search about it leading them here.

Like you said most regular members here are probably less likely to buy this stuff, but there are people out there that do, and again this website and this thread in particular is the first thing that will pop up when looking for information regarding this. That would explain why you see (mostly) new posters telling these stories.

If you think this is just one person making up different logins then i would think a mod could confirm the IP address is the same or at least the location is close enough to confirm
 
Ten, your using a ten year old thread to justify the details in this one.

If you googled and only found this thread in evidence, the data only appears here - are there no other news outlets to back this up? It seems if the ATF was sweeping customers up by the hundreds to relieve them of unstamped NFA purchases it would be stirring up more interest than this. The media would be on it to prove making guns at home is evil and needs to stop.

The syntax of the posters is too similar, they all run on their sentences and use similar terms. None are giving us background and specific details. A report of a kaboom gets the same treatment, this shouldn't be accepted at face value without more substantiation.

If the ATF is "going door to door," with "five deputies," to make a show of force over items that are yet to be specified, it's too vague to support at face value.

Let's find 1) credible news outlets gloating over the ATF's victory hauling in the contraband, and 2) have the OP and the others contribute some detailed facts to support this.

The internet is a prime candidate for false reporting and we need to be diligent about the facts. If it is true many would be concerned about it, if there is no effort being made the moderators would like to close the thread as it's not genuine nor supportive of gun rights.
 
I'm not surprised that some shady shop is selling completely illegal "FA conversion parts" and even labels them as such ( !!) ...

what I'm surprised is that there are apparently really ignorant folks out there actually buying that stuff. I mean if you know what these parts are and how to install them ... you know pretty, pretty well that this is illegal.... :banghead:

on my list of "people to feel sorry for" these guys come in at #18,465
 
"most of us would be smart enough not to purchase parts like this over the internet with CC's and tracking, but, there it is"

mmmmh... how about NOT ordering the said parts to begin with? anywhere... not just online....

I don't think having a select fire M4 (which is basically useless for all scenarios the average gun owner will encounter... ) is worth several years in the slammer and a effed up life afterwards....
 
Tirod said:
Ten, your using a ten year old thread to justify the details in this one.

If you googled and only found this thread in evidence, the data only appears here - are there no other news outlets to back this up? It seems if the ATF was sweeping customers up by the hundreds to relieve them of unstamped NFA purchases it would be stirring up more interest than this. The media would be on it to prove making guns at home is evil and needs to stop.

The syntax of the posters is too similar, they all run on their sentences and use similar terms. None are giving us background and specific details. A report of a kaboom gets the same treatment, this shouldn't be accepted at face value without more substantiation.

If the ATF is "going door to door," with "five deputies," to make a show of force over items that are yet to be specified, it's too vague to support at face value.

Let's find 1) credible news outlets gloating over the ATF's victory hauling in the contraband, and 2) have the OP and the others contribute some detailed facts to support this.

The internet is a prime candidate for false reporting and we need to be diligent about the facts. If it is true many would be concerned about it, if there is no effort being made the moderators would like to close the thread as it's not genuine nor supportive of gun rights.
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Where did I say I only found evidence of it here? I said this thread was the first to show up, which is not surprising considering this is one of the largest, if not the largest, online gun community.

There is in fact several gun forums with members making the claim, not just here. There are lots of information regarding this out there. I was a little skeptical myself, that is why I did some searches on it. You are quick to accuse people of lying and mentioned shutting down the thread, how much have you looked into this other than this thread?

Also one of the stories here mentions a ATF officer by name, and i was able to verify that she is a real ATF officer. As far as a news story, i am not sure why any news outlet would carry it. It seems like a big story to us because we are gun people, but honestly a website selling illegal things is a dime a dozen and news stations are not going to care about every ATF officer doing their daily job.

Again you may be right and i was skeptical at first too, but if you do some reading other than this thread there is some other stuff out there
 
Ten, no doubt we are both curious about it.

I appreciate the effort you are making to sort out the credibility, can you give links to the other sites and their discussion? I found an old thread on arfcom. from this search:

http://www.bing.com/search?q=RH Cus...=-1&sk=&cvid=c2173848842843838e73d89d2c0bdd22

Perhaps other search terms would bring it up better, so far, nada.

Your links would go a long way to delve into the facts and show where this is an issue. So far, the lack of concrete evidence is the problem, lets work to show there is really a story behind it.

What office did that agent work out of?
 
Tirod said:
Ten, no doubt we are both curious about it.

I appreciate the effort you are making to sort out the credibility, can you give links to the other sites and their discussion? I found an old thread on arfcom. from this search:

http://www.bing.com/search?q=RH Cus...=-1&sk=&cvid=c2173848842843838e73d89d2c0bdd22

Perhaps other search terms would bring it up better, so far, nada.

Your links would go a long way to delve into the facts and show where this is an issue. So far, the lack of concrete evidence is the problem, lets work to show there is really a story behind it.

What office did that agent work out of?
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I will go back and look for the other forum threads, shortly. As far as the ATF agent, it looks like somewhere in AL. I just googled here name with ATF which brought up a couple of stories of convictions she had worked on which happened in AL, and a facebook thing with her ATF email.

Here is a Swedish news story about RH customs that cites the owner as an illegal arms dealer to the underworld

http://translate.googleusercontent....dlare/&usg=ALkJrhgZeRjLuR54_ujR2zZzZRPg3H_usA

Which came from this calguns.net thread on the same subject

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=845073
 
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Here is a Swedish news story about RH customs that cites the owner as an illegal arms dealer to the underworld

http://translate.googleusercontent....dlare/&usg=ALkJrhgZeRjLuR54_ujR2zZzZRPg3H_usA

Which came from this calguns.net thread on the same subject

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=845073

This is one from AR15 on the ATF visits from the ebay issue in my original post

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/303204_.html

I will search more later. I am on my phone right now, and was on a computer last night. I cant use my phone as effectively as my computer
 
infidel762 said:
He works in conjunction with a US seller, and the US seller is the one who got arrested now the one in Sweden, excuse me. The website is still up and has a new sign saying “open again for business” but they failed to mention that it’s now under supervision by the ATF haha.
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I've been wondering what kind of resources ATF has to supervise foreign companies in any way. I've got a bunch of M16/M14 lowers, some of which I literally use as paperweights at the office and they were made by a local company which used to sell them over the counter or by mail to anyone. In most European countries FA lowers and frames aren't regulated in any way, but I've never heard that numerous companies who CNC them would (or essentially, could) be supervised by US ATF or by local officials at ATF's request.

A few years ago M16 lowers were all the rage around here, lots of semi AR:s were built on them because they were cheaper and easier to source than brand name semi lowers. Unlike in the US, they're not jailbait, just regular gun parts.
 
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