Attn: This is NOT .357 sig vs. .357 magnum.

[Greg8098]

I posted something similar to this in the Revolvers forum and it turned into another caliber war and missed the entire point. I know that .357 sig can't touch the magnum when it's loaded balls-to-the-wall. I just heard that most factory .357 magnum loads, which are advertised at 1450 fps. from a 4 in. barrel, actually chronograph at around 1350 -1375 fps. Has anyone ever tested this. Repeating, this is NOT a caliber war.

 

[Cousin Mike]

I really should read carefully before I post...

 

[MCgunner]

just heard that most factory .357 magnum loads, which are advertised at 1450 fps. from a 4 in. barrel, actually chronograph at around 1350 -1375 fps. Has anyone ever tested this. Repeating, this is NOT a caliber war.

This would be a hot 125 grain factory load. I've fired factory loads over my chrony that weren't much more'n .38 +P. However, there are those available from places like Buffalo Bore that are much hotter, like a good hot handload. I haven't tried a Buffalo Bore (a little expensive), but just going by those that have. I don't know that they make a 125 grainer, though. Their 180s I've looked at were white hot by the claims.

Energy wise, whatever bullet, expect about 600 ft lbs from a good load out of a 4 inch revolver and about 500 ft lbs from one of the run of the mill "hot" factory loads. That has been my experience. I don't know that a revolver loaded with run of the mill factory stuff is any better'n the .357 Sig. Actually, I prefer a 9mm +P when fired out of a pocket sized gun. It oft times makes MORE juice than the .357 out of a 2" barrel, believe it or not. The .357 requires barrel length. It shoots a slow powder to get its best performance. From 3" and up it's definitely a good load, but it's more flash bang than performance out of a snubby. But, out of a 4" or 6.5" barrel with heavy bullets, it makes a good hunting load or toothy critter defense. That's why I have liked the round. It's among my favorite rounds and if I could have just one caliber gun, it'd be a .357 magnum revolver (which is also a .38 of course).

I don't think the .357 out of combat length barrels has anything on any other major caliber for self defense, though. The .45 ACP can make as much energy. The .357 Sig, the .40 S&W, even the +P or +P+ 9mm are fine major caliber defense rounds IMHO. It's just a matter of personal preference and a lot of times that's based on myth or which you learn with first or whatever. I started on revolvers and my first major caliber gun was a brand new Ruger Security Six in .357 Magnum, so it's kind of dear to my heart. I've never been without at least one .357 Magnum revolver and own 3 at the moment. Of course, I own a dozen or so revolvers and only 4 major caliber (and that includes a .380ACP if you count that major) semi autos. I'm not counting .22s. I think it's also a matter of which platform you prefer. I carry an auto a lot, but I prefer revolvers for most of my shooting and use other than concealed carry and even then I'll often tote a revolver.

 

[grendelbane]

If the comparison is kept to 4" .357 Mag barrels and less, and the ammunition selected is kept to the 125 grain range as loaded by major manufacturers, preferred by most for self defense, then there is no significant difference in the ballistics of either cartridge.

Most of the revolver bullets will expand more quickly and penetrate less deeply than the 357 SIG bullets.

Individual examples of either type will be found that will significantly out-perform the rest of the pack.

9x23mm Winchester is another cartridge which belongs in this comparison. I suspect that with factory ammunition and guns it would come out at the top of the heap when 125 grain bullets are used.

This is conjecture on my part, as I have not had a statistically significant number of pistols of all 3 calibers to actually chronograph. However this has been the case with over a dozen pistols and almost that many different factory loads.

 

[grimjaw]

The .357 Magnum 125gr factory loads (Federal & Winchester) that I chrony'd this year would not reach 1400 fps, and that's out of a 4" GP100. They averaged about 1350-1375. With an extra 2" of barrel, I'm sure they could do better, and an extra 12" of barrel will most certainly have them reach 2000+ fps (chrony'd that).

IMO, the beauty of a revolver chambered for .357 Magnum isn't that it's the ultimate self defense cartridge or that it's significantly better than .357 SIG. It's that two chamberings (.357/.38) are rolled into one, and you can go up and down the scale like a musical instrument. .357 SIG has the same tune over and over again.

jm

 

[The-Fly]

Golden Saber's 125gr in 357mag is pretty wimpy. I have a 6" 686 and they do about mid 1300's out of my gun. Kinda defeats the purpose of a 357 in my opinion.

 

[MCgunner]

IMO, the beauty of a revolver chambered for .357 Magnum isn't that it's the ultimate self defense cartridge or that it's significantly better than .357 SIG. It's that two chamberings (.357/.38) are rolled into one, and you can go up and down the scale like a musical instrument. .357 SIG has the same tune over and over again.

I would add to that the ability of the revolver to handle very heavy loads/bullets for outdoor use on big critters. The Sig round is a pure self defense round and the auto is a better platform for law enforcement, no question from me of that. That is the Sig's reason for being. I don't, however, think it's any major improvement over its parent case, the .40 S&W. I have yet to see the bottle necked cartridge that had much if any advantage over its parent, thinking .40 Corbon, .32 NAA, that sort of thing. They just shoot a smaller diameter, lighter bullet faster for the same energy levels. I fail to see the significance. I think the Sig was a brilliant marketing ploy, but beyond that, I don't need one in my collection. Anything the Sig round can do, I can get done with my .45 using +P, let alone my revolvers. But, that does NOT mean that I think it's an ineffective round! I just think it's a re-invention of the wheel, that's all.

If I was an auto loader type of guy, for POWER, I'd look to the 10mm. In my mind, the 10mm is the last truly significant advance in service automatic ballistics. I would sorta like to have one. There's not much variety in 10s and I don't know that I care about carrying an auto in the woods, so it's not a high priority with me. A Smith M610 would be WAY neat, though! I cannot quite understand why the 10 fell so far from favor. It truly is a cut above any other auto pistol caliber capable of being chambered in a service sized automatic.

 

[PO2Hammer]

I read an article comparing the two with similar sized handguns (5" Glock vs. 4" revolver, baby Glock vs. 2" snubby revolver)
With bullets in the 124/125 range, the Sig auto round held the edge in velocity.
It was not untill the revolvers were 6" in length did they pass the auto round for speed.
This was with corbon, federal .357sig ammo and federal, remington magnum ammo IIRC.
Of course it's not a perfect comparison between a 3.5" auto barrel and a 2" revolver barrel, but they factored in cylinder length and overall gun size for a practical comparison.
Add the usual disclamer about heavy bullets etc...

 

[Cosmoline]

I just heard that most factory .357 magnum loads, which are advertised at 1450 fps. from a 4 in. barrel, actually chronograph at around 1350 -1375 fps. Has anyone ever tested this. Repeating, this is NOT a caliber war.

What bullet weight are we talking about here?

 

[Greg8098]

Only talking about 125 grain bullets. I thought that would be kind of obvious considering that the sig round was developed to be comparable with the 125 grain magnum round from a 4 inch barrel.
I've never heard of a 115 gr. or 147 gr. .357 magnum round.

 

[Seven For Sure]

The only 125 gr. 357sig load that claims 1450 fps from a 4" is DT. Most others are 1350-1400. The DT 125 will hit 1600 fps from my Glock 24 w/ 357sig barrel. There is no comparison. Different calibers, different platforms.

 

[gandog56]

Can't say, as my .357 has a 6" barrel, It is not my choice for a home defense gun. Too loud, too powerful, and too big a ball of flame out of the front. I have wanted to try a .357 sig, but with no experirnce I sure wouldn't pretend I know all about it and give advice. But I do like the ones where you can switch barrels between the .357 sig and a .40 S&W. The forty cal for practice, and the .357 sig for defense, seems like a good deal all around,

 

[VA27]

Back several years ago when I tested the 357Sig and 40S&W as a possible replacement for our 357 Magnum revolvers, I discovered that the 125gr 357Sig out of the Glock31 was HOTTER than the 125gr Magnum round out of the 681 that I was issued. The hottest Sig round that I tested was the Remington Yellow Box at around 1451fps; 150fps faster than the Magnum round out of that particular revolver. The best that the Magnum would do out of my beat-up old 681 was 1350 and most were in the 1280 to 1325 range.

Apparently the Sig round is also very efficent. A friend of mine built a lever-action Marlin for the 357Sig. He was hoping to equal the Magnum velocities he gets out of his Magnum lever gun. It didn't happen. The Sig round is at its best in service sized handguns. I hope this helps.

 

[Skywarp]

I got similar results when I tested my SIG 239 vs a Model 60. We were testing concealability vs energy. His Model 60 had a 3" barrel but was nearly and inch longer than my 239 and obviously fatter . The average velocity for the SIG was 1394 FPS whereas we were getting 1342 for the MAG. I get 8 rounds and he gets 5.


Both were shot using hand loads. My doubletap GD's will exceed those numbers. His Golden Sabres I dont think get anywhere near that. If he used doubletap he might beat me.

 

[MCgunner]

Out of a 2" gun, my 9mm beats or equals most .357 magnum loads when fired from a 3" gun. Stands to reason the Sig would out of short barrel guns. That's why I'm not too hot on .357s in pocket guns, well, besides the fireball from hell, the recoil, and the ear splitting noise. The .357 Mag starts to perform in a 3" gun. I'm getting a tad over 500 ft lbs with my handloads (hotter than most store bought). But, with factory, I probably would still be in the 450 ft lbs range where my pocket nine gets 410 ft lbs. 4" guns are minimum to extract real performance from factory .357 magnum.

I think the SP101 with a 3 1/16" barrel is a pretty dandy little self defense revolver. It'd be my ideal for the .357 as a carry gun. My 3" gun is a Taurus M66, a little heavier, and bulkier, but I can still carry it under a loose T shirt IWB pretty easily. The SP101 would be less of a lump, though.

Like I say, I don't really think the differences in 9mm +P, .45, .357 mag or Sig, .40 S&W, or even the .38 FBI load amount to a hill of beans. They all must be well placed and it's best to put more than one into the target kill zone to get a stop. Which ever you can do that with is best for you. The .357 full house loads in even a medium frame gun is a handful for a lot of shooters. If you can't shoot it fast and accurate, you're better served with a .38 or a 9mm or .357 Sig or a .40 all of which are easier to shoot well.

JMHO of course. Hey, I LIKE the .357 magnum, though, one of my all time favorites. It was my first major caliber handgun. I shot .38s in it for a long time, though, until I finally trained myself with magnum firearms. Heck, now I can shoot .44 mag just fine, but I didn't get to that point over night. It first took getting a place to regularly shoot and then multiple trips to the range working on it. And, I still have to admit I don't like small, light J frames in the caliber.

 

[Greg8098]

Thank you chronograph users!

Thanks VA27 ( and the responders after that ), finally someone who actually got the point of this thread. It's not about which one is more powerful, has more potential, or which is the better stopper, only chronograph results and solid factual numbers under a controlled circumstance .


Maybe the thread should have been titled- .357 sig 125 gr. vs. (COMMON FACTORY) .357 magnum 125 gr. But that's a mouthful huh ?

 

[Skywarp]

It could go either way but the firearms world is so stuck in ruts its hard for people to see there are alternatives.

Once people get their favorite caliber, in a certain platform. That's it. Nothing else is needed of that type and there is no reason to even discuss other things.