White Horseradish
Member
A Hi-Point carbine in this round will become hugely popular.
Ballistic gelatin test results: 7.62x25mm Tokarev
- Thread starter Brass Fetcher
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@ JE223
I would definitely like to see the Wolf HP ammo test.
As regards the case in my file, I never saw any of the bullet fragments or the insert. They were embedded in the bone and not recovered at the time of the surgery (it was unsafe to do so). AFTE members helped me identify the insert by its contour and I was able to duplicate the appearances of that insert with a 7.62 x 25 S&B sample I got here in the UK.
Here is a steel-jacketed, steel-cored bullet from a 7.62 x 25 S&B cartridge:
I would definitely like to see the Wolf HP ammo test.
As regards the case in my file, I never saw any of the bullet fragments or the insert. They were embedded in the bone and not recovered at the time of the surgery (it was unsafe to do so). AFTE members helped me identify the insert by its contour and I was able to duplicate the appearances of that insert with a 7.62 x 25 S&B sample I got here in the UK.
Here is a steel-jacketed, steel-cored bullet from a 7.62 x 25 S&B cartridge:
OP
OP
Brass Fetcher
Member
Nice Bullet!
Here is the S&B bullet, from the gelatin block:
I was diddling around with numbers just now, looking at whether a more modern gun could take the pounding of the 7.62x25mm, without any changes to the frame. Here is what I found (these are 'back of envelope' estimations).
Firing the standard 85gr round at 1800 ft/sec (extra insurance against a kB), which is 85gr*1800ft/sec = 153000 units.
A .45ACP firing a 230 grain bullet at 800 ft/sec ('practice' ammunition) is 230gr*800ft/sec = 184000 units of recoil.
A .40S&W at 180gr and 1000 ft/sec is 180000 units of recoil.
So, it seems to be quite reasonable to chamber the 7.62x25mm on a .45ACP frame/slide or even on a .40S&W.
Many folks have contacted me regarding the Wolf JHP... please stay tuned for that round ... the next block will be alot more interesting, and will include five different bullets/loads, if all goes well.
JE223
Here is the S&B bullet, from the gelatin block:
I was diddling around with numbers just now, looking at whether a more modern gun could take the pounding of the 7.62x25mm, without any changes to the frame. Here is what I found (these are 'back of envelope' estimations).
Firing the standard 85gr round at 1800 ft/sec (extra insurance against a kB), which is 85gr*1800ft/sec = 153000 units.
A .45ACP firing a 230 grain bullet at 800 ft/sec ('practice' ammunition) is 230gr*800ft/sec = 184000 units of recoil.
A .40S&W at 180gr and 1000 ft/sec is 180000 units of recoil.
So, it seems to be quite reasonable to chamber the 7.62x25mm on a .45ACP frame/slide or even on a .40S&W.
Many folks have contacted me regarding the Wolf JHP... please stay tuned for that round ... the next block will be alot more interesting, and will include five different bullets/loads, if all goes well.
JE223
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sfhogman
Member
The gentleman who runs our local gunshop is an emigre from Russia. After buying a CZ52 from him, I asked him the reason for the small, speedy round.
He smiled and said, "Vinter clothing".
Not to mention Kevlar helmets.
Jeff
He smiled and said, "Vinter clothing".
Not to mention Kevlar helmets.
Jeff
The S&B used in the test was not attracted to a magnet. Neither the case nor the bullet contained appreciable amounts of ferrous metals.
The Norinco and the Chinese marked ammo was in copper-washed steel cases with a bullet that was attracted to a magnet, the New Generation was in brass cases with a bullet that was attracted to a magnet.
The Norinco and the Chinese marked ammo was in copper-washed steel cases with a bullet that was attracted to a magnet, the New Generation was in brass cases with a bullet that was attracted to a magnet.
I'd be interested to see that test also--but we'd have to come up with a barrel...
@ JohnKSa and JE223
I would dearly like samples of those bullets (from either of you, whichever is most convenient) for the purposes of deflection testing in a magnetic resonance scanner.
I would like samples of the ferrous and non-ferrous versions, no need to fire them.
Do you have two of each that you can pull from the cases for me?
I would dearly like samples of those bullets (from either of you, whichever is most convenient) for the purposes of deflection testing in a magnetic resonance scanner.
I would like samples of the ferrous and non-ferrous versions, no need to fire them.
Do you have two of each that you can pull from the cases for me?
Manedwolf
member
The only drawback I can see to the 7.62x25 is, well...try firing it at night. The muzzleflash is rather extreme, and tends to ruin your nightvision, but I think that might be to do with the propellants...?
At least with the S&B. I wonder how it'd do as a hollowpoint with low-flash powder? I absolutely love my Tokarev, and it'd definitely be on me somewhere in a post-disaster walkaround as a "bad guys in vehicle" weapon, but it is a SA with an afterthought safety that's iffy. The only safe way to carry it is unchambered, so I've heard, and the single-stack mag doesn't hold enough compared to modern pistols.
If Taurus came out with a new doublestack DAO Millenium Pro in this caliber, and Cor-Bon perhaps made a Powrball round in this caliber to deal with the muzzle velocity stabilization, I'd be all over that!
As a note, though...since this caliber can happily pierce anything short of Level III armor, it'd likely immediately be called a "Cop-Killer".
At least with the S&B. I wonder how it'd do as a hollowpoint with low-flash powder? I absolutely love my Tokarev, and it'd definitely be on me somewhere in a post-disaster walkaround as a "bad guys in vehicle" weapon, but it is a SA with an afterthought safety that's iffy. The only safe way to carry it is unchambered, so I've heard, and the single-stack mag doesn't hold enough compared to modern pistols.
If Taurus came out with a new doublestack DAO Millenium Pro in this caliber, and Cor-Bon perhaps made a Powrball round in this caliber to deal with the muzzle velocity stabilization, I'd be all over that!
As a note, though...since this caliber can happily pierce anything short of Level III armor, it'd likely immediately be called a "Cop-Killer".
Geronimo45
Member
"The muzzleflash is rather extreme" Eliminates the need for a tac light right there. If they come out with a standard model w/threaded barrel, it could come with a flash hider.
DMK
Member
It's a sabot round. Uses the regular barrel.
OP
OP
Brass Fetcher
Member
Both the Timbs and Wolf JHP can be done...
I am willing to test both the Timbs cartridge and the Wolf JHP in 7.62x25mm, although I will probably have to make another gelatin block to do so. As it stands right now, the next block will be shot with 4-5 American made JHPs. I'm not sure what will be left of the block after this test event!
The best way I can see to do this is to go to the main page of my website and click on the 'Donate' image. I've recieved a few offers of ammunition donation straight to my door, but I am planning another order from Midway for the remainder of the supplies that I need for test 3, so the Wolf at least, would fit on that order. "I work for tips".
JE223
I am willing to test both the Timbs cartridge and the Wolf JHP in 7.62x25mm, although I will probably have to make another gelatin block to do so. As it stands right now, the next block will be shot with 4-5 American made JHPs. I'm not sure what will be left of the block after this test event!
The best way I can see to do this is to go to the main page of my website and click on the 'Donate' image. I've recieved a few offers of ammunition donation straight to my door, but I am planning another order from Midway for the remainder of the supplies that I need for test 3, so the Wolf at least, would fit on that order. "I work for tips".
JE223
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OP
OP
Brass Fetcher
Member
Private donation recieved
Look for the Wolf JHP and .223 Timbs to be tested three blocks from now. Many thanks to "anonymous" for the fees to cover the test.
Does anyone have any experience with the .223 Timbs? What kind of bullets can you use?
Hmmm... How receptive is Taurus to making guns in 'custom' calibers? How about we call it the 8mm THR Magnum?!
Look for the Wolf JHP and .223 Timbs to be tested three blocks from now. Many thanks to "anonymous" for the fees to cover the test.
Does anyone have any experience with the .223 Timbs? What kind of bullets can you use?
Hmmm... How receptive is Taurus to making guns in 'custom' calibers? How about we call it the 8mm THR Magnum?!
Novus Collectus
Member
Not sure what you mean by "what kind of bullets" can be used in the .223 Timbs since last I heard (two years ago about), Quality Cartridge only loaded one bullet for the .223 Timbs. This is what it says on his box:
.223 Timbs
50 gr SXSP/Sabot
(whatever that means)
They are soft points, but the tips all seem to be somewhat flattened or extremely dull.
If you want to make some yourself, you will have to grind down the sabot to make room for more powder, or whatever it is that he did to make the Accellerator sabot smaller.
.223 Timbs
50 gr SXSP/Sabot
(whatever that means)
They are soft points, but the tips all seem to be somewhat flattened or extremely dull.
If you want to make some yourself, you will have to grind down the sabot to make room for more powder, or whatever it is that he did to make the Accellerator sabot smaller.
PotatoJudge
Member
JohnKSa, you may have been thinking of the 22 reed express.
https://shop.reedsammo.com/categoryNavigationDocument.hg?categoryId=50
http://www.reedsammo.com/images/Img34.gif
https://shop.reedsammo.com/categoryNavigationDocument.hg?categoryId=50
http://www.reedsammo.com/images/Img34.gif
I did know that there was a .22 round based on the 7.62x25mm, but I really hadn't looked into it much. I had assumed that it was a necked down cartridge, not an "accelerator" round. Looks like there's one of each!
This is very interesting...
http://www.reedsammo.com/Page.html
Looks like the performance is very similar to the .223 Timbs.
Nightcrawler
Member
Interesting.
A 7.62x25mm revolver wouldn't work out so well. Bottlenecked cartridges complicate revolvers.
Besides, a .357 FMJ will give you similar penetration.
It would be interesting if somebody would make a modern gun in this cartridge. 25mm is a long case length though; you'd be looking at .45/10mm framed guns most likely. Still, you could fit a lot of rounds in a double stack. A full-sized Glock in this cartridge could probably fit eighteen rounds or more. Add a 6-7" aftermarket barrel and you'd have some serious muzzle velocity going on, great for small game hunting.
A 7.62x25mm revolver wouldn't work out so well. Bottlenecked cartridges complicate revolvers.
Besides, a .357 FMJ will give you similar penetration.
It would be interesting if somebody would make a modern gun in this cartridge. 25mm is a long case length though; you'd be looking at .45/10mm framed guns most likely. Still, you could fit a lot of rounds in a double stack. A full-sized Glock in this cartridge could probably fit eighteen rounds or more. Add a 6-7" aftermarket barrel and you'd have some serious muzzle velocity going on, great for small game hunting.
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