battle rifle for home protection?

[WheelMan]

So I've got this new FAL i've been playing with.

Whenever I get a new weapon I usually have some specific purpose in mind (sometimes it's just "for fun") but I also like to spend some time thinking about how I could press each weapon into other sorts of duty. Obviously hunting, punching paper, and competion is fairly straight forward for the .308, but home defense is more of a challenge.

My main armament at home is an M590 so this is more of an academic thing than a real practicle need for me, but I thought it might be fun.

I'm thinking for a .308 against humans at home ranges a handload is a must. The FAL may be particularly well suited for this as you can load the rounds down and turn up the gas. a lightweight, highly expanding bullet, loaded to the low end of it's velocity spectrum would be best. Speer makes a bullet (I can't seem to find it on their webpage, but it's in my Speer manual) it looks like a .30 JHP handgun bullet, if that would feed in the autorifle I think it would be perfect. It was 100-115 grain I think.

No matter what you do a .308 that will cycle the action is going to be some pretty strong medicine, and shooting up your neighbors is going to be an issue, but maybe not anymore than a .233 with the right load.

 

[Deep Blue]

I've been wanting to try some of the 110gr Hornady TAP ammo. Word is they fragment like a giant 5.56mm round.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Given that my house has thin wall and that my neighbor's house is like 10 feet from mine, I wouldn't dream of using my FAL for home defense. That bullet'll sail through an awful lot.

However, try Hornady TAP ammo. I've heard it's very good at limited penetration.

 

[russlate]

Does Remington still make 308 accellerators ( saboted 223 sp/hp in plastic 308 shotcup? IIRC they were made in 30-06, 308, and 30-30 calibers.

 

[Rebar]

You might be better off fixing the bayonet and using it that way, rather than firing full power rounds indoors.

 

[AnklePocket]

Probably not the way to go for traditional home defense, but not a bad thing to have on hand just in case. A few nights ago an electical transformer a few hundred feet away from our home blew up. There was a series of massive blue lights, a puff of smoke that went 50 feet (or more) up, a serious buzzing noise and the electicity went out. We had not even a clue as to what was going on. The first thought was some sort of attack. My DSA Carbine was the first thought. So as to not sound too paranoid - it was very, very strange.
The 590 might be better for indoors, though.

 

[WheelMan]

I'll have to poke them with the barrel... post ban and all you know.

Actually my 590 does have a bayonet lug.

Like I said, just for discussion, I value my hearing too much to set this sucker off in here.

 

[WheelMan]

Well I double posted that and since I can't seem to delete it I'll take this opertunity to mention that all you guys are really swell and I like guns.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Well, I'm certainly not going to test my theory, but my impression is that a .308 would pretty much skewer the 10-12 houses or so that are lined up neatly on my left.

 

[El Tejon]

Wheel, you have your head on straight. Way to think of the Four Rules and Problem #2!

 

[WheelMan]

Um... Maybe it's not as straight as you think. What's problem #2?

 

[Balog]

I'd think the main use for an FAL would be to counter an aggressor in a vehicle, or who was behind cover. Both of these would probably take place outside your home.

 

[Jeff White]

Balog said;

I'd think the main use for an FAL would be to counter an aggressor in a vehicle, or who was behind cover.

There isn't anything short of an M2 .50 BMG or a dedicated antitank weapon that is really reliable against a typical car. The FAL would be great for teaching the aggressor the difference between cover and concealment, but stopping vehicles is a different proposition altogether.

Jeff

 

[Sven]

Jeff: How would 338 Lapua fare against an engine block with the right projectile?

Battle rifles seem to leave something to be desired as a launching platform in a defensive situation. To me, rifles are the ultimate offensive tool, shotguns the best home defensive long arm.

 

[FireInTheHole]

.308 not enough for a car? What about .308 AP? I think 20 rd of 7.62x51mm AP would settle most mobile problems.

And yes, us peons can own and shoot .308 AP.

 

[vrwc]

Jeff, thats great "teaching the aggressor the difference between cover and concealment" almost fellout of my chair laughing at that one You have to hand it to a lead launching platform that can:
a. teaching the aggressor the difference between cover and concealment
b. show them what makes the green grass grow via bayonett
c. can be used as a club
d. can really reach out and touch someone

What Seven said is correct about a rifle being beter suted as an offensive weapon , indoors especialy.

Most of the really great home defense long guns are not long enough to avoid requiring the nifty $200 tax stam that joe public can't get w/o paying a billion times what the weapon is worth.

If I wasn't worried about NFA regs a true m4 or mp5 would be my first choice for hd.
I have 5.56 and 7.62x39 and 7.62x51 semi auto rifles kept ready inside but if i hear a bump in the night i ususaly grab a 12ga and pistol, out of consideration for the rest of the homes in the area( in my block 5 out of 5 houses are quite well armed so if we all opened up with rifles there would be good chance of friendly fire, all of the guys on the block use shotguns/pistols for that reason)

 

[goon]

I have some 308 bullets made out of compressed powdered metal.
They would probably work pretty well for what you want them for, but you would have to test them on something soft first.
They are called Sinterfire .

 

[TODD3465]

Take a good look at the SPEER 125 gr "TNT" JHP. This is my personal varmint and self-defense load for .308.

Tapered nose insures reliable feeding, and is designed to fragment on impact. Works just great in my M1-A.They also give accuracy on par with match bullets.

You can get then in 500rd bulk amounts and load up a bunch; which is what I did.

According to my ammo inventory list I still have 1095rds of them loaded up.

 

[Jeff White]

Sven,
I haven't got a lot of antivehicle experience with anything but military weapons.
The trouble with vehicles is that you think human beings are hard to reliably stop, vehicles are even worse. The problem would be making the hit on the vital spot with the 338 Lapua. How long do you think it would take the vehicle to stop even if you did hit the engine block? Lets face it, the only reason most of us would ever be shooting at a vehicle would be to stop it from running us down. So the bad guy is coming through the gate at say 25 miles an hour and you start putting rounds into the engine compartment. How many do you think it will take to cause enough damage so the vehicle is stopped? This is an iffy thing with a 7.62mm belt fed.

FireInTheHole,
The same goes for 7.62 AP. How big a hole do you think your going to put into that engine with a 20 round mag of it? Considering how it will bounce around once it goes through the sheet metal, you sure aren't guaranteed you'll put 20 rounds into a vital enough spot to disable the vehicle immediately. In the mean time, it's still coming at you at 25 mph and as soon as it's close enough they detonate the car bomb or whatever scenario you envision shooting at a vehicle in.

Jeff

 

[DMK]

So the bad guy is coming through the gate at say 25 miles an hour and you start putting rounds into the engine compartment.

Why even bother with the engine? It's not going to overheat or sieze in time to save you. If somebody was trying to run me down with a vehicle right now, I'd start firing at the hood, just below the base of the windshield, right in front of the driver. I don't think the firewall of even a full size truck will be very effective at stopping 20 or 30 rounds of 150gr. FMJ.

Of course, if it's a car bomb, nothing short of concrete and steel barriers are going to stop it, live driver or dead driver.

As far as a battle rifle for home protection, the only realistic scenario I can see for that in my rural neighborhood is wild animals. For that I keep 180gr. softpoints loaded on strippers in a butt pouch on a Mosin-Nagant carbine kept somewhere convenient in "ready mode". If I didn't have the Mosins, I'd probably use the FAL with a mag full of soft points for this, assuming that it fed them reliably.

Of course, I also have more than a few surplus FMJ loaded in Garand bandoliers, FAL mags and AK mags for the perhaps unrealistic scenarios as well.

 

[JShirley]

There are several varmint bullets that should offer minimal penetration. Find one that reliably functions in your weapon, buy 7 1 gallon water jugs, line them up, and see if the bullet will stop between jugs 3 and 5. If it penetrates past jug 6, try another round.

 

[Jeff White]

DMK said,

Why even bother with the engine? It's not going to overheat or sieze in time to save you. If somebody was trying to run me down with a vehicle right now, I'd start firing at the hood, just below the base of the windshield, right in front of the driver. I don't think the firewall of even a full size truck will be very effective at stopping 20 or 30 rounds of 150gr. FMJ.

You'd be lucky to get straight through hits into the driver via that route. You have to penetrate the hood, all of the junk mounted on the firewall and all of the junk at the rear of the dash on the inside of the vehicle.

Shooting through the glass won't give you any better results either. You're not going to physically disable the vehicle with 20 rounds of 7.62 AP and your chances of getting a disabling hit on the driver with it aren't much better.

Jeff