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Beginers deer rifle

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by fpjeepy05, Nov 14, 2012.

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  1. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    I wouldn't ever recommend a marginal cartridge for deer and that's what the .243 is. I know lots of folks like it and that is fine. Nobody gets deer fever like a teenager and light bullets don't like shoulders. Given the short ranges involved, I would strongly recommend a .357 in either a levergun or a single shot. Stoke it with 180gr Gold Dots.
     
  2. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    I shared your thoughts about the .243 until recently. My wife was having trouble with the .308, even with Hodgdon youth loads, so I got her a .243. I killed a deer with it and with a solid behind the shoulder hit, it ran about 30-40 yds. That's about the same as the ol .30-06 does. Well, this past saturday, she got to hunt with it and killed a deer. It got the shoulder a little and man did it tear a hole. An 85 grain Sierra GK BTHP and 36 grains of H380 is a deadly combination let me tell you. The exit hole was the size of a silver dollar. The '06 or .308 either one, make any larger a hole. I'm a believer in it now.
    Now that being said, I wouldn't tackle anything much larger than deer with it, but it is a fine whitetail cartridge. Maybe I'll think different if a marginal hit is ever made. We'll see.
     
  3. 45lcshooter

    45lcshooter Member

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    243 is fine for deer. You need to teach new hunters about shot placement. I did an experiment with ballistic gel an a 17hmr, a 17hmr 17gr bullet has enough power to kill a deer at 100yds. So factory ammo will kill a deer, with proper shot placement. For deer season i use 30-30 and 308, anything over that is overkill.

    I known some guys that have special guns made just for whitetail, i ask them why they do that and i get "because it drops them" i asked them if they just shoot brown, they said yep. My thoughts exactly, shot placement is key.
     
  4. bassdogs

    bassdogs Member

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    Yep, the correct answer is what ever you have a fancy to or history yourself. What you don't need is to load the kid up with an elephant gun down loaded with light loads. Many will keep that first gun as a go to but most will also migrate to something else they come to like as they grow and mature. Think its a pipe dream to outfit a new [young] shooter with a gun for all times. All you have to do is read the threads here about a gun for this and a gun for that. If all I'm hunting for is no larger than the biggest white tail, I'm voting for the 243 or the 30-30 with ranges under 100 and out to 200 for the 243. Shot placement is key and a bigger more powerful bullet is not a substitute.

    PS I just picked up a used Henry lever youth 22 to introduce my grandkids to shooting. Started them last year with a BB/pellet rifle. Have had it for a couple of weeks and its a blast to shoot. I'm sure the boys [and eventually the girls] will love it.
     
  5. bassdogs

    bassdogs Member

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    Yep, the correct answer is what ever you have a fancy to or history yourself. What you don't need is to load the kid up with an elephant gun down loaded with light loads. Many will keep that first gun as a go to but most will also migrate to something else they come to like as they grow and mature. Think its a pipe dream to outfit a new [young] shooter with a gun for all times. All you have to do is read the threads here about a gun for this and a gun for that. If all I'm hunting for is no larger than the biggest white tail, I'm voting for the 243 or the 30-30 with ranges under 100 and out to 200 for the 243. Shot placement is key and a bigger more powerful bullet is not a substitute.

    PS I just picked up a used Henry lever youth 22 to introduce my grandkids to shooting. Started them last year with a BB/pellet rifle. Have had it for a couple of weeks and its a blast to shoot. I'm sure the boys [and eventually the girls] will love it.
     
  6. bassdogs

    bassdogs Member

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    Sorry for the double post
     
  7. fpjeepy05

    fpjeepy05 Member

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    There are some states that only allow shotgun or pistol rounds and they don't seem to have any trouble putting down deer. Also .223 isn't legal in this state, nor would I encourage anyone to use one on anything other than varmints.
     
  8. Kachok

    Kachok Member

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    243s do the trick, but are limited in penetration without premium bullets, so being picky about your shots is critical, for this reason alone I think of the 243 as more of an experienced rifleman's cartrage. 30-30s have superb penetration but are lackluster in their external ballistics so getting close to your target is vital, also a skill of crafty veterans. Faster 30 cals tend to be a bit harder kicking and are not the cartrage of choice for new recoil shy shooters, keep it under 15lbs recoil for a new shooter. I think the ideal beginners gun would have to be in the .257-.284cal range capable of 2700fps+ speeds to ensure flat trajectory and ideal shot placement within reasonable ranges. 25-06, 257 Roberts, 6.5x55, 260 Rem, 6.5 Creedmore, 7mm-08 and 7x57 would top my list. If someone is capable of a little more recoil I could make a strong case for the 308 and 270 win too.
    As someone who reloads I prefer the 6.5x55, 120gr bullets at 3000 fps and sissy kicker recoil, think of it as 270 win lite. But if I used factory fodder I would probably prefer the 25-06 or 7mm-08.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
  9. fpjeepy05

    fpjeepy05 Member

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    If long range was important I would agree with 7-08, Or it's dopplegagger 7x57. For shots under 50 yards, I like 357 max, 44 mag, and 45LC +P. Great penetration with still minimal recoil. Also nice because a beginner can shoot 380, 44 special, and 45LC to practice with even less recoil.
     
  10. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    I think you mean .38 and not .380. Just clarification for any beginners reading this.
     
  11. vtbluegrass

    vtbluegrass Member

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    Why not take the kid to the range and shot some appropriate calibers and see what he can handle or likes? Some small kids can take the recoil of larger rifles than you might think and some large adults are recoil pansies. Then go to the store with a budget. Let the kid pick. Maybe he wants a gun that looks just like his hunting mentors'. Maybe something completely different.
     
  12. Fishbed77

    Fishbed77 Member

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    Really?

    Remember we are are talking about east coast whitetails. Not the monster midwest variety or muleys.
     
  13. fpjeepy05

    fpjeepy05 Member

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    The North East can get some decent sized animals. My uncle I hunt with got a buck last season that dressed out at 256#.
     
  14. lefteyedom

    lefteyedom Member

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    The MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO GET A RIFLE THAT FITS THE YOUTH NOW.


    That rifle (IMHO)would be a bolt action, 18- 20" inch barrel topped with a good quality 3X9X40 scope, sling and a Harris bipod. Such a rifle chambered in 260 or 7-08 is an idea rifle for any deer hunt and excellent youth rifle.

    A scout rifle with a traditional over the action mounted scope.

    Other calibers that would work well would be 243, 308, 338 fed, 358 win, 257 Roberts (.257X57), 6.5X55, 7X57.

    Lever action rifles in 30-30, 35 Remington are fine 150-200 yard deer rifles. A modern light weight bolt action carbine in a 308 class cartridge can extend that range to 400 yards. I love the classic lever action, there are simply better weapons available for the task for the same weight and felt recoil .
     
  15. Kachok

    Kachok Member

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    ^ I would think 358 would be a touch excessive for kids, not to mention deer :) Never shot one with anything larger then a 30 cal 358s are crazy big for whitetail heck I think my 30-06 is a massive overkill, last one it took (earlier this week) left a fist sized hole through the deer with 165gr SGK handloads.
     
  16. meanmrmustard

    meanmrmustard Member

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    Which is redundant furthermore, as .223 is a popular cartridge in my North East MO home woods, along with .243 (wssm too), 30-30, and pistol cartridges. Those that some fancy "underpowered". Sounds like compensation to me.

    .243 is going to do just fine.
     
  17. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    And you don't think I've shot east coast whitetails with the .243??? I've seen 100gr pills blow up on a rib bone. Which is why I no longer own a .243.
     
  18. Mr. T

    Mr. T Member

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    I went with the .270 Win with reduced recoil ammunition for my oldest son who's now a Junior in Highschool. It worked out well for him. However my wife and my daughter both shoot AR's and they've dropped deer with both of them. I was all overly concerned that they didn't have enough caliber, but their deer haven't gone further than 50 yards from point of impact. I think a lot of it depends on the person. If you're looking at the larger caliber option I would have to fully endorse the .270 Win option with the reduced recoil ammunition. The recoil was similar to a .243 Win but it still hit like a .270. My son shot his first deer with this set up at 225 yards. Remington claims that the point of impact is the same as the regular ammunition out to the extent of 200 yards. Any way that deer folded like a house of cards! Good luck!
     
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