Benefits Scout Rifles and Scout AR10?

[CmdrSlander]

What is the benefit of the scout rifle setup? Jeff Cooper wouldn't have proposed it if he didn't think it had practical merit.

Also how well would applying the concept to an AR work? I was thinking of getting an AR10 (or similar) with an 18" barrel and mounting the scope forward on the RAS instead of one the upper rail.

 

[taliv]

use the search feature as this topic has been covered many times, but i think the most insightful thoughts on the subject were about the availability of optics at the time cooper wrote that.

if you want speed and accuracy with a bolt gun, a low-power fixed optic in a scout position is only viable until somebody comes along with a 1.8-10x long-eye relief variable optic with mil/mil target turrets. or something amazing like USO's dual-focal. or the elcan 1/4x switch.

cooper's 'scout' would get smoked by an GAP10, or SR25 EMC, or larue OBR and a modern optic. but that's always the way it is with progress. (at least, i hope we keep progressing)

 

[Strykervet]

Doesn't sound like too hot of an idea. I guess if you get a true monolithic upper you can do this if you want. But I have KAC FF rails on a couple of rifles, and I can tell you that as nice and solid as those are, I'd never ever mount sights on them. I think there are also cantilever mounts that might work. But putting it on the actual forearm is a bad idea.

In the army, we'd mount lasers on the rails, FF or not. Nowhere else to put them. They lost zero rather quickly, no good groups.

I also knew a few guys that tried to put their M68's on the rail. That was a colossal fail. They missed every target past 50-100m.

Finally, if you get an EoTech, those have such a big window and they actually work better up close with both eyes open. If you are thinking of a scope mounted foward, well, I can't help you there. Some folks think it is a good idea, and at least one training school teaches it. But if you need to track fast, I still think the EoTech is better. And they make one now with a BDC for a .308 and you can get a magnifier for it too and now you have the best of three worlds!

However, if you get an AR10 and it is a good shooter, you can be seriously hindered by poor optics. For the price and the quality, a TA01B, the .308 ACOG with stadia, is hard to beat. I love mine. Not a scout mount, but then again, the only scouts I ever knew used ACOG's and M68's.

 

[redbullitt]

I would call my deer rifle a scout rifle... ruger did lol. I kept the irons on it, no optic since i am not a huge fan of the scope for it. Just makes it less bulky and me more likely to use something else. A small dot is another matter entirely.

I also happen to shoot a GAP built AR10. They are two completely different animals. The ruger is pretty slim and trim, especially with irons or dot. Easy to carry and not bulky. The ar10 is quite a bit heavier, even without optics.

I prefer the bolt myself, so that does factor in here. You may be a different story though. I'd not mount on the front ar10 rail either... nothing is wrong with a traditionally mounted low power optic. How about and acog?

 

[henschman]

Well first off, it would be very difficult to get any of the current .308 ARs (or any other semi auto .308 for that matter) to come in under the weight Cooper specified for the Scout concept, which was about 6 1/2 lbs. .308 ARs start at about 8.5 lbs. without optics, for the lightest ones, and go on up from there. Even the FN SCAR 17 (which is about as light as .308 semis come) weighs in at 8 lbs even for the 16" carbine version. Cooper intended the Scout to be an extremely light and portable rifle. .308 AR's really don't fit the concept well. Hell, it is hard enough to get a 5.56 AR to meet that weight figure with optics and all.

The forward-mounted scope has a lot more advantages for a top-fed bolt gun than it does on a mag-fed semi auto: it allows for easy loading, whether from stripper clips or with single rounds; and it is easier to cycle the bolt. On a .308 AR, it doesn't offer anything over something like a 1-4x optic, a red dot with a magnifier, or something else that can be used both up close and at distance like an ACOG.

And as others mentioned, you would probably have issues keeping a consistent zero with the optic mounted on the handguard.

 

[CMC]

To Mount a Scout scope you may need a cantilever mount on the flattop.
The link shows one
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/American-Defense-RECON-X-Extended-Scope-1-in-rings-p/ad recon x 1.htm

I like my Browning 308 lever action Scout because it is handy ,good balance and lightweight.

 

[sixgunner455]

One of the things that the forward mounted Scout scope does for the original concept rifle was to get the scope off the receiver, so the thing could be reloaded more easily and faster, especially if it was cut for strippers. The lower powered, both-eyes-open optics make sense in some ways as well.

But I don't think that using a forward mounted optic on a flat-topped AR is a really good idea, anyway, and it doesn't give the main benefit to that weapon system that it would to a bolt rifle, since the scope on the receiver isn't in the way of anything functional.