Best balance scale available?
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Reloadron
Contributing Member
You don't get one you build one.
I am sure Mr. Morris would provide a schematic and the part numbers he used if someone ask. Ron
Targa
Member
I am not about to say it’s the best, I am confident it’s not, but my Lee scale has been great.
Old Stumpy
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I really like my Lyman 500 scale.
All metal except the levelling foot, and just about unchanged since the one that I owned back in the 70s.
Knife edges and agate bearings.
Can't go wrong with Redding if you want the best though.
I have a Big Boss 2 press and a competition powder measure.
First Class.
Interestingly though, I have an old 1960s Lyman 55 powder measure that seems just as accurate as the Redding. Both are iron body construction. Steel drum for the Redding. Brass for the Lyman.
All metal except the levelling foot, and just about unchanged since the one that I owned back in the 70s.
Knife edges and agate bearings.
Can't go wrong with Redding if you want the best though.
I have a Big Boss 2 press and a competition powder measure.
First Class.
Interestingly though, I have an old 1960s Lyman 55 powder measure that seems just as accurate as the Redding. Both are iron body construction. Steel drum for the Redding. Brass for the Lyman.
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jmorris
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You don't get one you build one.
Ron
Photo electric switch.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-OMRON-E3S-GS30E4-Diffuse-Groove-Shaped-Photoelectric-Switch-Sensor/153262672272?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
The exact motor I used on my last one isn’t there anymore but this one is close.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Long-Shaft...651518?hash=item1ca4a96e3e:g:-y0AAOSwHcpap4g3
Latching switch.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5Pcs-PBS-1...hash=item5b6daa4153:m:mAUmdxGZbdV0POjp7qocdCA
12v DPDT relay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-12V-DC-Coil-Power-Relay-LY2NJ-DPDT-8-Pin-HH62P-JQX-13F-With-Socket-Base/172568472855?hash=item282de1ed17&var&_trkparms=ispr=1&enc=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&checksum=172568472855d4751e4e139f4dd4b2f1e5968d526a29
2 amp 12 volt transformer.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1A-2A-AC-D...hash=item5b5df2d076:m:mOT5gDk-T3xNz0dds5AR7ow
The last one I built used an RCBS trickler mounted to a bent piece of sheet metal that the motor and relay were mounted on the back and switch on the front.
The wiring is the 2nd video in #21. If you have a scale, trickler and stuff to mount/assemble the parts together you’ll have less than $25 invested and have more repeatability than things costing 10 times that amount.
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JFrank
Member
Well that poses a small problem. Ha !
I currently use a lee scoop and a Dandy Trickler in conjunction with my Scott parker tuned beam scale.
It’s extremely accurate just not that fast
I currently use a lee scoop and a Dandy Trickler in conjunction with my Scott parker tuned beam scale.
It’s extremely accurate just not that fast
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Reloadron
Contributing Member
Thanks for sharing it again in case anyone wants to build their own trickler. Can be adapted to about any beam scale used for powder.
Thanks
Ron
Thanks
Ron
JFrank
Member
The link to the 12v DPDT relay seems problematic.
JFrank
Member
Indeed
My (limited) experience with a variety of scales is as follows:
The platform scale we used to weigh Semi's with wouldn't be the best to check the weight of a human.
'Bathroom' scales won't really work too good below 10 #'s
The old 'Triple beam' scale we had in high school was good to about a half a gram or so.
Every scale has a purpose. In general, I tend to believe that a scale with lesser capacity could be more sensitive to smaller amounts of weight than a larger capacity scale would be.
The most sensitive scale I own isn't a beam scale, nor is it capable of weighing more than 100 gram.
I've ordered some check weights to verify consistency, so, time will tell.
But, as always,,,, YMMV,,,,
The platform scale we used to weigh Semi's with wouldn't be the best to check the weight of a human.
'Bathroom' scales won't really work too good below 10 #'s
The old 'Triple beam' scale we had in high school was good to about a half a gram or so.
Every scale has a purpose. In general, I tend to believe that a scale with lesser capacity could be more sensitive to smaller amounts of weight than a larger capacity scale would be.
The most sensitive scale I own isn't a beam scale, nor is it capable of weighing more than 100 gram.
I've ordered some check weights to verify consistency, so, time will tell.
But, as always,,,, YMMV,,,,
Old Stumpy
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How do you verify the accuracy of the check weights ???
Perhaps they will oxidize over time and weigh less then.
LiveLife
Member
To me for reloading, accuracy of .1 gr resolution of beam scales was good enough to load consistent rounds, even for record setting match shooting and 1000 yard Palma matches for decades.
My Ohaus ASTM Class 6 check weights have following tolerances (1 mg = .015 gr) - http://www.uniquetek.com/store/696296/uploaded/calibration_weight_tolerances.pdf
- 100 mg - 1 mg (.0154 gr)
- 50 mg - 0.5 mg (.0077 gr)
- 20 mg - 0.5 mg (.0077 gr)
- 10 mg - 0.5 mg (.0077 gr)
- 5 mg - 0.2 mg (.0030 gr)
- 2 mg - 0.2 mg (.0030 gr)
- 1 mg - 0.1 mg (.0015 gr)
Unlike most "reloaders" aluminum check weights that go down to .5 gr, hopefully my Ohaus stainless steel check weights that go down to 1 mg (.015 gr) will oxidize slower.Perhaps they will oxidize over time and weigh less then.
JFrank
Member
Gents
Store bought check weights aren’t necessarily exact.You can create your own using a bullet or a coated business card or both just write the number on it and save etc. it really doesn’t matter as long as your scale repeats, trust me on this one fellas
Store bought check weights aren’t necessarily exact.You can create your own using a bullet or a coated business card or both just write the number on it and save etc. it really doesn’t matter as long as your scale repeats, trust me on this one fellas
jmorris
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It’s working for me, try this one.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-DC-Coi...-HH62P-JQX-13F-With-Socket-Base-/401365890710
or just go search 12V DC Coil Power Relay LY2NJ DPDT 8 Pin HH62P JQX-13F With Socket Base.
LiveLife
Member
I cannot endorse use of bullets as check weights as most jacketed bullets can vary around 1.0 gr. Even more consistent match grade bullets (Hornady HAP, Montana Gold, Zero, etc.) can vary by 1.0 gr. Even "ELEY match grade" RMR in-house jacketed bullets can vary by 0.5 gr.
For many popular powders, 0.5 gr is the full range load data from start to max charges. And simply relying on repeatability of scale is like relying on a clock that is 5 minutes off.
For me, scale accurately reading heavy objects like bullets and calibration weights is less significant than scale accurately reading lighter objects like powder charges around 4 - 6 gr and this can be verified using check weights in the same weight range.
Similarly, I recommend the use of known standards/gages for calipers with diameter same as bullets being used. Since measuring cylindrical objects could have different "feel" depending on the amount of pressure applied to caliper jaws, I prefer to use pin gages to check my calipers with my eyes closed so I can get more consistent feel/readings (as bullets and finished rounds are cylindrical) and improper use of calipers and worn calipers will result in inconsistent taper crimp measurements - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/measuring-crimp.860279/#post-11320703
You also want to use the same size pin gage as the items you are measuring as different parts of the caliper gears can wear at different spots. Since I mainly reload 9mm/40S&W/45ACP, I have .355"/.400"/.451" pin gages.
jmorris
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Some “Windows” are even smaller than that, like .2 gn from start to max.
Lucky for us they are the exception vs the norm.
That said, manufacturers don’t weigh the charges when they make 25 auto rounds, they are all volume and new bushings are machined to what they want and swapped out if they get a different “blend” and need to alter the volume. For them it’s all about repeatability without much regard to charge but the end result. Testing is part of the process as well and QC checks as component lots change.
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JFrank
Member
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LiveLife
Member
I agree.
I am sorry but I would not consider anything like paper fiber that could absorb ambient moisture as "check weights".
I wonder if there is a single pharmacy that uses business card as their check weights? And as to using heavy 89.6 gr bullet as check weight, it won't help me verify accuracy and repeatability of my scales when I am loading max powder charges of 4 - 6 grains. (When we discussed accuracy of calipers, many machinist type members pointed out the importance of verifying accuracy at the actual measurement range being used)
I still recommend aluminum check weights that can better duplicate the powder charges used and preferably stainless steel ASTM Class 6 check weights like Ohaus set from Zoro to verify my scales.
If you could have a pharmacist friend verify different lengths of cut paper clip or aluminum/stainless steel wire at the weight range being used, I would be more comfortable as pharmacy scales are calibrated and verified at much higher resolution than reloading scales.
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JFrank
Member
Excellent and thank you very much
J
JFrank
Member
I agree.
I am sorry but I would not consider anything like paper fiber that could absorb ambient moisture as "check weights".
And as to using heavy 89.6 gr bullet as check weight, it won't help me verify accuracy and repeatability of my scales when I am loading max powder charge of 4 - 6 grains. (When we discussed accuracy of calipers, many machinist type members pointed out the importance of verifying accuracy at the measurement range)
I still recommend aluminum check weights that can better duplicate the powder charges used and preferably stainless steel ASTM Class 6 check weights like Ohaus set from Zoro to verify my scales.[/QUOTE
Very Good ,
We I suppose will agree to the quest for accuracy in our scales. Results and methods do vary I see.
And then there are those who throw charges + or - .1
Shoot Small y’all
J
LiveLife
Member
Since you are new to the forum, let me remind you that we have myth busted the notion of scale accuracy below .1 gr resolution of most beam scales with digital scales using higher .02 gr (and even .015 gr) resolution verified by check weights that went down to 1 mg (0.015 gr) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...tal-scale-accuracy.759750/page-4#post-9591790
.1 gr resolution beam scales have been successfully used to load consistent rounds over the decades, win and set match records, even for 1000 yard Palma matches. And I believe .1 gr resolution is good enough for reloading and we probably don't need .02 gr resolution.
But for us to verify that our scales are accurate to .1 gr, we need standards/check weights to do that.
But not with paper business card.
LiveLife
Member
That's swing of .2-.3 gr and for many powders with start/max range of .5 gr, you could be over max charge/pressure. If my powder measure is throwing with that much swing, I would factor in the upper swing drop weight to conduct my load development/powder work up. (Of course, this is with the understanding that the scale being used was verified with check weights in the powder charge range)
I use 2 Ohaus 10-10 and RCBS 5-0-5 with .1 gr resolution for my reloading. (Lee Safety scale member rcmodel signed remains in the factory box along with other reloading equipment he sent before he died)
While Ohaus 10-10 and Lee Safety scale will DETECT one piece of 1/4"x1/4" of 20 lb copy paper (approximate weight around .05 gr) along with my .02 gr resolution Gemini-20 digital scale, RCBS 5-0-5 scale will DETECT two pieces of 1/4"x1/4" paper around .1 gr (And WAOAW digital scale won't detect until two pieces of 1/4"x1/4" paper and FA DS-750 digital scale won't detect until three pieces of 1/4"x1/4" paper)
All the beam scales and digital scales will verify check weights exactly down to around .3 gr/20 mg (Lyman check weight set will only go down to .5 gr) but will start showing their resolution sensitivity below that with Gemini-20 and Ohaus 10-10 showing the most consistent readings.
I conducted 10 drop test in this thread using some more difficult to meter powders like Unique and got following powder charge variances with .02 gr resolution scale verified down to 2 mg/.03 gr Ohaus ASTM Class 6 check weights (Gemini-20 won't detect 1 mg/.015 gr check weight) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/c-h-502-micrometer-powder-measure-10-drops.834894/
- W296/H110 - 0.16 gr - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/powder-measure-reccomendations.863943/#post-11399069
- Unique - .24 gr
- Red Dot - .22 gr
- IMR Target - .22 gr
- BE-86 - .14 gr
- Promo - .12 gr (Yes, the reblended powder with mostly large round flakes now meter much better)
- Vectan Ba 9.5 - .12 gr (Similar grain structure as N320 but cut shorter)
- W231/HP-38 - .12 gr
- Lovex D032-03/Clean Shot - .10 gr (Comparable powder to AA #2, fine ball powder)
- Sport Pistol - .08 gr (With more consistent granule size smaller than W231 like N320 diameter but cut thinner, best metering powder along with Bullseye)
- Bullseye - .08 gr
Be safe.
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JFrank
Member
Since you are new to the forum, let me remind you that we have myth busted the notion of scale accuracy below .1 gr resolution of most beam scales with digital scales using higher .02 gr (and even .015 gr) resolution verified by check weights that went down to 1 mg (0.015 gr) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...tal-scale-accuracy.759750/page-4#post-9591790
.1 gr resolution beam scales have been successfully used to load consistent rounds over the decades, win and set match records, even for 1000 yard Palma matches. And I believe .1 gr resolution is good enough for reloading and we probably don't need .02 gr resolution.
But for us to verify that our scales are accurate to .1 gr, we need standards/check weights to do that.
But not with paper business card.
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