rbernie
Contributing Member
If I can't have an AR for HD/SD, I'm not using a rifle at all - a Benelli M2 with Federal FliteControl ammo is my backup.
That's really interesting and I don't doubt you but after seeing a 223/556 break the 'ear' off a AR500 3/8inch plate at 50 yards or so..I find it hard to believe it wouldn't go thru some wall board and insulation. Yup, a 9mm would too but.....Actually, the most traditional AR round has much less penetration in almost all loadings than traditional handgun loads. Some of the lighter weight, lightly constructed loadings (the inexpensive .223 American Eagle 50 gr HP is just one that comes to mind) don't penetrate deeply enough to meet suggested SD guidelines...
John
No, don't give up hope, but do appreciate the challenges we will likely face. Now is not the time for complacency.Some of you talk as if you have given up hope.
The first step in their victory.
They say “Thank you”, I’m sure.
Obviously, they have replaced the gas tube with a connecting rod to the pump slide.
In the interest of science, do they link the connecting rod solid to the carrier or do they rely on the buffer spring to return the bolt to battery?
Does the upper fit a standard AR lower?
Or get a nice Scout rifle in .308 and go get your ARs back, and more, working teams . Worked for the Viet Cong, and they won! Also worked in 1776.Gosh, the Dems don't want to BAN ARs... they just want us to register them, pay an NFA tax-stamp on each one we own, and then another $200 tax stamp for each "high capacity" AR magazine we already own... Haven't y'all read the DNC platform? We'll be just fine going forward, no need to fret...
But, uh, just in case, my resolution for 2021 is to spend a lot more time with my lever-action rifles and pump-action shotguns...
I'm thinking a Marlin 1894 carbine in .38/.357 and a Marlin 336 in .30-30 are just the ticket.
If you have purchased a firearm requiring an FBI background check you have probably made the hit parade. I would imagine there are many of us on many lists. I guess we’ll see.How do the feds do that..on guns already owned, since nobody knows who has what now? 17million or so "ARs" owned and like 45-50 million magazines?
If autoloaders are banned, and manually operated firearms are not, I'd expect practical/tactical designed pump action PCCs to be made. Essentially, updated versions of the Timber Wolf Carbine from decades ago.
Maybe an 8-shot revolver carbine (with cylinder gap blast shields) would make sense too. Not an 8-shooter in the vid below, but it sure can shoot fast compared to a lever or pump gun. I imagine you could use speed loaders.
C'mon S&W, you can do it.
Manually operated HD carbine? I'd grab an old Remington 7615. Pump action 5.56, runs on AR mags, takes 870 stocks/accessories.
Not ideal, but it checks alot of boxes. It was pretty much tailor made for such situations.
I guess no one remembers there, the Timber Wolf by IMI available in .357 and .44 Magnum.
View attachment 969156
Too bad they don't make them anymore.
I've always thought an AR in 5.56 would be a bit much inside a dwelling.
35W
I had wanted a 7615 back in the day. I always like the idea for some reason
The AR seems to be the go-to rifle right now if one chooses a rifle for self defense, such as in a home defense situation.
With the shift to the left we have taken with the loss of the House, Senate, and Presidency, it would seem possible and likely probable that we will see gun restrictions passed. These are likely to target semiautomatic rifles like the AR, Mini-14, AK, and many others.
Time will tell I suppose but I think you're seriously misreading the state of things. Dems still hold the House but they significantly lost ground (I think a net loss of 12 seats IIRC). The Senate went from a very slim Repub majority to a dead tie (with the tiebreaker going Dem). And the Dem president is only there because of a historically weak incumbent, and by any objective measure he's center-right. Yeah, he's perhaps more anti-gun that the previous POTUS although we lost more ground in the last four years than in the previous eight. Still there are five-right wing extremists on SCOTUS so sweeping new gun bans seem unlikely. Again, we can return to this in a few years and see who was right!
I didn't quote the second part as I figure you accidentally mistyped as semi-auto rifles are already widely available. So I'm working on the assumption that you meant "unavailable".
So we're clear I'm a gun nut! This is a gun forum so you'd expect that, right? So now that we're clear I have to say that probably a pretty small minority of homeowners/occupants rely on an AR for HD to begin with. The AR is arguable the most popular rifle in America, at least going by the oft-repeated claims in the gun rags and online forums. It's hard to say if that's true at all. My own experiences and gut feeling is that a simple majority of homes do not have a dedicated HD weapon set up at all. Of those who do have firearms set up expressly for that reason, pistols are probably the most common choice. I could be wrong but from the large commercial YouTube channels, online gun mags and discussions with my gun community friends IRL leads me to that conclusion. One reason for this is the persistent belief that a 5.56 bullet will overpenetrate more than a handgun; this myth is persistent and no amount of "box of truth" videos seems to change this belief. Plus handguns are smaller, cheaper and much more common than ARs.
But if somehow ARs and other semi-auto rifles were banned, would there be other good options? Yes and no! To some extent the rifle is only better option because of the unique virtues of the AR platform. As great as a rifle can be for HD it does pose some disadvantages. It's six times longer and four times heavier than a sidearm and requires both hands to use. The sound level is deafening compared to a sidearm, too. ARs are generally a bit shorter and lighter than some of the other long guns in the same general class (eg CZ Bren, FN SCAR, AK-47, etc). The modularity of the AR, the versatility and the light weight compared to other rifles coupled with the 30 round capacity are probably the main reasons that rifles are even as popular as they are for HD. Substitute another light rifle with a 10 round capacity and you saw one leg off the stool, and now it's pretty wobbly.
If I couldn't use a semi-auto rifle for HD I probably wouldn't go with a lever or bolt gun, I'd go with a shotgun. In fact, I already do keep my Mossberg 500 set up as the backup. My situation isn't universal but for me a shotgun would probably be better than a lever or pump-action rifle. Again, this is an issue specific to me but I'm not particularly good with a lever gun due to not really using them much growing up. If semi-autos were banned I suppose I might pick up a .44 Mag lever and start training with it, and if so then it would move up the list a bit. But if whatever ban was specific to magazine fed rifles and not to shotguns, I'd probably switch to a Beretta 1301 for HD with a sidearm to back it up.
As one of the previous posters mentioned, lever guns can be a good option but they can get tied up if they're not operated properly. This applies to a pump gun as well (although in that case a short-shuck is easier to remedy). If some hypothetical band were to become a reality I'd probably pick up a .44 Mag lever and work on skills. Probably the firearms industry would pivot to skirting restrictions much as they do now, and I could see pump action rifles being developed which could be good alternatives. Mechanically a pump would require a little less travel in the action to cycle a pistol cartridge vs a 3" shot shell although pump rifles would be about the same. I can't recall the manufacturer but I once saw a pump action AR, so the thinking is already out there.
To me a pump action rifle in .44 Mag would be pretty interesting for HD and for camping/hiking. Since I don't have a crystal ball and have no idea what "features" may be banned it's impossible to design a firearm around them right now.