Best Quality AR Under $2000

[Boba Fett]

+1 for Rock River Arms.

 

[hags]

There are no people here or anywhere that can tell you truthfully that carbine courses, normal use, LEO use, or even military combat use will damage, wear out, destroy, or even show a difference in any commercially available AR aside from Vulcan. Anyone who claims otherwise is talking out of their backside. There are people who say that brand A, or brand B do not make it through carbine courses simply because they know that most people here have never been to one, and doesnt know that the person making the comment has never been to one themselves.

My goodness..............

Can I ask if you've ever been to a carbine course? I've put 1000 rounds + through some of my ARs in an afternoon (long). I've seen bolts crack, carrier keys come loose, receiver extension/buffer tubes come loose etc....

The fact is that some parts are better than others, and some ARs are put together better than others. It's that simple, you just can't argue with that logic.

You see, being in law enforcement I get more exposure to these things in person than the typical JoShmo that comments and claims about things that they dont understand.
I also work with special team members who take these courses every year as required training, and fire their AR type rifles far more than any typical civilian ever will.
Why is it that on internet forums among colt fans theres always claims about non colt/LMT/etc brands failing when in reality it has rarely ever happened period?
Why is it that I know of more failed milspec ARs and colts than any other brand, some of these units used colts at one time, then bought other brands since for reliability reasons.
In fact I know one within a few miles of my house that had colts for years, then bought Bushmasters to replace them, they have had better luck with the Bushys.

I have family and friends that are LEOs. I sell to alot of LEOs and active military. I can tell you from first hand experience, the majority of LEOs are not "shooters" or even gun fans. In fact some, if not most have less exposure to these things than your average gun nut.
My radar goes off when I hear a LEO shooting his mouth off about his vast and superior knowledge of firearms, most guys that can shoot, especially Federal agents, and man can those guys shoot, don't.
If the "special team members" you know are taking these courses once a year they are way behind some of the people I know and sell to when it comes to training.
I don't know many PDs that could afford to spend what it would take to equip all of their LEOs with Colts. There are some but the majority buy Bushmaster or other brands based on cost. It's based on cost and what is in the budget for such things, not necessarily performance.

I think your blanket statements regarding ARs, AR manufacturers, mil-specs and internet forums shows a lack of experience and/or working knowledge with regard to these subjects.
I don't see many facts in your posts, I don't see alot of helpful info with regard to your vast experience(s).

These kind of statements serve no purpose and detract from what most are here for.

Ive fired my ARs in the last year alone more than most here have fired theres in many years, but there are many more who have thousands more rds than myself through there non colt ARs.
I know too many long time AR owners and have far too much experience with these rifles to fall for the fictional claims by many who post here.

You can either buy it right, Colt, LMT, DD, Noveske, etc or build it right.

Just my $.02 worth.

 

[SHvar]

"The fact is that some parts are better than others, and some ARs are put together better than others. It's that simple, you just can't argue with that logic."
Yes, one brand, vulcan, junk. The problem is you did not use logic in your responce, or facts.

"I can tell you from first hand experience, the majority of LEOs are not "shooters" or even gun fans. In fact some, if not most have less exposure to these things than your average gun nut."

You do not know any or very few LEOs then, among LEOs there are non gun owners, some that shoot on occasion, and among LEOs there are tons of gun nuts, in fact I find more so than among anywhere else in society lots of gun nuts. Its a heavy topic of discussion at work, and some have their own private ranges which are alot nicer than most ranges available to the public.

"My radar goes off when I hear a LEO shooting his mouth off about his vast and superior knowledge of firearms"

Again, you show how few LEOs you actually know then.

"If the "special team members" you know are taking these courses once a year they are way behind some of the people I know and sell to when it comes to training"

By the way, these guys spend 6 months or more every year training across the US, I cant tell you or anyone else here about some of the training these guys do or where they do it. These unit have their own budgets, their own armories, and shoot every time they train.

"I don't know many PDs that could afford to spend what it would take to equip all of their LEOs with Colts. There are some but the majority buy Bushmaster or other brands based on cost. It's based on cost and what is in the budget for such things, not necessarily performance.

This shows how little you know about LEO agencies, and what they spend, also what these rifle cost them.
I can walk into an LEO supply store and buy a S&W M&P15 for under $900 complete, my agency can purchase a full auto version for over $100 less, right in the catalog. I can tell you that most agencies had colts because they get them cheap, again your lack of knowledge on this subject shows, these agencies can buy a colt for the same price as any other brand (between $600-$900 depends on where they purchase from).


"I think your blanket statements regarding ARs, AR manufacturers, mil-specs and internet forums shows a lack of experience and/or working knowledge with regard to these subjects."

You just showed your total lack of knowledge on these subjects with your responce, your facts are far from the truth, and you shoot your mouth off alot about LEOs when you know nothing about them.

 

[hags]

"The fact is that some parts are better than others, and some ARs are put together better than others. It's that simple, you just can't argue with that logic."
Yes, one brand, vulcan, junk. The problem is you did not use logic in your responce, or facts.

"I can tell you from first hand experience, the majority of LEOs are not "shooters" or even gun fans. In fact some, if not most have less exposure to these things than your average gun nut."

You do not know any or very few LEOs then, among LEOs there are non gun owners, some that shoot on occasion, and among LEOs there are tons of gun nuts, in fact I find more so than among anywhere else in society lots of gun nuts. Its a heavy topic of discussion at work, and some have their own private ranges which are alot nicer than most ranges available to the public.

"My radar goes off when I hear a LEO shooting his mouth off about his vast and superior knowledge of firearms"

Again, you show how few LEOs you actually know then.

"If the "special team members" you know are taking these courses once a year they are way behind some of the people I know and sell to when it comes to training"

By the way, these guys spend 6 months or more every year training across the US, I cant tell you or anyone else here about some of the training these guys do or where they do it. These unit have their own budgets, their own armories, and shoot every time they train.

"I don't know many PDs that could afford to spend what it would take to equip all of their LEOs with Colts. There are some but the majority buy Bushmaster or other brands based on cost. It's based on cost and what is in the budget for such things, not necessarily performance.

This shows how little you know about LEO agencies, and what they spend, also what these rifle cost them.
I can walk into an LEO supply store and buy a S&W M&P15 for under $900 complete, my agency can purchase a full auto version for over $100 less, right in the catalog. I can tell you that most agencies had colts because they get them cheap, again your lack of knowledge on this subject shows, these agencies can buy a colt for the same price as any other brand (between $600-$900 depends on where they purchase from).


"I think your blanket statements regarding ARs, AR manufacturers, mil-specs and internet forums shows a lack of experience and/or working knowledge with regard to these subjects."

You just showed your total lack of knowledge on these subjects with your responce, your facts are far from the truth, and you shoot your mouth off alot about LEOs when you know nothing about them.

Well, what can I say to this. You are obviously light years ahead of me when it comes to just about everything.

I can tell you this, most PDs have some sort of educational requirement. Most LEOs I know would be able to spell the word "response" correctly. I mean, you do have to fill out reports, correct????

Oh yeah, I'd stand by my initial response to your posts all day long.

 

[hags]

I don't wanna turn this into a pissing contest. I'll take you at your word, you are omnipotent.

However, the fact is, some parts are better than others and some guns are built better than others.

Buy it the right way or build it the right way.

 

[hags]

This shows how little you know about LEO agencies, and what they spend, also what these rifle cost them.
I can walk into an LEO supply store and buy a S&W M&P15 for under $900 complete, my agency can purchase a full auto version for over $100 less, right in the catalog. I can tell you that most agencies had colts because they get them cheap, again your lack of knowledge on this subject shows, these agencies can buy a colt for the same price as any other brand (between $600-$900 depends on where they purchase from).

Yes, you get an LEO discount. It is not as great as my dealer discount.

Departments get a quantity discount and the LEO discount as well as any incentives from manufacturers.

So, all things being equal, and they are with the LEO and PD/quantity discounts included, the Colt/LMT/Noveske types will still be more expensive.

You have to buy the firearm(s) with your "badge" to receive your LEO discount. If you're buying a .22LR target rifle or .204 varmint rifle you won't get your LEO disount, unless it's done at the discretion of the dealer.

Did I miss anything?

 

[Al Thompson]

By the way, these guys spend 6 months or more every year training

I find that hard to believe. Name some names.. If it's a public agency that shouldn't be an issue.

Edited to add: I just researched SHvar's posts. Hags has it right IMHO.

 

[Mr. T]

Best AR under $2000

I would have to recommend Bushmaster. They build one fine weapon. No rattles or clunky noise from them and they are accurate. Clover leafs at 100 yards, consistently. Good quality built gun for the money.

 

[eric.cartman]

I have a $700 RRA AR15. NEVER oiled or cleaned. NEVER jammed in 10 months and thousands of rounds I've put through it.

 

[Mr. T]

RRA

Hey Eric,

I don't doubt your word on that last post, but that's how stuff breaks on these things...when you let the crud and crap build up on the parts. Furthermore it's a lot harder to clean up that weapon after that stuffs been on there for awhile.

Mr. T
"Respect my Authoriteeee"

 

[Evergreen]

I am the OP and I know my last post got lost in the hail of confrontation between a couple of members on the thread. Hey, I have to say it was pretty exciting to read your guys' posts, no hard feelings..

Anyhow, back to the subject.. I did just purchase an LMT (Lewis Machine & Tool) MRP CQB 16 from a dealer for $1670 shipped and transferred to my hands.

I am really looking forward to shooting this and plan on maybe upgrading to the stainless steel barrel in the future. I will probably buy some very heavy grain bullets for Self Defense since its a 1:7 twist barrel, which should be close ballistic-wise to a lighter load 6.8spc bullet.

Well, I hope I made a good decision in my purchase. I see a lot of people selling this same gun for $1800+, that is, if your lucky enough to find it. I feel a bit guilty, like I should have paid less money and got a Colt 6920/40 or S&W M&P 15, but I just went all out for $300 or $400 more. Well, this gun should last me a couple life times I hope.

If anyone has any comments about the gun I bought, I would be glad to hear.

 

[FlyinBryan]

ya, i caught it e.g.

congrats on your new rifle.

as far as it lasting a couple of lifetimes, that just depends on how much you shoot it and how accurate you need it to be.

it will last a long long time. ive heard it said that the faster twist rate will shoot out before a slower one will, but i think your 15k-20k rounds away from really having to concern yourself with that.

i honestly believe that just about any ar would have made you happy, but you got the one you wanted, and thats really what its all about!!!!!

you will be happy with it im sure.

i have no experience with lmt rifles, but ive read that you should keep an eye on the fsb pins as ive read that they are not the taper type pins that most rifles have. ive read that they have a comparatively high rate of becoming problematic. (i read it, but ive never heard of it actually happening) i think it was in bartholemew roberts "34 ways ar makers cut corners" article on this website somewhere.

regardless, i think you will be very happy.

personally i think those pins have about as much a chance backing out as my rifles have of rusting under the front sight base, lol.

congrats, and now you have no excuse not to post an entry here!!!!!!
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=460043

 

[SHvar]

"spell the word "response" correctly. I mean, you do have to fill out reports, correct????"

Yes, and I have a permanently damaged finger that gets in the way when typing sometimes. I find that it seems to have a mind of its own and if I feel like closely spell checking (I dont have the time to respond all day long here) I find alot of errors from extra letters etc from that finger.

Next, about my career, and my department, thats not a subject to be discussed here, thats nobody else business, for my safety, and that of my family. But, yes paperwork is a big part of the job, and most of it is hand written.

"Oh yeah, I'd stand by my initial response to your posts all day long"

Of course, you work for a gunshop nothing more needed to say.

By the way the LEO supply store I refer to does not sell to the public, you need your ID (not always a badge) to purchase anything. They also have me on file to make purchases easier for many years now. The prices I referred to are straight from their catelog, around half of the price colts sold for in gunshops recently, this store never raised their prices. Agency purchases are made either with supervisors signed permission (such as high cap mags during the 94-04 ban, I could have bought 15rders for my personal glock with permission of my supervisor for $15 each then, $89 at a gunshop), or by agencies. The individual LEO can buy with work ID for prices far below what gunshops charge.

 

[hags]

"spell the word "response" correctly. I mean, you do have to fill out reports, correct????"

Yes, and I have a permanently damaged finger that gets in the way when typing sometimes. I find that it seems to have a mind of its own and if I feel like closely spell checking (I dont have the time to respond all day long here) I find alot of errors from extra letters etc from that finger.

Next, about my career, and my department, thats not a subject to be discussed here, thats nobody else business, for my safety, and that of my family. But, yes paperwork is a big part of the job, and most of it is hand written.

"Oh yeah, I'd stand by my initial response to your posts all day long"

Of course, you work for a gunshop nothing more needed to say.

By the way the LEO supply store I refer to does not sell to the public, you need your ID (not always a badge) to purchase anything. They also have me on file to make purchases easier for many years now. The prices I referred to are straight from their catelog, around half of the price colts sold for in gunshops recently, this store never raised their prices. Agency purchases are made either with supervisors signed permission (such as high cap mags during the 94-04 ban, I could have bought 15rders for my personal glock with permission of my supervisor for $15 each then, $89 at a gunshop), or by agencies. The individual LEO can buy with work ID for prices far below what gunshops charge.

What does me owning a gunstore have to do with anything? I use and shoot what I sell and vice versa. I shoot alot, I have customers that shoot alot more and I get to "play" with alot of different makes and models of what we're talking about here. That allows me to sort through all kinds of firearms. So please enlighten me on what your comment means.

Yes, you need ID, sometimes department authorization on dept. letterhead. The word badge was in quotes to signify "as an LEO", don't think to many buy Browning Citoris on their "badge" if you follow my meaning.
Of course you were paying less, they weren't restricted to LEOs.
Right, you pay slightly more than what I pay with my FFL. I know how that works.

Based on other threads I see you post in I'd say you have a grudge against Colt. It seems you hold them in disdain because they're the gold standard.

We can break in down into simpler terms. Straight ahead comparisons such as the mil-spec B-11595E 1:7 twist barrels versus the 4140 barrels that other companies use.
Certainly you'd agree that the barrel material used in say a Colt or LMT is a step up compared to those that use 4140, no?
My point is, if you have a budget of $2K, more than enough to buy a top of the line, Tier 1 AR, you should get the most for your money, no?
Telling people there is no difference is doing them a disservice and makes it sound like your the one that works at a gunshop.

 

[FlyinBryan]

Certainly you'd agree that the barrel material used in say a Colt or LMT is a step up compared to those that use 4140, no?

what big name companies use 4140?

 

[hags]

Stag, RRA, S&W, Olympic, probably a few more.

Oooooops, I forgot DPMS.

 

[gga357]

POF.

 

[messerist]

I own a S&W in 5.56 and have a RRA in .308 on order. The S&W is a great rifle and I have been very satisfied with the it. The RRA will not be done until November. I can't wait! I ordered it because a friend of mine has one and is very happy with it and highly recommends it.

 

[Robert]

By the way, these guys spend 6 months or more every year training across the US, I cant tell you or anyone else here about some of the training these guys do or where they do it. These unit have their own budgets, their own armories, and shoot every time they train.

Man, you guys smell that? Since when does one need a security clearance to discuss where a public police force trains? As a former State LEO, meaning we had State funding not local, any training other than the yearly requal was totally up to us. Or at best our Sgt would organize the training. Other than a few major cities in the US I can not think of any police force that can spare an entire unit for 6 months + for training each and every year. Do not try to claim I know nothing about a LE force as I served on one and Hags is correct. The majority of people I knew were in no way shape or form gun people. They knew their side arm and our shotgun well enough that I would trust them to back me up. But firearms to them were just the ones they carried for the job.

 

[Art Eatman]

Too much personal stuff. Plumb embarrassing to THR...