Best Riot Rifle

[ThomasT]

If you can justify shooting someone with a beanbag you can justify using real ammo. Beanbags are for cops.

Besides if he is close enough you might kill him anyway. If you don't kill him but maybe rupture his liver or break a rib that punctures a lung and he lives he will sue your A$$ off. You may think you can get away but i beleive they caught the guys that hit Reginald Denny in the head with a brick from news films.

I guess if you do shoot make sure there are no news helecopters around filming you going Rambo.

 

[Mauserguy]

Yes, they caught the guy who beat Denny. His name was Football. He was a lovely, kind-hearted man. Anyway, if your car got boxed in, and you only had a few seconds to pop open the trunk and prepare, clips or magazines would be handy. Maybe I will think Mosin-Nagant or Mauser...
Mauserguy

 

[Squidward]

'What do you think is the best gun to have when the police want to arrest you and everybody else wants you dead? Mauserguy'

I realize this is Rifle Country, but the "best gun" may be a handgun. Unobtrusive, concealable, and easier to use at extremely close ranges than a rifle.I'd store it in a lock box with extra ammo in the trunk.

But, if its GOT to be a rifle I'd take anything reliable and bone stock from the factory in a semi auto carbine

 

[Ignition Override]

Which lower-cost SKS would you buy, i.e. between a Chinese and Yugoslavian, if you decided to keep the gun for many years as a back-up to the Mini 30 and 14?
The Russians cost a bit more and I'm just a frequent plinker; prefer to spend the price difference on more ammo.

Already have two Mosins which pack a Punch at a distance, and are rugged.

Many SKS guys say Yugo, many Chinese Norinco.
Which is more durable with the better action, and feeds better etc from its basic internal magazine?
Have some of you guys/gals operated both many times?

 

[ECVMatt]

Lots of M1 Carbines were used during the riots...

or at least lots of folks had them at home. I sold tons of them during the riots and at the time they were considered C&R's, so folks could just walk out with them. This made them the most popular gun to sell during the the riots. We got boat loads of Carbines, magazines, and ammo. We would try to sell 5 or 10 at a time and then hold a small class, showing the folks how to use their newly purchased rifle.

I am a bit hesitant to sell guns to folks who don't know much about them, but people were pretty worked up and going to get a gun somewhere. I felt better knowing that we at least pointed them in the right direction and offered to help them at any point in the future. I can't honestly tell you how many carbines we sold, but it was in the hundreds. I would guess five or six hundred. We literally had UPS trucks full of carbine's pulling up to the store. They were mostly pre-sold and we had folks waiting for the trucks to unload.

After all that, I would say that any good serviceable rifle or shotgun would have worked fine during the riots. It seemed that most of the rioters would leave at the first sight of a gun. Only gun shops, pawn shops, and jewlery stores were attacked by large groups of criminals. The most important thing is to know your firearm and make sure it is in proper working condition.

We had a competitor who strapped a CAR-15 to his back and wore is the entire time of the riot. He grabbed it off the wall of his shop. After the riots were over we all went out to the desert to shoot and blow off some steam. His CAR fired one round and then jammed completely shut. He had to send it back to the mfgr. for repair. That could have killed him a few days earlier.

Matt

 

[cluttonfred]

I am sure the California types have already thought of this, but note that the Kel-Tec SU-16CA may fit Cali law but don't keep the mags in the stock or you've got the ammo attached to the gun.

That California assault gun flow chart is just horrible, but I am happy to see that a stock, unmodified Saiga will work just fine. The bad guys rarely come more than 10 at a time. ;-p

EDIT - %$#@! I take that back, Saigas are listed by name, though not with the correct importer/manufacturer. So that's probably out.

 

[Pontif]

For the money - British .303

I now this is a big, long range rifle. But, for a 10 shot, bolt action in a fairly heavy caliber, people would be noticing my "personal space" out to about 750 yards.

And for $300, or so, it ain't bad.

Thinking about the LA riots, I would prefer a Benelli Super 90 as a primary for the up close, tender moments - for those idiots that hit the truck driver in the head with the brick. Sorry, I just cannot erase those images. I usually don't pop off like that.

 

[tntwatt]

A good 12ga pump with a laser dot. You'd only have to shoot once. Then anyone you painted with the dot would run like crazy.

 

[TimboKhan]

12 ga with bean bags. no reason to kill people that are trying to come at you with fists alone.

The flaw that I see in your logic is your use of the word "people", which implies more than one. I can vaguely concede that I might not shoot a single person looking for a fistfight (although, in the right circumstances, I feel it is perfectly justifiable), but I cannot agree that more than one person looking to pound you is not justification for shooting. Frankly, it's not that hard to sustain a life-altering (or ending) head injury, internal injury or broken bones when you have one person whacking you, let alone multiple whackers. Call me bloodthirsty if you will, but if a crowd of more than one is rushing me with an eye towards beating me, I will shoot until I am out of ammo or until the threat is gone.

In an effort to stay on topic, I would prefer an AR in this role, but an SKS would be my next choice. Actually, for that matter, really any rifle would do. I have argued in the past that even my beloved Mosin Nagant would be suitable in this role, although it is admittedly not the best tool. In a perfect situation, it would be an AR chambered for 7.62x39.

 

[Funderb]

I just like beanbags. and typing beanbag.
I'll stick with beanbags.
Unless the riot were formed in order to specifically kill me, riots usually are directed at something, like a police riot squad, and aren't melees of random violence of everyone kill everyone else. If you get into a fight you probably could have avoided said fight.

 

[ctdonath]

Funderb,
Two words: Reginald Denny
The riot was not formed in order to specifically kill him, the riot was directed at anything in sight, the police vacated the area, there were melees of random violence against anyone of the wrong skin color, the fight sprung up around him and he was dragged out of his truck and dang near killed (suffered brain damage).
...and you want to throw beanbags.

 

[JohnnyGrey]

Unless the riot were formed in order to specifically kill me, riots usually are directed at something, like a police riot squad, and aren't melees of random violence of everyone kill everyone else. If you get into a fight you probably could have avoided said fight.

Have you really watched any riots take place? Violence is directed at anyone and anything. Bystanders are killed, shops are trashed and cars are burned and overturned. The next time you find yourself in a fight, blame yourself for being there as you're beaten to death.

I'll take my AR with all the 40rd mags I can hold.

 

[Funderb]

You seem to forget that this day's legal system does not often support us, the gun community, like it does the sob story "guns killt my family" group.

If people are attacking you, for no reason, and you shoot a beanbag at one or two guys, and they go down like sacks of potatoes, chances are the group consensus is going to be, "hey, let's leave that guy alone" not "lets kill the armed guy". In a riot situation, no one is going to inspect the wounded and then yell, hey, he's shooting bean bags!!" get him!!"
And you may worry about lawsuits, the injured will file suit, and you, the one who did not take anyone's life defending your own, will look much better than the man who killed 6 people that were attacking him with one of those "evil assault rifles". Because I can pretty garundamtee you that in that situation, the families, armed with sobs and cries of woe, will get you.

If the mob is shooting at you, by all means, shoot back with the hard rain.

Here's a compromise, you generally have an 9 round capacity in a shotgun, thanks mainly due to AWB expiration, put load three bean bags, one in the chamber, two in the tube. The remaining 6 may be 00 buckshot. If the bean bags fail, then by all means, you would be in the right to use the 00. Saving yourself does not ALWAYS mean others have to die.
But don't take that statement and try to accuse me of not supporting our right to bear arms. I enjoy the right very much. Maybe I don't see the merit in killing people as much as you do. If you know anything about the mob mentality, then you should know that even if a mob is doing bad things, doesn't mean everyone in the mob is bad, or deserves to die.

 

[Avenger29]

Funderb, when a mob gets enraged to the point of property destruction (and it doesn't take much, either), they think nothing of actually killing people.

My parents and their parents were around during the integration riots. My grandfather went and fetched his daughters from school and he took a 12 gauge shotgun with buckshot and plenty of reloads in his pocket.

 

[CAPTAIN MIKE]

My Thoughts

I believe a tactical shotgun is the best riot gun, no holds barred.

 

[30 cal slob]

well, if it's a zombie riot, all bets are off. it's minigun time.

if it's just zombies on a coffee/liver/other tasty innard break, transition to m4 carbine and have a steady pick.

 

[Browning]

Since you're in California and limited in what you can choose as far as semi-auto rifles go I would go with.

1st Choice A Scout Springfield M1A

2nd An M1 Carbine

3rd A Tanker M1 Garand

4th A Ruger Mini-14

I'd personally choose a semi-auto rifle (even if you have to use 10 round mags) over any kind of lever or bolt action rifle just because of the need for fast repeat shots. No matter how fast someone is with a bolt or a lever action that same person will be able to engage targets faster with a semi-auto rifle.

I'd have a preference towards the shorter rifles for this just because of the limited room in vehicles.

That being said, Reginald Denny would have been okay even if he just had an inexpensive $150 Hungarian PA-63 9X18 pistol or a surplus S&W model 10 .38 revolver. Does anyone doubt that those guys would have quit trying to pull him out so that they could bash his head in with a brick when they caught a face full of 9mm or .38 slugs as they opened the door to his truck? That would have been a much happier ending if that's what happened, as it stood though he was completely unarmed. With a handgun he could certainly could have brought it around quicker in the amount of space that he had to work with than he could have any rifle.

 

[ctdonath]

they go down like sacks of potatoes

The problem is when they get back up, sore, angry, and focused on you.

To paraphrase a wise man:
"If it comforts you to have it, do so, but do not load it, for if you load it you may have reason to fire it, and if you fire it you may hit someone, and if you hit someone you will annoy them and give them reason to do you great harm."

If it works, great.
If it doesn't, you're so screwed.

load three bean bags, one in the chamber, two in the tube. The remaining 6 may be 00 buckshot.

Extremely dangerous advice.
- Mis-count, and you've just mixed up "non-lethal" with "lethal". Baaaaaaaad news whichever way you goofed.
- If you need 00 now, you've got to discharge/unload three rounds of fluff to get to what you need.
- You've just obfuscated the behavior of a very dangerous tool. Under indicated usage conditions, your thought processes will be very simplistic and unable to rapidly process the obfuscation (this is well-documented and very likely: fight-or-flight kicks in, and your "fight" tool just became very iffy). The mob is coming at you and you just grabbed your chosen tool to stop them: are you sure those first three rounds are "harmless"?
- When the opposition realizes you're loaded with something relatively harmless, they'll be emboldened to take you down extra hard. Great: not only have you just encouraged them to attack, you've given them an invulnerability complex.

Again:
If it works, great.
If it doesn't, you're so screwed.

I actually appreciate the notion of not using such force when not appropriate.
The problem with the scenario, and your solution to it, is that if you have to pull that trigger (even with beanbags) such force is appropriate. Beanbags CAN be terminal, and you'd dang well better be ready for that consequence if you use it - and the situation had better warrant that result, at which point YOUR life is on the line and it's time to take things that seriously. Trying to downgrade that situation can get you killed.

Ironically, I'm sitting here listening to a techno mix CD, and the current song has lyrics depicting a mob mentality:

"No more slogans,
no more excuses,
no more blinding our eyes and baring our ***es to the world.
We have the power,
we have the resources,
we have the energy.
Let's get together and wreck s***."

Beanbags, anyone?

 

[SageMonkey]

+1 for a hand gun if possible. IF the police want to arrest anyone visibly armed and you must be where they could see you... a folding stock carbine or pistol grip 12ga would be other choices since they could be concealed if you really needed to be out in such a time.

For a rifle, the M1 Carbine would be near or at the top of my list. It is a very handy little rifle and has roughly similar ballistics to a .357 magnum. Low recoil, points well, etc. As an added benefit it doesn't look like an EBR and its history might endear it more to cops who might see it in your trunk one day.

 

[jfountain2]

Something like this would work for me.
Wild West Guns Bushwhacker (does not come with the bayonnet, or brass knuckle lever, but I bet the right gunsmith could fix that).

 

[jfountain2]

Oops... I just went to Wild West Guns website and it looks like they stopped offering the Bushwhacker.

 

[dagger dog]

Mini 14 .223 three 20 rd Ruger factory mags, look on the walls of the prisons, the guards there are used to putting down riots and thats what they carry, all those that knock the Mini, can't say a word here cause all you do in a riot is spray and pray accuracy is not a factory when fighiting a crowd ,just reliability, and with the way the Mini throws the brass you don't have to worry about you don't have to worry about tripping on the cases!

 

[verb0s]

my Norinco SKS with all my stripper clips loaded (thats 800 rounds) and the bayonet extended. it should make someone think twice before doing something potentially suicidal.

As my back-up, my western auto 20 gauge pump. I buy bulk ammo from walmart, they're sporting loads only, birdshot #7.5 shot .275 inch. It won't get penetration, but certainly will stop people when I go Rambo with it.

I don't see why would anyone else want a different rifle. Ammo is cheap and plentiful, it is easy to reload and fires as fast as you can bump-fire or pull the trigger, and you got a bayonet to dissuade people from attacking you in hand-to-hand combat. A bigger rifle will not put a bigger hole in people, but only hurt your shoulder, the recoil would also be harder to control in rapid fire.

My shotgun holds 5+1, I always load a round directly into the chamber first, then 5 shells if I have time in the magazine. No need to aim, just point and shoot. I wish I can get bigger shot for it, though. Birdshot hardly scars a tree.
My solution to birdshot's lack of power is- shoot in people's faces. I'd imagine that okay if a mob is directly coming towards me.

 

[Ergosphere]

20 rd Ruger factory mags

Nope, there's a 10-rd. magazine capacity limit in California...

 

[PAULREVERE]

If I were in an angry mob situation (terrorist attack, food supply cut off,hungry people, blah,blah,blah...) bean bags are the last thing I want in my 12 gauge. They will sue you anyway for felonious assault if that bean bag stings em too much. This is life or death, not here goes, hope he doesn't sue me after this.