Big and heavy or slow and fast

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For 300 yard deer hunting, light and fast bullets are where I live. I’ve killed deer with cartridges between 223rem up to 458 Lott, lightning fast lasers to rainbow trajectory punkin’ chunkers, 800fps to 3400… For fast anchoring and swift death, the pinnacle for me is something in the realm of 6 ARC, 243win, 257bob, etc. 100-120grn bullets at 2700-3000fps. Let them punch through to midline and explode like a grenade, and deer crumple fast. Lose a half dollar sized circle of meat on the inbound side and the same on the outbound.

Lots of other rounds work, but almost everything else comes with more recoil and more powder burn, and many popular cartridges don’t do the job as effectively.
 
AJC1 said:
Do you prefer speed or weight to take your game.
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Depends on what I am after and if I set a speed limit. If I want the ammunition to be subsonic and I need the energy to cleanly take that size animal I will use very heavy projectiles. If distances are extended so far trajectory becomes an issue, I like to bring speed to the party, maintaining adequate projectile weight for the intended target.

That said, I have killed a lot of stuff with the .22lr and it has neither…
 
Varminterror said:
For 300 yard deer hunting, light and fast bullets are where I live. I’ve killed deer with cartridges between 223rem up to 458 Lott, lightning fast lasers to rainbow trajectory punkin’ chunkers, 800fps to 3400… For fast anchoring and swift death, the pinnacle for me is something in the realm of 6 ARC, 243win, 257bob, etc. 100-120grn bullets at 2700-3000fps. Let them punch through to midline and explode like a grenade, and deer crumple fast. Lose a half dollar sized circle of meat on the inbound side and the same on the outbound.

Lots of other rounds work, but almost everything else comes with more recoil and more powder burn, and many popular cartridges don’t do the job as effectively.
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If starting at nothing 6arc would be hard to argue with as the perfect youth cartridge. Less recoil than the 243 and at close ranges would be easy day. The 6.5 Grendel probably just as easy.
 
AJC1 said:
If starting at nothing 6arc would be hard to argue with as the perfect youth cartridge. Less recoil than the 243 and at close ranges would be easy day. The 6.5 Grendel probably just as easy.
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About 10yrs ago, I took “youth” out of this sentiment and realized it remained true. That class of cartridges pushing 100-120’s to 2700-3000 are ideal for deer. Differences among them, eh…
 
hawg said:
I use a 165 grain Nosler BTBT out of a 26 inch barrel running 3000 FPS +-. The only place deer go is down.
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I have got perfect results out of the Hornady 165, BTSP. Both from a .308, and out of a .30-30. The .30-30 was at closer range, 35 yards, so not sure how it would perform at longer ranges, at .30WCF velocities. Can't argue with the 165's, even though I prefer a heavier bullet.
 
.38 Special said:
but I did end up experimenting with 220s. These hit game shockingly hard - and contrary to popular belief, only drop two or three inches more at 300 yards (with a hundred yard zero) than do the lighter spitzers - and I was hooked.
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When I first got my Savage 99 in .30WCF, I thought "wow, I can load a spitzer bullet". Then discovered the magazine is too short for anything but a 125. Then I looked into it, and also discovered the difference in drop, between a round nose and a spitzer is not much. However, a spitzer does carry much more down-range energy. Now I shoot 180 grain round-noses in all my .30-30's, including the Savage. Since I'm a 100 yard shooter, or again, maybe 150 yards, the differences in both drop and down range energy is miniscule, for me. For you 300 yard guys, something to think about.
 
AJC1 said:
I defined it in the op. 22-250 is fast and 338/358 would be comparatively slow. For a number for clarity let's say 2000 fps because that's 45-70 territory and it's definitely big and slow.
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No clarity in the OP. When you say "big & slow", people are thinking .45/70, not .338's.

The .22-250 is a varmint cartridge.
 
Ugly Sauce said:
I have got perfect results out of the Hornady 165, BTSP. Both from a .308, and out of a .30-30. The .30-30 was at closer range, 35 yards, so not sure how it would perform at longer ranges, at .30WCF velocities. Can't argue with the 165's, even though I prefer a heavier bullet.
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I used a 180 grain Remington Core-Lokt for many years but when I got into long range target shooting and reloading the 30-06 I wanted something that shot close to same POA as my Sierra 168 grain HPBT Match. The Nosler shot to same POA with two rifles. I was pleased with it's performance too.
 
AJC1 said:
A 77 lrx or 78 ttsx at 3300ish fps would poke quite the hole in anything you hit.
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It sure would if you can find a factory .22-250 that has the twist rate to support 77 or 78gr monolithic bullet. The vast majority of factory .22-250’s are a 1 in 14” twist which will not stabilize your bullet choice.
 
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CraigC said:
Methinks we have different definitions of "big & slow".
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This.

338/308 is slower, but a long way from slow...or heavy. Knock off another 6-700 fps and add 100 grains then we can talk. And then you'll understand the 300 yd concern.
 
H&Hhunter said:
It sure would if you can find a factory .22-250 that has the twist rate support 77 or 78gr monolithic bullet. The vast majority of factory .22-250’s are a 1 in 14” twist which will not stabilize your bullet choice.
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I shoot shilen barrels that I swap off my 3 savages. I don't consider factory limitations the same as I don't limit myself to factory ammunition. I guess that may be a problem for someone. Buying barrels is cheap compared to Buying guns.
 
AJC1 said:
I shoot shilen barrels that I swap off my 3 savages. I don't consider factory limitations the same as I don't limit myself to factory ammunition. I guess that may be a problem for someone. Buying barrels is cheap compared to Buying guns.
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Alrighty then, if you are hunting in a state where it’s legal to hunt deer with a .22 CF knock yourself out.
 
H&Hhunter said:
Alrighty then, if you are hunting in a state where it’s legal to hunt deer with a .22 CF knock yourself out.
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The point was that it can be done and that there is capable bullets to get the job done. I don't intend that to be one of my choices because it's not what I see as a best choice. I also don't see myself at the opposite extreme of a 257 Weatherby or the nossler cartridges. I'm also not keen on the 45-70 despite owning an XLR. I would very much like to spend some trigger time with a 35 Remington. I've bought 308 in 150 and 180 and loaded up a pile of 165 game kings and hot cores. I definitely don't have the answers but I can definitely come up with a solution if needed.
 
H&Hhunter said:
Alrighty then, if you are hunting in a state where it’s legal to hunt deer with a .22 CF knock yourself out.
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Apparently it is legal to hunt with any centerfire cartridge no limit on size.... I took your statement as a look up because that's how I learn and improve.... the first columb is deer and the section this is listed is large game. chrome_screenshot_1670808149695.png
 
I was still in undergrad school when my Aunt invited me to hunt their ranch in Texas for the first time. I asked which rifle I should bring, and how far we’d be shooting - her reply was to bring my AR, that would be all I’d need, as she and her husband were shooting 22-250. The deer were half the size of anything I’d hunted around home in Kansas, and the terrain was sparse enough we could have watched them run for a day before losing sight of them over the horizon… they did the job, and my eyes were opened to the performance of 22 CF’s on deer…

That said, although I’m not a big fan of 22 CF’s for deer, I’d have as much confidence in a 60 Partition from 22-250 or 223rem to do the job for deer under 250yrds as I do in anything. I’ve killed a few deer with it, and dozens of hogs - give it a run up to the lands like a monometal and it’ll usually concede to shoot right around or slightly under 1moa, and it opens quickly but the shank stays together to penetrate well. Very effective deer and hog bullet. I could easily be convinced a light nosed, heavy for caliber 22cal monometal would perform the same.

But I kinda lay my personal limit at 6mm’s.
 
Bottleneck = light and fast
Straight wall = heavy and slow.

That is how I more or less define them.

So I prefer heavy and slow mostly as 450 Bushmaster is my go to cartridge.

I dipped into the light and fast world this year with 300 Win Mag with 180gr bullets and the results were pretty spectacular. I probably won’t make it a habit to use it very often after this year’s big game hunt. Big Game = bigger than whitetail/mule deer. (Just thought I should clarify that since many folks call whitetail big game)
 
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