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Black powder too fast? now with video!

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by Pintothegreat, May 17, 2020.

  1. Pintothegreat

    Pintothegreat Member

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    Is it possible to make black powder that burns too fast? When I compare home made BP to pyrodex, goex and triple 7, the commercial powders seem to burn much slower in open air.
     
  2. Catman42

    Catman42 Member

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    you want the powder to burn out before it leaves the barrel. ive have even shot 4f real black in a 50 cal. muzzleloader. the results was less fouling and the gun cracked instead of when boom. i posted this on another site and every one went nuts except a couple who did the same as me. the truth be the pressure is the same as courser black but it burns faster. what ever powder you use you want it to burn 100 percent before it leaves the barrel. pyrodex is a poor choise as it isnt as accurate as real black and is much more corrosive. triple 7 is a accurate powder but hard to clean out of the breech of a rifle. good for cowboy handguns though. black horn 209 powder is a accurate powder and very clean but needs a shotgun primer to set it off. will work well in cowboy cartridges as well as the 45/70/s and such.
     
  3. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    I think yes. The military uses some in high explosives. IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY?

    Search here- https://discover.dtic.mil/
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2020
  4. Dave T

    Dave T Member

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    Not trying to be argumentative, I'm really curious. If Black Horn 209 takes a shotgun primer to set it off, how can it be shot in "cowboy cartridges"? Are you saying you have to drill out 44 WCF and 45 Colt primer pockets so they will take shotgun primers? Never heard of such a thing, but there's lots I don't know.

    Dave
     
  5. .38 Special

    .38 Special Member

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    I'm not sure that anything about internal ballistics can be learned by setting piles of gunpowder on fire. I honestly don't mean that in an insulting way - I just really don't know if there is any relationship between the two.

    Beyond that, I do know that increasingly finer grinds of black powder can result in increased burn rate and pressure. Elmer Keith apparently used powder he ground into the "consistency of flour" to blow up his SAA - though the oversized .45-70 bullets he was using no doubt contributed.
     
  6. Pintothegreat

    Pintothegreat Member

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    First of all, thanks for all the kind replies, second let me further clarify. Setting piles of gun powder on fire IS how you learn about making it, and is perhaps the only way of charting your progress. I have learned a lot about lead propellants. The most striking is the obvious difference between their burn characteristics, speed of energy released and residue. I have tested my home brewed powder in a small cardboard mortar that shoots potatoes with commercial black, but simply exploded using home made black. So there seems to be some correlation between speed and power. That's why I don't want to put it in my percussion revolver, just yet. I would think some one here might have some experience. I guess 99% of people just buy it. Anyhoo, I'll give a few more details. My black is made with the normal 75-15-10 ratio. ball milled and corned to 3F. For what it's worth "consistency of flour" BP burns slower. Commercial black powder and its substitutes burn with a hiss, and in my case, home made BP goes whump.
    Now I was thinking to load 20 grains BP and the rest with some cream of wheat or something. O and I think blackhorn is smokeless
     
  7. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    To Dave T:
    I think the point of calling it Black Horn 209 is that in muzzleloaders it requires a 209 shotgun primer jetting directly into the powder charge for reliable ignition compared with #10 or #11 percussion caps.

    I think centerfire cartridge primers, even the standard small pistol, are hotter than the #10 or #11 percussion caps. Shotgun 209 primers are definitely hot.
     
  8. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    To Pintothegreat:

    I load black powder rifle cartridges and muzzleloading rifles with FFg, pistol cartridges and cap'n'ball revolvers with preferably FFFg.
    I would not load cartridges with FFFFg (flintlock flash pan powder).
    I think you are wise in not trusting your revolver to "flour powder".
     
  9. Catman42

    Catman42 Member

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    black horn 209 powder works fine in 45 long colt, 45/70 44/40 and 38 special. the primers ment for that sets it off just fine. for a muzzleloader you need a shot gun primer nipple. they used the number 11 primers just are not hot enough. you can use them on a muzzleloader if you put 10 grains of 4f under the blackhorn 209 powder. some guys shoot black horn 209 in the stone locks. they put 4f real black up to the and a little past the flash hole and then the rest is 209 powder. they do this as you do not have to wipe between rounds when you use 209 powder as their is not crud in the barrel.
     
  10. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    I wouldn’t use 4F either unless all we had was standard Goex and the like, however it was historically used in paper Hazard’s cartridges during the Civil War as well as in metallic cartridges as a museum curator who disassembled them for display found out. This included large calibers. He said he also found some with finer than 4F.

    Ultimately I’m satisfied with 3F Olde Eynsford. It makes my NMA roughly a standard .45 ACP with bullets.
     
    arcticap likes this.
  11. Pintothegreat

    Pintothegreat Member

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    Yes, agreed black powder should be FFF for percussion revolvers. Homemade black powder should be corned and sifted to 3F between a 25 and 50 mesh screen. Anyone know if the speed of black powder has anything to do with pressure spikes that could result in catastrophic failure of a percussion pistol?
     
  12. SC45-70

    SC45-70 Member

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    I'm not sure about the burn rate for black powder. When ever I dispose of smokeless powder I burn it and am surprised how slow some of it burns. I know that smokeless will have more pressure when loaded in a cartridge than black even though it burns much slower in the open.

    SC45-70
     
  13. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    I think the only BP is Goex in your list?
    20200517_171836.jpg Screenshot_20200517-171640.jpg Screenshot_20200517-171557.jpg
     
  14. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    Ball not seated fully on the BP may do it.

    Revolvers may have chain firing. More than* one cylinder going off.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2020
  15. Pintothegreat

    Pintothegreat Member

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    Tripple7 on the left, home made black powder on right. Both are 2 gram piles.
    Black powder on the right seems to have little to no nitrate residue, only carbon
    residue. on the left is crunchy and hard to remove with a rag.

     
    Last edited: May 17, 2020
  16. Pintothegreat

    Pintothegreat Member

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    tripple 7 on left home made BP on right. they seem to be completely different animals.


    BP pick.jpg
     
  17. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    Yes, the sds seems to show that. Try to not blow yourself up playing with explosives.

    Be safe.
     
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