Black Powder vs Pyrodex vs Triple 777 - Least corrosive?

[DocRock]

So in a nutshell, the evidence you keep beating us over the head with does not refute what I said. Thanks. Was that so hard?

Craig, you insisted that Triple 7 was less corrosive than other subs. You have no evidence of this whatsoever. You did not know, did not bother to find out, that the corrosive salts from Triple 7 are the same ones that you, in your own words, said were "more corrosive than black powder or subs". Why do you keep at it? You made yourself look silly and you continue to do so.

 

[1KPerDay]

Not sure which is more corrosive but this thread sure is...

 

[arcticap]

The warning on the Blackhorn 209 labels clearly link corrosion to moisture and humidity.

 

[MatrixReality]

I wonder who can pee further , Doc or Craig ?

I don’t know, but Doc could send a specimen of each for a urinalysis to see which urine has a superior chemical composition. That would be intriguing!

 

[sleepysquirrel2]

The warning on the Blackhorn 209 labels clearly link corrosion to moisture and humidity.

That's really interesting, the BH209 label says do NOT use water-based solvents, which is the opposite of what is standard cleaning procedures for Black Powder OR corrosive ammo

 

[MatrixReality]

That's really interesting, the BH209 label says do NOT use water-based solvents, which is the opposite of what is standard cleaning procedures for Black Powder OR corrosive ammo

likewise, if you attempt to clean BP firearms with oil based cleaners it won’t work

 

[Jim Watson]

MSDS for BH is very coy, not giving actual compounds; but the first thing listed is "nitrate ester" which covers nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine. A "mineral oxidizer" could be potassium nitrate but I am too far from chemistry class to know what an "organic oxidizer" might be. A "carbonaceous substance" might be charcoal.

 

[DocRock]

MSDS for BH is very coy, not giving actual compounds; but the first thing listed is "nitrate ester" which covers nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine. A "mineral oxidizer" could be potassium nitrate but I am too far from chemistry class to know what an "organic oxidizer" might be. A "carbonaceous substance" might be charcoal.

If only we had some way of knowing what the constituents of BP and its substitutes are...

https://tsapps.nist.gov/publication/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=926574

 

[Jim Watson]

Ah, good. they did put BH under the IR. As usual for fakes, potassium perchlorate although apparently less than others but with some potassium nitrate. The Macguffin here is the guanidine nitrate which is the "nitrate ester" of the MSDS. I had not seen it before except in triple base smokeless, which starts showing up at about 30mm in military weapons. That may be why they recommend cleanup with solvent, BH Solvent is not much different from other brands of nitro solvent.

 

[sleepysquirrel2]

If only we had some way of knowing what the constituents of BP and its substitutes are...

https://tsapps.nist.gov/publication/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=926574

Yes, this article is where I found the chart in my first post



So we know what components and residues are present in BP and BP substitutes.
Though we don't know the concentrations or ratios of these components as between BP and the different substitutes, which may or may not play a big role in the corrosiveness.

likewise, if you attempt to clean BP firearms with oil based cleaners it won’t work

Whats odd is BH209 has potassium Perchlorate and so it should need water to rinse out the salts, though their website specifically states not to use water, because apparently it will "create gumming"

We strongly recommend using oil based solvents to clean guns using Blackhorn 209. Typical solvents for muzzleloaders are water based and are not recommended. Water based solvents will create gumming and is difficult to remove.

http://www.blackhorn209.com/specs/general-cleaning/

Now that might have to do with the Guanidine Nitrate, that none of the other substitutes have, or it could be some other binding agent that is unique to BH209.

 

[Jim Watson]

Looks like the ethylene glycol monobutyl ether (Butyl Cellosolve) in BH Solvent will dissolve the KCl.

 

[gtrgy888]

Old timers used to pee down the barrels of those flintlocks and percussion ML’s back in the day. They did it in a pinch when water had to be preserved in a dry environment. I would like to get some feedback from those unscrupulous souls that might try this! Anyone?

Alright guys, this has gone about far enough. I’ve already put conical bullets and roundballs in our freezer prior to loading for a tighter fit. I have a loading press in our kitchen, pounds of powder in our kitchen nook, and stacks of wood in our closet to test penetration. My wife has tolerated all this with good humor. But if she walks in on me pissing all over my gun and brushing residue into our toilet after a shooting session, I fear that patient woman will finally say enough!