Shot real Black powder for first time, I'm unimpressed

[Lyle]

You're the first I've heard report that Pyrodex is significantly more energetic than "regular" BP.
Even Pyrodex's claim is that it is nearly equivalent.

Check out the links. Good information.
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/01/th...rs-black-powder-vs-substitutes/#axzz7HK5EiAzP

and from our site.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/loads-for-36-cal-revolver.318696/

 

[hawg]

You're the first I've heard report that Pyrodex is significantly more energetic than "regular" BP.
Even Pyrodex's claim is that it is nearly equivalent.

There's a few other forums where people have posted chronograph results between Pyrodex and Swiss with similar velocities between the two. I don't have a chrono but I can't tell the difference by shooting. If you have to have a chrono to tell the difference there's not enough difference to matter.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

There's a few other forums where people have posted chronograph results between Pyrodex and Swiss with similar velocities between the two. I don't have a chrono but I can't tell the difference by shooting. If you have to have a chrono to tell the difference there's not enough difference to matter.

Aside from the fact that it is well known that pyrodex has poorer ignition, if true, why do you think pyrodex has not capatolized on this claim of increased energy?
That makes me a sceptic even though I know pyrodex can perform at least it's basic function under controled circumstances

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Never noticed any marginal ignition on Pyrodex, it's always gone bang and its never let me down either loaded in a front stuffer or a cartridge. I use it in my old Parker double and in 45/70s when I can't find anything else.

 

[hawg]

Aside from the fact that it is well known that pyrodex has poorer ignition, if true, why do you think pyrodex has not capatolized on this claim of increased energy?
That makes me a sceptic even though I know pyrodex can perform at least it's basic function under controled circumstances

I dunno. Why don't you try some for yourself instead of repeating internet drivel? The only thing I had poor ignition with was my 1863 Sharps. That was because it had a long firing channel with two turns in it. It still fired every time though. It was like a poorly timed flintlock. Everything else it's just as fast as Swiss. I don't own a flintlock.

 

[5whiskey]

Aside from the fact that it is well known that pyrodex has poorer ignition, if true, why do you think pyrodex has not capatolized on this claim of increased energy?
That makes me a sceptic even though I know pyrodex can perform at least it's basic function under controled circumstances

I have cold hard Chrono data that shows me Pyrodex is about on par with OE powder, which most here report to be about as energetic as Swiss. I don't know, I've never shot Swiss. I've shot OE, Pyrodex, Goex, and Grafs (which I think was made by Schutzen at the time). The Pyrodex and OE gave similar velocities, though OE was a bit faster in two of my guns. Not by much though. Grafs and Goex were more than 100 FPS slower with similar loads measured by volume, under the same projectile.

To each their own, but I don't understand the hate on Pyrodex. I don't see where it is much, if any, more corrosive or more difficult to clean than BP fouling. My go-to powder is Olde Eynsford though. Hands down. Except for in my 1851 "Navy" fantasy gun in .44, which shots amazing groups with Pyrodex for some reason.

 

[Seedy Character]

I have Pyrodex RS, TO loose and pellets and Goex FFg.

Supplies get short, I know how each shoots.

Prefer the Goex, but they all work.

The only place I have seen To, around here, is at Wally. Went in the weekend after MZ season closed and it was half price. 3 years ago, got 200 pellets and 4# of powder. Haven't been back.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

I dunno. Why don't you try some for yourself instead of repeating internet drivel?...

If you're implying that the fact that Pyrodex does not ignite as easily as real black powder is internet drivel then that disagrees with reports from multiple folks I know I can trust.

I didn't know I clicked the argue button.

Seems like a fair question -
If Pyrodex is more powerful than BP, you would think their marketing folks would capitalize on that fact. So I still wonder why they don't, but I'll leave it at that.

I use real BP in my BP guns, because using real BP is an important part of the experience to ME, so I have no plans at this time to try out Pyrodex.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

...but I don't understand the hate on Pyrodex...

I'm sure there is some hate out there -

Look at all the BP related ranting you can find (much of it on this forum) over things like the use of inline ignitions, brass frames, "wrong" shaped grips, trigger guards, etc., correct barrel length, correct caliber, use of sabots, incorrect holster designs, and on and on, that would make you think any one of those things turns a red blooded American into a communist.

Look at even this thread, in the Black Powder forum, bashing on black powder.

As I've said before. I use real BP in my BP guns because that is an important part of the experience for me. More important to ME than any of the silly gripes I listed above, but other folks have other opinions and some of those opinions seem to get irrationally close to hate.

 

[hawg]

If you're implying that the fact that Pyrodex does not ignite as easily as real black powder is internet drivel then that disagrees with reports from multiple folks I know I can trust.

I didn't know I clicked the argue button.

Seems like a fair question -
If Pyrodex is more powerful than BP, you would think their marketing folks would capitalize on that fact. So I still wonder why they don't, but I'll leave it at that.

I use real BP in my BP guns, because using real BP is an important part of the experience to ME, so I have no plans at this time to try out Pyrodex.

The ignition issue is only applicable in flintlocks and AFAIK Sharps rifles. It ignites in revolvers and percussion sidelocks just fine. I've used it since the 80's and I do know what I'm talking about. I prefer to use real black too but there's times I cant afford it. If you don't have any experience with it how can you repeat stuff you read on the internet as gospel? Because it definitely doesn't fit the facts.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

The ignition issue is only applicable in flintlocks and AFAIK Sharps rifles. It ignites in revolvers and percussion sidelocks just fine. I've used it since the 80's and I do know what I'm talking about. I prefer to use real black too but there's times I cant afford it. If you don't have any experience with it how can you repeat stuff you read on the internet as gospel? Because it definitely doesn't fit the facts.

Sounds like you agree Pyrodex is harder to ignite by your comment about flintlocks and Sharps rifles.
That is not to take away from the fact it ignites well enough to function in percussion revolvers and at least some (maybe most?) sidelocks. Although I do know folks who have experienced delayed ignition using Pyrodex in their rifles.

I've seen enough evidence to believe real BP is easier to ignite than Pyrodex.

If Pyrodex is working for you, then great, I'm not trying to convince you it's not.

 

[hawg]

Sounds like you agree Pyrodex is harder to ignite by your comment about flintlocks and Sharps rifles.
That is not to take away from the fact it ignites well enough to function in percussion revolvers and at least some (maybe most?) sidelocks. Although I do know folks who have experienced delayed ignition using Pyrodex in their rifles.

I've seen enough evidence to believe real BP is easier to ignite than Pyrodex.

If Pyrodex is working for you, then great, I'm not trying to convince you it's not.

I never said it wasn't harder to ignite. I didn't mean to imply it wasn't. I'm saying it ignites as well as Swiss in my revolvers and sidelocks. It is close to Swiss in performance. Swiss is more potent than Goex or Olde Eynsford volume to volume.

 

[LaneP]

I tried Pyrodex decades ago and do remember it feeling more energetic than Goex.

So I was down in the basement scrounging through my stuff and came on an old ammo can I had squirreled away stuff in and forgot about. Low and behold I had two lbs of Goex and a half lb Pyrodex among other things (love those old basement time capsules).

The Pyrodex had clumped a little but gently shaking the can loosened it right up. It looked and smelled "okay" as far as I can tell. No idea if that stuff breaks down with age or not, but it looked to be perfectly shootable. This would have been from the late 80's or early 90's. A sticker on top of the can says, "Up to 30% more shots per pound than black powder".

 

[Jimster]

Those Goex cans bring back good memories.

 

[gtrgy888]

I'm sure there is some hate out there -

Look at all the BP related ranting you can find (much of it on this forum) over things like the use of inline ignitions, brass frames, "wrong" shaped grips, trigger guards, etc., correct barrel length, correct caliber, use of sabots, incorrect holster designs, and on and on, that would make you think any one of those things turns a red blooded American into a communist.

Look at even this thread, in the Black Powder forum, bashing on black powder.

As I've said before. I use real BP in my BP guns because that is an important part of the experience for me. More important to ME than any of the silly gripes I listed above, but other folks have other opinions and some of those opinions seem to get irrationally close to hate.

I don’t hate companies that produce fantasy “cowboyesque” replicas in mismatched calibers, names, features, etc. They should just market them as “Old West inspired” or somesuch. Calling some corn bourbon “Authentic Scotch Whisky” just because the still operator threw some peat moss in the barrel would probably make actual connoisseurs cranky, even if less informed consumers will still pay less and enjoy the product for its effects. The term “Scotch Whisky” is legally protected and reserved for that reason. Similarly, my wife will happily settle for Taco Bell’s “Mexican inspired creations” at a stop on a road trip, but would be PISSED if I picked Taco Bell as an “authentic Mexican restaurant” for an anniversary dinner. Since I don’t drink anymore, and I’m not picky about restaurants, I’ll need to insist on authenticity in my percussion replicas. If I’m looking for an 1851 replica, it should have an octagonal barrel, a steel frame, and .36 caliber by default. If I want an 1862 pocket police, the gun should have a pocket sized frame and a stepped cylinder. If I want a chopped down 1860, it should be chambered in .44 caliber with a stepped cylinder. If I want an 1861, it should have a 7.5 inch barrel. Undiscerning consumers don’t know or care regardless, so there’s no good reason not to manufacture these weapons accurately or assign them fanciful names in the case of modifications.

 

[Don Van Winkle]

I shoot PDEX and with my frame loaded with Mobile 1; no worries on cleanup. Just the bore and the cylinder which are easy as pie. Since talking with Mike at Goons, I have been so impressed with the Mobile 1 and will always use it. It doesn'e breaksown in the triple digit heat of AZ either!

 

[5whiskey]

I don’t hate companies that produce fantasy “cowboyesque” replicas in mismatched calibers, names, features, etc. They should just market them as “Old West inspired” or somesuch. Calling some corn bourbon “Authentic Scotch Whisky” just because the still operator threw some peat moss in the barrel would probably make actual connoisseurs cranky, even if less informed consumers will still pay less and enjoy the product for its effects. The term “Scotch Whisky” is legally protected and reserved for that reason. Similarly, my wife will happily settle for Taco Bell’s “Mexican inspired creations” at a stop on a road trip, but would be PISSED if I picked Taco Bell as an “authentic Mexican restaurant” for an anniversary dinner. Since I don’t drink anymore, and I’m not picky about restaurants, I’ll need to insist on authenticity in my percussion replicas. If I’m looking for an 1851 replica, it should have an octagonal barrel, a steel frame, and .36 caliber by default. If I want an 1862 pocket police, the gun should have a pocket sized frame and a stepped cylinder. If I want a chopped down 1860, it should be chambered in .44 caliber with a stepped cylinder. If I want an 1861, it should have a 7.5 inch barrel. Undiscerning consumers don’t know or care regardless, so there’s no good reason not to manufacture these weapons accurately or assign them fanciful names in the case of modifications.

I feel you on the name semantics. In fact, we all know Pietta doesn´t make a small frame pocket pistol. They do produce a full framed gun (non-stepped cylinders) that they call a ¨1862 NYM Police¨ though. I was looking for a pocket police a bit ago, and was ignorant to the fact that Pietta´s ¨1862¨ is not an 1862 at all. I do tend to do my due diligence before making a purchase over a couple hundred dollars, but even I had to research a good bit to realize that Pietta´s gun is essentially a short barreled Army with a fluted cylinder. Sure if you go buy one at a gun shop the difference is obvious. Ordering from Midway, Dixie, or somewhere else? The difference is not as obvious when looking at it online. I´m sure there are people out there who have ordered said revolver before not realizing that it wasn´t actually an appropriately sized 1862. Heck some of them may not have realized how much smaller a real 1862 would be even after they got their purchase. I´ve nothing against period incorrect C&B revolvers. I got started in this hobby with one, and I still shoot it. In fact it still shoots very well considering that it´s a brass framed .44, and I have a few hundred rounds with loads exceeding 30 grains through it. Still, I do agree that the inspired guns should be more clearly marketed as such.

 

[misskitty2]

i agree with hawg i have no problem cleaning my guns ,i don"t know does it make a difference if your loading shells

 

[Mark_Mark]

late to the game but, shot my first BP about 2-3 years ago, I knew this will eventually be me. Very Primitive and basic and had a special feel and smell!!!

 

[ClemBert]

Last year I bought a lb of 2 and 3 Fg Goex and wanted to see how it felt compared to my current go to substitute in Triple 7 and uh... it didn't really make me feel real black was anything special. It had the same recoil and feel, I know it's less energetic than T7, and even the smell of the smoke didn't smell much different or better.

That said I liked shooting the Goex more than Pyrodex, it smells much better and is less of a mess to clean and less corrosive. I did not shoot any paper with the Goex, that will be the next time I go shooting, but I know Pyrodex is very accurate out of my percussion revolvers. If the Goex shoots as well as Pyrodex, I think I will keep a couple pounds on hand and give my remaining Pyrodex away, but I will not be replacing Triple 7 as my primary powder for muzzleloaders.

Yeah, it doesn't quite have the same satisfaction of that phaser you're holding.

 

[hawg]

I don't understand why people have varying experiences with Pyrodex. Some say it slow fires. Some say it will rust a gun up overnight. Some claim it ruins barrels. Some claim it has inconsistent velocities, some say it's harder to clean. I'm sure there are more complaints. Some people make their claims without ever using it. They just repeat what someone else told them. IMO you have no right to make claims against it if you haven't tried it for yourself. It is a little harder to ignite than real bp. It does not work in flintlocks. I personally have not tried it in a flintlock but that is an across the board complaint that everybody agrees on. I do know it slow fires in Sharps paper cutters. The Sharps has a long firing channel with two turns. Of all the other complaints my experiences are just the opposite. For me it cleans just as easy as real bp. A couple of passes with a bore mop and the bore is bright and shiny. It has instant ignition in sidelocks and revolvers. I frequently go two or three days and have gone as long as nine days without cleaning and had no signs of rust. I don't shoot over a chrono, don't even own one but I can't tell any difference in power between Pyrodex and Swiss. IMO if you need a chrono to tell the difference there isn't enough difference to matter. As far as I can tell there's no difference in velocity. One shot feels and sounds the same as all the others.

 

[TTv2]

Pyrodex has a few qualities that I like, but one big problem I don't.

I like that it is cheap, it can achieve good velocities when more is used and compressed (it compresses better than black powder), and it is accurate on paper, more than Triple 7 and I think more than BP.

The biggest issue I have is it is much harder to clean, the residue is like tar, and if it's not cleaned within a few days, it will eat steel. Even after cleaning it once, it seems it has to be cleaned again a day later because the stuff is just that sticky.

Once my stock is used up, I'm never buying it again. Triple 7 and Goex do all I need.

 

[hawg]

The biggest issue I have is it is much harder to clean, the residue is like tar, and if it's not cleaned within a few days, it will eat steel. Even after cleaning it once, it seems it has to be cleaned again a day later because the stuff is just that sticky.

Not true unless you use a petroleum based lube. Pyrodex fouling is easy to clean. It does not eat steel. I've left one uncleaned for nine days and it didn't rust. Clean it once and put it away for years and it wont rust.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Agree with Hawg, I use Pyrodex in a lot of stuff as well as T7 and the holy black. I have tried in a rocklock, it will fire but not reliably enough to do any thing serious. With a good sparking lock it took about 4 tries before it went boom. Other times it took 2, sometimes it didn't go off at all. This series of tests was done with a custom built .36 cal rifle with a Siler lock. It was extremely reliable with black powder. I wanted to see if Pyrodex would actually fire in it and it did, but too much of a PITA to actually use in the flinter.

 

[woodnbow]

Saw some Pyrodex and Triple 7 for sale yesterday along with three tins of cci 11’s. I don’t need the caps or the powder so I left it for someone else but I like the substitutes generally. Pyrodex is just fine. Triple 7 sometimes leaves a crud ring in the sub 50 caliber bullet rifles.