Browning High Power - cocked & locked?

[Bill B.]

I know there are a lot of High Power fans on this forum. I have never owned one ...........yet. Do you carry them cocked and locked? I carry a 1911 cocked and locked but put a measure of faith in the grip safety. It just don't appear to be a good idea on the HP especially with a ambi safe. Face it, Glock gets a bunch of flack for not having a safe. What say you on the Browning HP?

 

[VaughnT]

Comparing the BHP to a glock is just plain wrong!

I carry my BHP cocked and locked, and don't worry in the least. This is how the weapon was designed to be carried and carrying any other way pretty much destroys the chances of deploying that weapon in a defensive situation (cause you just don't have time to rack a slide!).

The glock has no safeties, the BHP has a heavy trigger pull, thumb safety and mag-disconnect safety. You can see which is clearly the safer weapon.

 

[1911Tuner]

Con-One Hi-Power

Howdy Bill,

Never owned a High-Power either, and have actually handled only a few...surprisingly enough...but I'd say that it can be carried in Condition 1
with as much confidence as the 1911. The grip safety of the 1911 and the thumb safety are redundancies that back each other up...and the half-cock
stops the hammer in the event of a catastrophic breakage of the two
separate systems, provided that it hasn't been modified and the gun is mechanically sound. The High-Power works on much the same principle,
except for the grip safety that many feel is unnecessary and something of a nuisance.

And now.......Wait for it...You had to know it was comin'................

It's NOT safe...It's a GUN!

 

[jacketch]

Having carried both a BHP and a 1911 cocked and locked for a number of years, I find the BHP to be just as safe as the 1911.

 

[Bill B.]

Does the armed services which carry the Browning HP all carry them cocked and locked? I am just curious if this is standard carry. I would make the assumption they use a flap type holster where the safe would be less likely to get bumped off? Thanks for the replies guys!

 

[isp2605]

In the mid-80s I was deployed to Germany and assigned to British RAF police and Regiment units. The RAF Police carried unloaded BHPs in a full flap holster. When drawing their weapons from the armory they were given a small sealed paper wrapped package of 10 rds of 9mm. Those rds were placed in the bottom of the holster and the BHP was holstered over those rds. If they had to use the BHP they would have to draw the BHP, dig the paper package of 9mm out of the bottom of the holster, remove the magazine from the BHP, reholster the BHP, open the package of ammo, load the magazine, draw the BHP, and then insert the magazine. When they went off duty they'd turn in their BHPs and the paper package of ammo was examined. If the paper was torn or frayed it had to be rewrapped and sealed.
However, along with the BHP they were issued Stens which were all carried with fully loaded mags inserted and the bolt down on an empty chamber. They were routinely having ADs when someone would catch a bolt going thru a doorway or getting out of a vehicle.

 

[1911Tuner]

Armed Services

Howdy Bill,


The answer is...probably not. Most military personnel who are issued a pistol are held to Condition 3 carry unless "Action is Iminent." That allows
for a pretty loose interpretation of the word, depending on the AO. If you're in a war zone, action is always iminent, or at least arguably so...but the carrying of a cocked and locked single-action autopistol would be heavily frowned upon at Camp Lejeune or Ft. Hood unless specifically directed or authorized, and only then under an alert or "Stand By" status.

The guys who were unauthorized to have a pistol, but lucky enough to scrounge one when I was in Vietnam varied in their preferred carry mode...
but most opted for Con-2 with the pistol tucked away out of sight. Open
display of a pistol was often a sniper magnet. I had one, and carried it in Con-1 in either a cobbled-up rig that was slung almost horizontally across my chest, or tucked into my waistband "Mexican-Style" under a shirttail with a length of parachute cord that was tied to make a sort of slide holster...again, depending on where I was and what I was doing. (Different story) I knew enough about the gun to feel confident in that mode, but very often returned it to 2 as soon as I was far enough from certain areas...mainly to keep from upsetting anybody that might catch sight of it. When night fell, back to 1 it went...no matter where I was.

EDIT:

Whoops! Just noticed a typo in the initial paragraph. Should have been:
"...Held to Condition 3 carry." (Hammer down/Empty chamber)

 

[Old Fuff]

The Browning Hi-Power (P-35) was designed to be a military sidearm, and as such cocked & locked carry wasn’t even slightly considered. Anyone with doubts should look at the small thumbpiece that came on the regular manual safety. The concept of carrying in Condition One originated with, and was popularized by Jeff Cooper’s writings. As Tuner indicated, military forces - including our own did not sanction cocked & locked carry.

That said, this pistol is often carried in that way today, and there is no history of problems when this is done. If one feels they need an additional safety I suggest a good-quality holster that has a thumb-break strap that fits between the back of the slide and the front of the (cocked) hammer - and in effect prevents that hammer from falling regardless if the manual safety is on or off (of course it should be “onâ€.)

 

[1911Tuner]

RAF

isp2605 stated:

...they were given a small sealed paper wrapped package of 10 rds of 9mm. Those rds were placed in the bottom of the holster and the BHP was holstered over those rds...etc.
__________________________

Forsooth! And...did any of the people issuing those directives stop to consider what the lads were gonna do if their primary weapons
failed, malfunctioned, or ran dry in the middle of a fight???

That would be, what...Condition minus 3 or 4?

Unbelieveable! Wonder how many "Tommies" procured their own
magazine and ammo for their tours? Sure, if caught it might result in a light disciplinary action...but dead is dead. I know what my attitude and likely response would have been...and was on one occasion:

"Sir! I suggest that the (name the rank) go suck air for supper...Sir!

 

[MICHAEL T]

When I was a MP in early 70's at Ft Carson Co. we had a NG unit from St. Louis area come out for summer camp. They were suppose to work with us. Now their CO had a the mag release 's removed from their weapons. When I question this .He told me most of his people were St Louis or E. St Louis police officers and they were trigger happy, he didn't want them shooting our GI's:banghead:

 

[isp2605]

"Forsooth! And...did any of the people issuing those directives stop to consider what the lads were gonna do if their primary weapons
failed, malfunctioned, or ran dry in the middle of a fight???"

Their orders allowed them to load when the situation looked like it was going to get bad, ie, the Rooskies started coming down the gap. It didn't make much sense they would carry their Stens with loaded, inserted mags but such an ordeal with their BHPs.


"Wonder how many "Tommies" procured their own magazine and ammo for their tours? Sure, if caught it might result in a light disciplinary action..."

I never knew any of them to go off policy. Discipline in the Regiment and RAF Police wasn't light. Just one AD with the Sten usually ran $400 and extra duty. They'd fine their people for relatively minor infractions and heap on the extra duty. They ran a tight ship.

 

[BHPshooter]

Yes, Cocked and Locked is okay. You've got the thumb safety, which blocks the sear; the half-cock notch; and on newer models, the MkIII firing pin safety, which blocks the firing pin unless the trigger is pressed.

It is just as safe as the 1911, I'd dare say. Seriously, having the safety wipe off is quite unusual... I've never had it happen while hiking, camping, or around the house (but that's about the extent of my carry at this point).

Wes

 

[Bill B.]

isp2605

That's has to be one of the strangest things I have ever heard of:

they were given a small sealed paper wrapped package of 10 rds of 9mm. Those rds were placed in the bottom of the holster and the BHP was holstered over those rds.

I knew the British didn't seem to like pistols but apparently they didn't care a lot for the troops either!

Getting back to cocked and locked the BHP would be no different safety wise than a single action auto such as the Luger with a internal hammer. I have had several ask me at the range if I knew my 1911 was cocked. I had another ask me if that wasn't a dangerous way to carry a pistol. As 1911 Turner said I assured him the 1911 was a dangerous pistol! They all are as a matter of fact! I still feel that for me personally if I was going to carry the BHP Cocked & Locked I would want the small safety. I have seen some of the ambi ones that pushed off easily. Thanks for all the replies! I really wanted to know how most carried the BHP in a ready to use situation.

 

[Marshall]

I carry mine cocked and locked all the time, never a prob.

They're not to be compared to or even mentioned in the same paragraph as Glocks, a person could end up in heII for that, LOL.

 

[isp2605]

"That's has to be one of the strangest things I have ever heard of: "

Yup, was really weird for us too. I carried a S&W Model 15 and Colt XM177 all loaded and ready. They carried their Stens loaded and ready. But when it came to their BHP they had that ritual. I figured it was probably a carry over from some homeland policy that never got changed or modified for deployed sites.
Then again, after working with some of those Regiment guys I wasn't too sure it was safe to give guns, knives, or sharp sticks. Crazy bunch.

 

[Wildalaska]

Cocked and locked in a Galco Royal Guard as we speak

WildorasitypethisAlaska

 

[SDC]

As long as you follow the 4 rules and engage the PRIMARY safety on any handgun (the one between your ears), I don't see any difference between the 1911, the GP35, or a Glock. Provided you're carrying it in a holster which prevents something from intruding into the trigger-guard, there's nothing to worry about with any of these designs.

 

[carebear]

Even with the safety wiped off it isn't a big deal if it is in a good holster (stiff body, covered trigger). I'll occasionally find my Commander adn HP off safe at the end of the day, used to bother me til I figered out they weren't going off in the holster and if I had to draw it was comin' off anyway. Rule 3 and all that as a last line of defense.

Say, Ken, you were right about that cheapo ambi I had you put on my HP, I'll have to come get a OEM on soon.

 

[Wildalaska]

If your safety is wiping off in the holster sumpin is wrong

WildneedsfixinAlaska

 

[carebear]

Well, as far as the HP goes it is because of my cheap choice in ambi's.

With the Commander, it is typically after a work day of climbing around in the rafters.

I'll bring it in when I get off my butt with the HP.

Thanks

 

[Dorrin79]

there's also the FN SFS option - I don't have a problem with carrying a MKII or MKIII C&L, but the SFS circumvents the problem completely.

As a bonus, it has a lighter trigger out of the box than NIB HP's I've seen lately, and there is no risk of hammer bite with abbreviated SFS hammer type.

 

[Skofnung]

I didn't like going C&L with the MKIII that I owned several years ago. It was mostly a range gun anyway.

The thumb saftey did not feel as "positive" as that of a 1911. What I mean is, it did not "snap" in and out of its detent. You could brush it on and off with very little force.

I'm sure it would have been fine, but that thumb saftey thing was a mite disconcerting.