Bye-bye Hi-Power, says Browning...

[Dr.Rob]

BHP is one of the most svelte of the 9mm's there is. Compared to a 92F or other service sized pistol it's almost waspish.

While plastic has come into fashion, it has not rendered steel obsolete. Browning's big drawback has been the high price. Surplus FNs have flooded the market recently, offering would-be consumers considerable savings.

Would the BHP be 'better' with a rail? Doubtful. But an aluminum alloy frame and night sights certainly make it better. I suspect it will soldier on as clones continue to pop up and surplus guns are in circulation.

 

[greyling22]

Other than cdi sales on gun broker, any good sources for surplus hi powers?

 

[Pilot]

WVsig. I like your style!

 

[WVsig]

Other than cdi sales on gun broker, any good sources for surplus hi powers?

They have really dried up. AIM sometimes get a small batch here and there. The CDI guns these days are bottom of the barrel. The days of excellent to VG surplus BHPs are gone.

 

[solman]

The Browning Hi Power was the first handgun I ever bought. It felt so natural in the hand at the time and still does. That was 30 years ago and I still have it. I believe the price I paid was around $400 in the later eighties. Some years ago looking to better the trigger I removed the mag safety, It wasn't hard to do if your inclined and not very complicated. It didn't help the trigger the way I thought it would. I put it back in as it doesn't bother me and then proceed to remove and polish all the trigger related parts. Being careful not to remove any metal I just polished them. Not only the direct contact areas but also the sides of these parts which needed it most. I think watching a few videos on youtube and such was my inspiration on this project. It helped a lot and the trigger is now about 5-6 lbs. If I recall correctly I think the trigger pull was about 71/2-8 lbs when I started so it wasn't a drastic change but enough to make it feel a whole lot better.
also note that I have fired thousands of rounds through this gun without any problems. As I reload any failures were my fault on ammo and not that of the gun.
Yes it's a shame but price and plastic has pushed this great Browning out of the market.

 

[Rembrandt]

Does that mean a 1971 Browning Renaissance,new, unfired with pouch and papers is going command big bucks?

I'll find out and let you know what happens....

Have a few Hi-Powers, always enjoyed the workmanship and simplicity of the design. Glad I got them when I did, imagine HP variations will be much harder to find.

Peter Stahls .22 conversion kit, Ciener conversion kit, 9mm's and 40's.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

I bought one in 1976 with adjustable sights for $357. plus tax. The Browning was the first high capacity 9mm, and I shot that old gun thousands of rounds & the only problem was with the first hollow points that came along, the Speer jsphp which hung up on the feed ramp. In all fairness these guns were never made for anything else but ball ammo. Come to think of it, I've never had a problem with anything that Browning put their name on.

 

[dogtown tom]

I think the CZ 75 and it’s clones have made the high power obsolete...

I don't. The CZ75 and clones were fifty odd years late to even being able to compete with the Hi Power.
The gun that made the Hi Power obsolete was the Glock 17......the same gun that made the CZ75 and clones obsolete.

 

[Bigmike79]

the Glock 17......the same gun that made the CZ75 and clones obsolete.

Because a CZ P01 seems obsolete after handling a Glock 17 (rolls eyes)

 

[dogtown tom]

Because a CZ P01 seems obsolete after handling a Glock 17 (rolls eyes)

Even CZ believes the 75 is obsolete. Hence, the P-10.
No military or LE wants steel framed guns anymore. They love the plastic.

CZ's motto should be "CZ......bringing excellence 35-40 years after everyone else".

 

[ATLDave]

You have to have an incredibly myopic view to think that steel framed guns are "obsolete" because that's not what cops mostly carry.

Most cops are about as knowledgable about guns as they are about the pens they use to write parking tickets.

 

[Bigmike79]

Even CZ believes the 75 is obsolete. Hence, the P-10.
No military or LE wants steel framed guns anymore. They love the plastic.

CZ's motto should be "CZ......bringing excellence 35-40 years after everyone else".

CZ made a polly Striker for the same reason almost everyone makes a micro 380 now. You're putting way too much thought into it. Just because they decided to enter the polly striker Market doesn't mean it will be replacing their Flagship models.

The P01 and P07 are CZ's Premier law enforcement and Military sidearms these days. The P01 is NATO approved and used by the Czech National Police as well as several other law enforcement agencies in Eastern Europe.

Also, neither one of these CZ-75 varients have a steel frame. Do a little research.

 

[WVsig]

CZ made a polly Striker for the same reason almost everyone makes a micro 380 now. You're putting way too much thought into it. Just because they decided to enter the polly striker Market doesn't mean it will be replacing their Flagship models.

The P01 and P07 are CZ's Premier law enforcement and Military sidearms these days. The P01 is NATO approved and used by the Czech National Police as well as several other law enforcement agencies in Eastern Europe.

Also, neither one of these CZ-75 varients have a steel frame. Do a little research.

You forgot that the Polymer Phantom is the Czech Army pistol.

 

[Blkhrt13]

I need to find a good used one or a clone before all that is left are overpriced or poor quality clones.

 

[Bigmike79]

You forgot that the Polymer Phantom is the Czech Army pistol.

From what I understand, they are still slowly phasing out the 75b, but their special forces groups are all using the SP01 Phantom now. Slovakia is doing the same thing with the P09 which is the full size version of the P07 and also a poly DA/SA.

I've always thought that the biggest reason you don't see these pistols being used for LE or military much in western Europe or the states is because they still have that Com-block stigma attached to them unlike the Sig or Beretta DA/SA pistols. The biggest reason Glocks are so popular in LE has more to do with the notion that Glock aggressively pursues LE and military contracts, not because DA/SA pistols are outdated. I also think that the reason companies like Ruger or S&W jumped on the striker thing has more to do with them wanting to mimic Glock and not because the designs they had were outdated.

The M&P series has been pretty solid, but I definitely preferred Ruger's P series over their vurent striker pistols.

 

[ATLDave]

Glock markets to LE with the pitch that LE officers are too non-gun-familiar to work anything with a manual of arms harder than a revolver. Seriously, that's a big part of their pitch.

Arguing that LE's wide adoption of plastic striker-fired guns means metal-framed, hammered guns are obsolete is like arguing that cops' widespread use of Chevy Caprices as cruisers means that Mercedes and BMW's and Porsches are "obsolete." It's a preposterous argument.

 

[Gary A]

I’m a fan of the Hi-Power and a somewhat reluctant fan of the Glock but consider that even with a Glocks probably insane profit margin, a new Hi-Power costs nearly double that of a new Glock which has a greater return-on-investment for the company. Plus the fact that even Hi-Powers fans admit (mostly) that the HP design and lock-up with its barrel lags locking into the slide is less forgiving of high-pressure ammo than the Sig-type breech lockup most commonly used by pistols today. The Hi-Power is as beautiful and effective as ever but practically speaking it has been superseded by less beautiful but more utilitarian designs. It is a pity but true, imo.

 

[ATLDave]

the HP design and lock-up with its barrel lags locking into the slide is less forgiving of high-pressure ammo than the Sig-type breech lockup most commonly used by pistols today.

Um, lots of pistols designed for high-pressure ammo still use barrel/slide locking lug interfaces. For instance, most of the USPSA/IPSC race guns (and by most I mean 95+%) that are built to run quite high pressure ammo are built on 1911/2011 platforms, with CZ/Tanfoglio's also in some use. I believe all of those have locking lugs at the top of the barrel, as opposed to a single huge barrel hood lock, if that's what you're talking about. No doubt those designs require either more fitting or closer manufacturing tolerances, but I wouldn't think they are less forgiving of pressure.

Or maybe I misunderstood your comment.

 

[Gary A]

ATLDave, I don’t think you misunderstood. I do think you described it better than I did. I agree what you are saying but everything I have ever read about Hi-Powers (and I am admittedly no expert) has described the lock up as a potential weak point. Some sources claim it is an overblown issue and others say a relatively low number of +P and certainly +P+ ammo will round the lugs. Most recommend a limited diet of high pressure ammo and stronger recoil springs and possibly buffers. Browning at one time claimed to have fired 5000 high pressure round through a MkIII without any damage but I think most would agree that some more modern pistols could do that in spades having been designed for it. I’m not knocking the Hi-Power. I’ve had 4 or 5 over the years and love them. Personally I do prefer the barrel hood lock up.

 

[ATLDave]

I find it entirely plausible that Hi-Powers are not especially robust at the lug/slide interface that makes it vulnerable to heavy-recoiling ammo (I doubt it's the pressure, per se, unless you're bursting the chamber - just the recoil/slide velocity generated by "hot" ammo). My point was merely that there are plenty of slide-barrel-lug lockups that do quite well with heavy-recoiling/hot ammo with round counts well into the many tens of thousands of rounds. The specific design and/or manufacturing techniques and/or materials used in Hi-Powers may make them vulnerable to problems that designs using a similar lockup get past.

 

[Gary A]

ATLDave - and your point is well-taken. Thanks for the clarification. At any rate, it is sad to such an iconic pistol fade into the sunset. Thankfully, the 1911 seems to yet have a long life ahead of it.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Glock markets to LE with the pitch that LE officers are too non-gun-familiar to work anything with a manual of arms harder than a revolver. Seriously, that's a big part of their pitch.

Arguing that LE's wide adoption of plastic striker-fired guns means metal-framed, hammered guns are obsolete is like arguing that cops' widespread use of Chevy Caprices as cruisers means that Mercedes and BMW's and Porsches are "obsolete." It's a preposterous argument.

A local Sheriff's Deputy recently asked me what the "M&P" stands for.......and she was carrying one!

 

[Blkhrt13]

ATLDave, I don’t think you misunderstood. I do think you described it better than I did. I agree what you are saying but everything I have ever read about Hi-Powers (and I am admittedly no expert) has described the lock up as a potential weak point. Some sources claim it is an overblown issue and others say a relatively low number of +P and certainly +P+ ammo will round the lugs. Most recommend a limited diet of high pressure ammo and stronger recoil springs and possibly buffers. Browning at one time claimed to have fired 5000 high pressure round through a MkIII without any damage but I think most would agree that some more modern pistols could do that in spades having been designed for it. I’m not knocking the Hi-Power. I’ve had 4 or 5 over the years and love them. Personally I do prefer the barrel hood lock up.

Yes but isn’t 9mm nato hotter than current is production. There might need to be some question as to level of heat.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

The Hi-Power was killed off because of its price tag.

Glock and all their myriad knockoffs made it possible to buy a no-**** military grade pistol for about $500 each. Versus them, the Hi-Power selling for twice as much offered no real benefit. I bet they would have still moved if they were $600 or $700 a piece, but quality and worksmanship has long been Browning's calling card and they weren't going to risk their brand by cheapening up the Hi-Power.

 

[NWPilgrim]

I need to find a good used one or a clone before all that is left are overpriced or poor quality clones.

My thoughts exactly. I really enjoy shooting a BHP without the mag safety. 9mm with a SA trigger. Slim slide. I am not interested in a show piece for collecting, just a nice solid range shooter. I have shot early models with the skimpy fixed front sight, but would like to own a new model with the replaceable sights.

I have several Glocks for self defense but the BHP and a tuned 1911 are a joy to shoot.

I wonder if FN will sell the license and equipment so that perhaps another company could make Official Hi-Powers? It would be nice that since FN is stepping out of that market, that the design could be open source and lots of smaller companies make copies at competitive prices.