Can 9x18mmMakarov Guns Fill the Void Between .380 & 9mm?

[Gun Master]

There have been many opinions expressed re: acceptable cal. / mm for CCW. Most seem to agree .380 is the bare minimum. Others rebutted 9mm is the least. Some express belief that 9mm (and larger), are too heavy for daily carry. That's where 9x18 Makarov guns come in. Can the currently available &/or manufactured 9x18 guns provide a middle ground? How long will the supply of Mak guns and surplus/commercial ammo be available?

 

[mgmorden]

Nothing wrong with 9mm Mak per sé, but I don't mind .380. It's "between" .380 and 9mm Luger, but about like Nashville is "between" Washington DC and Los Angeles - 9mm Mak is much closer to .380 than it is to 9mm Luger.

Also, if you compare most guns in 9mm Makarov to something like a Kahr CW9, Ruger LC9, etc, the 9mm Luger is lighter and smaller. I own both a CZ-82 and a Makarov, and neither are particularly light or as thin as newer CC oriented 9x19's.

In short - if you've got a 9mm Mak gun it'll serve you just fine, but if you're buying from scratch it doesn't really offer much over 9mm guns.

 

[kjrobinson1]

I wish I could help you out. But I'm curious myself. I just picked up a Polish P64. I think it's up to the task, but I'd love to hear more informed opinions.

 

[fastbolt]

Can 9x18mmMakarov Guns Fill the Void Between .380 & 9mm?

What void?

Caliber-wise? Power? Manufacturer support?

Is it a cartridge in common use by American gun makers, and benefiting from design advancements being commonly seen in modern American-made defensive ammunition?

There are folks who enjoy owning and using foreign (Eastern Bloc) surplus military & police handguns. Importation of such guns and ammunition have found a decent market among private owners, it seems.

However, there are smaller & lighter weight .380's, as well as lighter and similarly small (or slightly smaller) 9's, commonly available from major manufacturers.

Buying an imported used/surplus pistol versus buying one from a major manufacturer who offers warranty support, parts, etc?

Personally, when I look to find something "between" my assorted compact/subcompact 9's and my little LCP, I look to my assortment of 5-shot J-frame snub revolvers.

 

[righteoushoot]

Is my East German Mak easier to carry than my Shield 9? Not really, but the slide portion is smaller since the recoil spring is around the barrel rather than under it. I don't own a Nano, but did own a PM9 which carried smaller.

However, there is something cool about the Mak. Practically speaking, and if I were to recommend a gun to a relative, I would say you have enough choices in 9mm before you need to go looking at 9x18. If you can get a Mak for $200, and can get ammo, nothing wrong with that either.

 

[browningguy]

There is no void between the .380 and 9mm, it a little on the ???? side to decide you need cartridges with only 10 ft. lb.'s or whatever gap between them.

Nothing wrong with a Mak, but it doesn't fill a non-existent void, it's just another similar cartridge.

 

[RX-79G]

Good SD ammo for 9x18 Mak isn't that common. Looking at Hornandy's offerings, 9x18 makes 211 foot pounds, while the .380 is 200 for similar bullet weights. 9mm and 9mm +P are all above 320.

The similar, but not compatible, 9x18 Ultra can be had in the 250 range from S&B, which is much more of a bridge between .380 and 9x19, as Walther intended when they came up with it.

Looking at the Wiki pages for both calibers, Mak is supposed to be closer to 230 and Ultra 225, so obviously it comes down to what ammo companies decide to make.

Maybe someone makes good Mak ammo that runs in the Ultra power range, maybe not. You'd have to hunt around.

 

[Gun Master]

9x18mm Makarov Ammo

What void?

Caliber-wise? Power? Manufacturer support?

Is it a cartridge in common use by American gun makers, and benefiting from design advancements being commonly seen in modern American-made defensive ammunition?

There are folks who enjoy owning and using foreign (Eastern Bloc) surplus military & police handguns. Importation of such guns and ammunition have found a decent market among private owners, it seems.

However, there are smaller & lighter weight .380's, as well as lighter and similarly small (or slightly smaller) 9's, commonly available from major manufacturers.

Buying an imported used/surplus pistol versus buying one from a major manufacturer who offers warranty support, parts, etc?

Personally, when I look to find something "between" my assorted compact/subcompact 9's and my little LCP, I look to my assortment of 5-shot J-frame snub revolvers.

I was thinking void, as in balancing sufficient defensive power and size/weight for CCW.

Hornady makes a powerful 9 x 18mm ammo called Critical Defense, which is for penetrating thick winter clothing, etc. I wondered how long the ammo might be available, but that would be pure speculation. I do not reload my own ammo.

I have a P-64 and a CZ-82, which I got before prices sky-rocketed. Thinking possibly carrying the CZ-82 in a shoulder rig, when wearing a shirt or coat over it is convenient.

I usually carry a Kel-Tec P-32 with extra 10 rd. with grip extension mag, or S&W Model 686 Bodyguard Airweight .38sp & speed loader, in my pants pockets.

Thanks for your input.

 

[ATLDave]

What mgmorden said. There's a one-page article in the current edition of American Handgunner, FWIW, about the 9x18. (It says substantially the same thing.)

 

[SC Shooter]

For a long time I Carried Bulgarian Makarov. The size and shape is great for Concealed carry, but the all steel construction makes it pretty heavy. You definately need a good belt. I have recently purchased a Walther PK380 to replace it. About the same size, but much lighter and it really carries easier. i had never owned a .380 before, so that was part of my motivation. After awhile, I may go with an XD-S in .40 caliber. We'll see

 

[Hurryin' Hoosier]

I don't guess that I was aware of a "void" between 9mm Luger and 9mm Browning (.380 ACP). I do find the 9mmX18mm Makarov round quite appealing, though, especially when fired through my Česká zbrojovka vz.82.

 

[madFive]

I've never shot Makarov, but I always thought 9x18 and .380 were the same thing. Didn't know there was a gap.

I personally carry my 9mm most of the time, and .380 with summer wear that doesn't conceal anything else. I know the limitations of both rounds and train accordingly. I don't really see any reason that I'd ever need an option between those two.

 

[hartcreek]

I carry CCW from a 32ACP to a 44 Special and BP 44s depending on my mood. I reload more then a dozen handgun calibres alone. As others have stated there is no void between 9mm Corto and 9mm Luger or P. I have Corto loads that surpass factory loads for 9mm Luger that I shoot in a Beretta or Savage.

Yes Makarovs are out there but not a void filler.

 

[Jim Watson]

The gap that the Makarov and other 9.2 mm Soviet pistols fill is economic, not ballistic.
You can get a serviceable Iron Curtain surplus gun at a low price.

 

[mgmorden]

I've never shot Makarov, but I always thought 9x18 and .380 were the same thing. Didn't know there was a gap.

.380 is 9x17 (aka 9mm Browning Short, or 9mm Kurtz)

9mm Makarov is 9x18. It also uses a wider bullet (0.355" for 9mm Luger and .380, 0.365" for 9mm Makarov).

Given that .380 is 9x17, 9mm Mak is 9x18, and 9mm Luger is 9x19, people seem to get the impression that 9mm Mak is evenly spaced in power between the two, which just isn't true. Its between the two but much closer to .380.

The case lengths really aren't what makes the difference - its that .380 and 9mm Mak were both designed to be used in straight blow-back pistol designs with lower pressures, whereas 9mm Luger is used in delayed blow-back pistols where pressures can be much higher.

 

[Onward Allusion]

I don't like 9x18 or 9x17. Pistols for those calibers are pretty much the same size as 9x19. So, it begs the question - why? The only time I'd pick a 380 is if I needed to pocket holster carry a P3AT. There isn't a 9x18 that comes close to the size of a P3AT, LCP, or Guardian 380.

Unlike the old days, prices for 9x18 are literally identical to 9x19. The selection of defensive rounds are also pretty limited with 9x18.

I go 9mm or larger or go small, but I usually skip 380 & 9mm Mak. My SD choices for semis kind of go something like this... .32ACP...9mm...357 Sig

Yes...I've owned & shot all of the calibers mentioned.

 

[M2 Carbine]

I have 17 Makarovs, so I'm a fan.

Some express belief that 9mm (and larger), are too heavy for daily carry.

I carry a Ruger LC9. Lighter and a little more powerful than the Makarov.

 

[Gun Master]

9x17,9x18, & 9x19mm Clarificlation

.380 is 9x17 (aka 9mm Browning Short, or 9mm Kurtz)

9mm Makarov is 9x18. It also uses a wider bullet (0.355" for 9mm Luger and .380, 0.365" for 9mm Makarov).

Given that .380 is 9x17, 9mm Mak is 9x18, and 9mm Luger is 9x19, people seem to get the impression that 9mm Mak is evenly spaced in power between the two, which just isn't true. Its between the two but much closer to .380.

The case lengths really aren't what makes the difference - its that .380 and 9mm Mak were both designed to be used in straight blow-back pistol designs with lower pressures, whereas 9mm Luger is used in delayed blow-back pistols where pressures can be much higher.

Well stated. That helps put the question in proper prospective. Thanks.

 

[Gun Master]

9x18mm Mak. Handguns v 9x19mm

I have 17 Makarovs, so I'm a fan.



I carry a Ruger LC9. Lighter and a little more powerful than the Makarov.

Most 9mm's(9x19 Luger) are heavier/bulkier. Ruger LC9 is a fairly recent development in the right direction. Good choice.

My P-64 has a flatter profile and is relatively small, but the grip seems large for a PPK type weapon, and not easy for me to grasp. The edges of the trigger guard are sharp and uncomfortable to shoot. That with a 6 rd. mag, usually makes it a poor choice for me as a CCW.

 

[goon]

I've owned two or three 9mm Maks and they were decent guns. Heavy for a small gun and reliable. The recoil was just a little more snappy than .380 in a Mak (which I also shot) but not at all bad.
Having said that, I don't really think the 9mm Mak round is significantly better than a .380. I think the recoil on a 9mm Mak and a S&W Shield 9mm is about the same - the Mak is a straight blow back with no locked breech to soften the recoil. Of the two, why not just carry the 9mm Luger, which is a more common round, and call it a day?

 

[Eb1]

If one is the 9x17 and another 9x19. That would make the 9x18 right in the middle.

 

[Hurryin' Hoosier]

If one is the 9x17 and another 9x19. That would make the 9x18 right in the middle.

Very true. But that's just referring to the length of the cases. Read some of the other posts.

 

[Eb1]

I like to shoot the 9x17. I shoot a bersa thunder. I have a 2007 XD9 Service that I really like. Don't much care for 9x19 out of bersa sized guns.
I'd much rather carry the .32 h&r mag or .44 spc. If I had to carry an ultra compact 9x19.

 

[rondog]

I like my PA-63. Small size, aluminum frame and 9x18 power makes it a nice pocket pistol. It's recoil is a little harsh, especially with Combloc surplus ball ammo, but I got it when they were still $130 at Sarco, which makes it even more likable!

 

[il.bill]

Yes - my 9x18mm Makarov CZ82's and my Radom P-64 nicely fill the void on the shelf in the safe right between my CZ83 chambered in .380 ACP and my assortment of 9x19mm pistols.