Can you shoot them all good?

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Fundamentals remain the same across all pistols, but in my experience, each gun will have its own nuances that you will need to work out in order to get the most out of it.
 
I focus my attention on 4 handguns. My two HD guns and my two CC guns are the ones, but my two regular rotation CC get the most attention. I spend a lot of money on ammo and as much time as I can practicing with all four guns.

I don't really believe in having more than two carry guns in my rotation. One semi and one revolver. I have an SP101 and a 642. The 642 will probably go soon.
 
I did not think about it earlier but I practice differently with my carry pistols. My aiming is mainly a aimed point shooting. Handgun is up but I am looking over it not focused on the sights. More taking in the area. With my revolvers I hunt with its more like my rifles. All tight focus and capable of some quality groups at longer ranges .
 
I have commonalities I look for in a pistol that is intended to be a self defense weapon. If a pistol is to be a range toy then I don't care what it does or doesn't have. At this point, I would feel comfortable with most typical firearms if I needed touse it for self defense.
 
hardluk1 said:
With some smaller handguns bullet setback is very real if the handgun does not really like the ammo. Kahrs handguns have very strong recoil spring that can very easily push a bullet back with a couple try's so pay attention to your loads.

If anyone thinks somecan't shoot large and small guns well better watch hickok45's videos. That guy has paws, not hands . he also will shoot some micro pistols with the middle pad of a finger and still be a fine shooter.
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Bullet setback is something that has been caused by all the newbies sitting around playing with their gun all day. Loading and unloading constantly is playing like a kid would do. On the other hand, there is a fellow on YouTube that drives some bullets as deep in the case as they will go. He puts them in his gun and puts a string on the trigger and backs away. He fires the gun and guess what happened, nothing. All the setback ammo fired as a normal bullet and didn't hurt anything and didn't even sound different. If a person is having setback they are playing with their gun too much and should not even own a handgun until they grow up. That is a great way for a ND.
 
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i totally agree with sam1911's post #2. a "master" has only three conscious thoughts: front sight, press, repeat. all other thoughts are automatic.

at the level the op is talking about, mental and physical ability come into play. not everyone can be the "micheal jordan" of handguns, no matter how much they practice. just like any other endeavor, people will reach the level of their incompetence (called the "peter principle"). but, you cannot reach that level without lots and lots of practice.

murf
 
a suggestion to the op: dry-fire a lot after switching weapons and before putting live rounds down range. that way you get the feeling back without wasting rounds. you'll know how much time to spend on dry-firing (it should be different with every weapon).

it's all about retraining the subconscious mind to that particular weapon and its particular traits. all the general shooting abilities will transfer over from the previous weapon.

murf
 
murf said:
i totally agree with sam1911's post #2. a "master" has only three conscious thoughts: front sight, press, repeat. all other thoughts are automatic.
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I disagree. A true Master of the Art of Shooting does not consciously think about such basic things. Instead, his conscious mind monitors things and immediately corrects them if needed, but there is no need for conscious thought on the basics when you're executing at that level.
 
in an idpa context i agree. the bullet goes where the eye is looking. no conscious thought required.

i normally shoot long distances with a revolver. i have to concentrate on the front sight as accuracy is most important. so, for me, front sight, press trigger (it's a timing thing for me), repeat are all conscious thoughts.

disclaimer: i do not claim to be a "master". still working on it. so, i defer to your wisdom, david e.

murf
 
David is preaching at the church of Brian Enos. :)

Or maybe he taught Brian all that awareness > concentration stuff he wrote about.
 
Actually, it's J. Michael Plaxco from his book, "Shooting From Within."

I've experienced the level of execution he's talking about and know it exists. Do not confuse not requiring conscious thought with lack of awareness. You are fully aware of what's going on.

As it applies to SD, the more ingrained the basics are, such as front sight, press, the more automatic they become, the less conscious thought is required.

You don't need to think, you simply execute the mechanics while consciously paying attention to other things outside the scope of shooting.
 
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ed mcgivern has a chapter on psychology in his book "fast and fancy revolver shooting". that's where i picked up this "zen" idea. mcgivern explains why conscious thought is too slow and for "super speed" shooting, every aspect of the shooting process has to be on a subconscious level. that and lots and lots of practice.

murf
 
As Brian Enos says, "Just let it happen."

And that is the key. Train often and well and then just let yourself go.

Deaf
 
My scores improved a LOT when I switched from 45 ACP 1911 custom pistol that wasn't terribly reliable to a BHP clone in 9mm that was. Years later after shooting that pistol a LOT I shoot my 1911's better.

I shot a LOT and I mean a LOT of 9mm in IDPA type competitions. Shooting more helps.

I don't shoot revolvers in DA near as well as I do SA revolvers.

DA/SA guns.. nope don't like them in DA mode.. only own one so I don't practice with those much. Don't own any Glocks, or Smith and Wessons of any kind.
 
Good is not the same as equal. Good for a pocket pistol or snub revolver is different than good for a 22 target pistol. Service size pistols and revolvers are easier to shoot than small guns. A person has to chose a gun that fits their life stile and they can shoot well enough to get the job done. It is not always necessary to be able to shoot 1/2" groups.

My EDC is a P 32 not as good as the 45 in the safe but is what I can have with me always. :)
 
mastery

Guys like Skeeter Skelton, Elmer Keith, Bill Jordan and Jeff Cooper were, in their day, masters.
These days guy like Jerry Miculek and Todd Jarrett are masters.
I'm sure I have left a few out.

That said, do (did) any of those guys compete with a variety of action types (in one time frame)?

So, I think we have resolved the issue of "mastery".
One man can be very competent, and even fairly accomplished with a number of different handguns.
But I trust you are familiar with the quote "Jack of all trades; master of none". There is more than a grain of truth there.

We won't even get into the fundamental lack of English skills that leads one to ask "can you shoot them all good". :rolleyes: Ooops, I just did...
 
In 2008 there was a "pickup gun" side match stage at IDPA Nationals. The provided gun was a compact 1911, if I remember correctly, probably a Wilson Combat model.

In that stage, I finished ahead of Jerry Miculek. But so did a lot of other people.

Doesn't prove anything, really, and if you watch some of his videos you'll see he's quite accomplished with rifles and shotguns as well. A rising tide (meaning intensive practice with one gun) will float all boats (meaning your skills with other guns will improve), but that doesn't mean you'll be at the very top your your game if you're intensely trying to focus on multiple handguns at once.
 
That said, do (did) any of those guys compete with a variety of action types (in one time frame)?
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As a matter of fact, both Jerry and Todd shoot multiple platforms at the world class level in the same "time frame". Do a little research and you will find several world class shooters switching guns...sometimes even during the same weekend.
 
Sam1911 said:
In 2008 there was a "pickup gun" side match stage at IDPA Nationals. The provided gun was a compact 1911, if I remember correctly, probably a Wilson Combat model.

In that stage, I finished ahead of Jerry Miculek. But so did a lot of other people.
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If people that finished ahead of Jerry think they did so because the battlefield pickup "confused" him, then they don't know Jerry very well.
 
Jerry knows his way around a 1911 very well, but I've seen more than one GM not activate the grip safety on a stock pickup gun.
 
Sam1911 said:
Actually, I say that it IS true, but neither Ankeny nor I can prove our hypotheses. :) They are fundamentally unprovable.

If you have infinite time and infinite ammo are you better off spending all of that infinite time and ammo on one gun or, since it's infinite you know, does that mean you could actually be perfectly skilled (whatever that might mean) with every firearm at the same time? It's like that question about how many licks to get to to Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop: The world will never know.

On planet Earth, and given the limitations of time and resources, one person cannot be skilled to the ultimate level he's humanly capable of attaining with multiple firearms. (Heck, no one person has ever attained the ultimate level they'd be potentially capable of with ONE gun, or any other tool.)

If you are perfectly equally skilled with multiple guns, you could be BETTER with one of them if you dedicated yourself to it instead of diluting your efforts.
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I disagree. If one Masters anything then there is nothing else to learn and thst simply is not true. There is always something new to learn. As to switching between pistol platforms I don't see a problem. A trip to the range for me means revolvers and semi-autos in multiple calibers and with a new indoor range in town I now get to train in low light and no light conditions.
 
I disagree. If one Masters anything then there is nothing else to learn and thst simply is not true. There is always something new to learn.
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That isn't, at all -- not even close -- the definition of "Mastery" that I used, or that any great Masters of an art or science or skill that I've heard of seem to use. The greatest definition of Mastery I can recall has something to do with reaching the highest level of understanding of what you need to improve (or of comprehending what you DON'T know).

As to switching between pistol platforms I don't see a problem. A trip to the range for me means revolvers and semi-autos in multiple calibers and with a new indoor range in town I now get to train in low light and no light conditions.
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We may be talking of different things here. No one's saying there's a problem, per se, with simply working on basic skills with several guns if that's what you want to do.

The question really boils down to one of operating at peak performance, and whether you'll be better if you concentrate with one gun than you could be if you try and concentrate on several types of gun at once.

Part of the answer might lie in asking if you believe there's some pinnacle of your performance where you simply COULD NOT, EVER do any better, and if so how much effort does it take to maintain that, and if there's still time in the day for other practice, does developing the somewhat conflicting skills needed for different platforms detract from that ultimate, unsurpassable, level of performance with any one of them?

At a level where most of us operate, working on general proficiency, or even competence, with our weapons, the distinction might not matter much. I still think it does, though. If you have vast amounts of room for improvement, which is better? Improving skill with one design, greatly, through concentrated effort, or improving skill with several designs, a bit, through diffused efforts?
 
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