CCW 1911, cocked and locked or no?
- Thread starter Shifty
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Zundfolge
Member
If you don't like Cocked & Locked, whatever you do don't carry with a round in the chamber and hammer down. SIGNIFICANTLY less safe than C&L (for that matter carrying with an empty chamber sounds like a good way to find yourself with a non-functional firearm when you REALLY need one).
If you absolutely cannot do C&L and you absolutely MUST have a 1911, get a Para Ordnance LDA.
If you absolutely cannot do C&L and you absolutely MUST have a 1911, get a Para Ordnance LDA.
hexidismal
Member
Having transitioned this year into carrying a full size 1911 from a DA/SA (P345), I'm perfectly comfortable with condition one carry. That's the way the gun was designed to be carried, and it may not do me much good if I should need to cock or cycle the action before firing. I actually never intended so switch to the 1911, it's just that when I tried it out I was so comfortable wearing it that it became the norm.
I consider a 1911 that is cocked-n-locked to be safer than a standard Glock would be.
Figure in order to pull the trigger on the 1911, you need to disengage the standard safety as well as depress the grip safety.
It's really going to be up to you and your comfort level.
Figure in order to pull the trigger on the 1911, you need to disengage the standard safety as well as depress the grip safety.
It's really going to be up to you and your comfort level.
fletcher
Member
Cocked & locked is the way to carry.
I understand your concern - went through the same thing before I decided to purchase one. Although the design is proven, there was just something that didn't feel "right" to me about carrying it that way. After shooting it and looking into it more, it eventually seemed just fine and I no longer have any problems with it. I think it was just a combination of "mechanical things can fail" and something new (to me) that got me.
I understand your concern - went through the same thing before I decided to purchase one. Although the design is proven, there was just something that didn't feel "right" to me about carrying it that way. After shooting it and looking into it more, it eventually seemed just fine and I no longer have any problems with it. I think it was just a combination of "mechanical things can fail" and something new (to me) that got me.
tbreed725
Member
cocked locked and ready to rock at all times
seeker_two
Member
I agree with D-Man....a C&L 1911 is a lot safer to carry than your run-of-the-mill Glock in Condition 0.5... 
That said...I prefer Condition 2 carry for all my single-action autos. It is safe, easy to bring to action, and proprietary to the user if snatched (like the S&W mag safety). It takes practice...but anyone owning a firearm should be practicing anyway...
BTW, JMB did NOT design the 1911 for C&L carry all the time...just until the horse stopped and you could dismount and decock. The 1911 (just like JMB's large autos preceeding it in the military trials) was designed to be carried just like the SAA's & DA revolvers the Army Cavalry (the elite force who had the major vote on armament at the time) were used to...hammer down on a loaded chamber. When drawn, the rider thumbcocked the pistol just like a SAA, aimed, and fired one-handed while the other held the reins. The grip safety and thumb safety was there when a rider had to reholster a cocked, loaded pistol (decocking on horseback was a scary proposition).
Nomex suit zipped...sunscreen applied....sunglasses ready...FLAME AWAY!!!
That said...I prefer Condition 2 carry for all my single-action autos. It is safe, easy to bring to action, and proprietary to the user if snatched (like the S&W mag safety). It takes practice...but anyone owning a firearm should be practicing anyway...
BTW, JMB did NOT design the 1911 for C&L carry all the time...just until the horse stopped and you could dismount and decock. The 1911 (just like JMB's large autos preceeding it in the military trials) was designed to be carried just like the SAA's & DA revolvers the Army Cavalry (the elite force who had the major vote on armament at the time) were used to...hammer down on a loaded chamber. When drawn, the rider thumbcocked the pistol just like a SAA, aimed, and fired one-handed while the other held the reins. The grip safety and thumb safety was there when a rider had to reholster a cocked, loaded pistol (decocking on horseback was a scary proposition).
Nomex suit zipped...sunscreen applied....sunglasses ready...FLAME AWAY!!!
Charles S
Member
There is lots of good advice in this thread.
Just to try to consolidate it. If you are uncomfortable with cocked and locked there are a lot of other really good platforms.
If you plan on carrying cocked and locked (as pointed out no different than carrying a loaded pump, semi-auto, or bolt action rifle), then get familiar with it. Carry it unloaded and get used to it. A basic handgun class in which you fire a lot of rounds over a weekend or a week will go a long way to making you very comfortable with your chosen platform. In a concise statement - training.
Good luck.
Just to try to consolidate it. If you are uncomfortable with cocked and locked there are a lot of other really good platforms.
If you plan on carrying cocked and locked (as pointed out no different than carrying a loaded pump, semi-auto, or bolt action rifle), then get familiar with it. Carry it unloaded and get used to it. A basic handgun class in which you fire a lot of rounds over a weekend or a week will go a long way to making you very comfortable with your chosen platform. In a concise statement - training.
Good luck.
johndoe1027
Member
Cocked and locked just like it was designed. There's more safeties on a 1911 than any Glock or knockoff. It's safer C&L than any new polymer with only a trigger safety.<--- Big huge period
peacemaker45
Member
To quote:
Kid on noticing C&L: "Officer, your pistol is cocked! Isn't that dangerous?"
Officer: "You d@mn betcha!"
~~~Mat
Kid on noticing C&L: "Officer, your pistol is cocked! Isn't that dangerous?"
Officer: "You d@mn betcha!"
~~~Mat
I carry my Glock pistols and my Colt pistols in the identical way...chamber loaded, magazine topped-off to assure chamber is loaded, and cocked and ready to fire.
Glock...safety releases when I depress trigger.
Colt.....safety releases when I depress the grip safety.
They are co-equally safe. I do not worry at all about accidents. Browning did not want a manual safety on the 1911. He put it only at the military's insistence. I agree with Browning. Give me a model 1910.
Doc2005
Glock...safety releases when I depress trigger.
Colt.....safety releases when I depress the grip safety.
They are co-equally safe. I do not worry at all about accidents. Browning did not want a manual safety on the 1911. He put it only at the military's insistence. I agree with Browning. Give me a model 1910.
Doc2005
I was nervous about C&L at first. Went and bought the SFS, loaded chamber, push hammer down thumb safety engages. Cool, until I was carring it one time and the safety rent off. Not a happy camper! Removed the SFS and put it right. I carried it around for awhile empty to make sure. The thumb safety has the detent on it and losks it on. Now carry C&L put in the vault in the car, take it out, no concerns at all. Just have to get past the concern
p85
Member
C&L
I carry my .45 cocked and locked. My Ruger P-85 of course doesn't allow that option. You have to live with the long first double action pull with that one. My EAA Witness however while being DA/SA, allows me to carry it cocked and locked as the safety is not a de-cocker. I prefer to carry it that way. Best to be prepared.
I carry my .45 cocked and locked. My Ruger P-85 of course doesn't allow that option. You have to live with the long first double action pull with that one. My EAA Witness however while being DA/SA, allows me to carry it cocked and locked as the safety is not a de-cocker. I prefer to carry it that way. Best to be prepared.
ccmdfd
Member
Interesting idea. You're the first I've seen on a forum who carries a 1911 like this.
cc
Geronimo45
Member
If your holster's covering the trigger, you don't have to worry. The 1911 grip safety has to be depressed anyhow for the trigger to set off a round.
The safety can come off while carrying the gun. It's happened to folks here before. Not to worry, though - like most guns, the 1911 won't fire until the trigger is pulled.
The cocked hammer looks scary, no doubt about it. That's what movie heroes and BGs always do in a tense moment... I've even heard them cocking the hammer on their Glock - despite the Glock not having a hammer.
The safety can come off while carrying the gun. It's happened to folks here before. Not to worry, though - like most guns, the 1911 won't fire until the trigger is pulled.
The cocked hammer looks scary, no doubt about it. That's what movie heroes and BGs always do in a tense moment... I've even heard them cocking the hammer on their Glock - despite the Glock not having a hammer.
Mad Magyar
Member
I can, no problemo from the cross-draw...One fluid motion if you have the athletism, "training", correct holster, and the confidence in a stressful situation...Think about it for a moment...Your off-hand is already there anticipating the withdrawal w/o using a fine motor skill fumbling around for the safety during an anxious moment....
Presenting from the strong-side doesn't do it for me....
MICHAEL T
Member
I don't want you to get hurt. So sell me that terrible 1911 and go buy a Glock. Their so much safer.
shooter1
Member
I'll leave the draw and rack to the Israeli commandos. I see no need to make a two handed operation out of a single. Besides, my off hand might be busy doing something important, like fighting for my life while I draw. C&L carry soves all the problems, both real and imagined.
str1
str1
Well, you also never see any "professionals" carrying 1911s, cue the DEA agent video....
Seriously, if you are stupid enough to put your finger on the trigger while handling the weapon, you stand a high risk of shooting yourself with any SA or striker fired pistol. If you follow the safety rules, all are safe enough.
The good news is you can actually USE a 1911 safety, it being placed in a position that actually allows you to swipe it off while drawing. Can't say the same for the slide mounted flip up variety of safeties.
Vern Humphrey
Member
I recommend against retention straps between hammer and firing pin. There are too many such designs where the snap rubs against the safety and can disengate it with body movement.
The M1911 was designed for the Cavalry -- and a Cavalryman needs a pistol he can operate with one hand. Imagine you have just charged through an enemy position, your horse is hurt, excited and bucking, and you have a cocked and loaded pistol in your hand. What do you do?
Put the pistol on safety, put it in the holster and use both hands to calm the horse.
Interestingly enough, I have had a guy lecture me on carrying an M1911 with a Colt Service Ace convesion kit in cocked-and-locked mode. Then I pointed out to him that he was carrying his Ruger .22 Automatic in cocked-and-locked mode.
He said, "That's different. My gun doesn't have an exposed hammer!"
Quiet
Member
I carried concealed a Colt Mustang cocked & locked for years.
If you are not comfortable with carrying a pistol cocked & locked, perhaps you should be looking at other pistol designs.
If you are not comfortable with carrying a pistol cocked & locked, perhaps you should be looking at other pistol designs.
johndoe1027
Member
I had a 1911 that was too big for me to carry and I wanted something "safer". I got a M&P (I will not be trashing it here, just an example, first hand, the good kind). After I made sure it went bang every single time, I tried holstering it with no ammo in it. I was trying to see if it would be comfortable IWB about 1:00 which is my favorite position but nothing bigger than a snubbie is comfortable there to me. Well, as I was about to point it you know where I started to think "Hey wait a minute, what if the trigger drags on the holster or something?" 
So I carry it a 3:00 now.
Point being a gun with 2 count em 2 external safeties will always be safer than a gun with one. IMVHO. At least you have to have some soft of firing grip on the 1911 before it will go bang even if the thumb safety is off. Once I get my new 1911 CCW (that's right I said it, going from a polymer "smart gun" to an outdated antiquated pre WWI design) I plan on putting a thumb safety on it that is very very positive. That is to say that it won't just fall in to bang mode. I will feel much more safe with it than I do with any gun that has no external manual safeties.
BTW, the only reason I'm leaving the M&P at the house is that they don't make a M&P single stack short barrel 45 with 2 externaled safeties.
I'll have to get a shirt that matches my grips once I get mine for sure.
So I carry it a 3:00 now. Point being a gun with 2 count em 2 external safeties will always be safer than a gun with one. IMVHO. At least you have to have some soft of firing grip on the 1911 before it will go bang even if the thumb safety is off. Once I get my new 1911 CCW (that's right I said it, going from a polymer "smart gun" to an outdated antiquated pre WWI design) I plan on putting a thumb safety on it that is very very positive. That is to say that it won't just fall in to bang mode. I will feel much more safe with it than I do with any gun that has no external manual safeties.
BTW, the only reason I'm leaving the M&P at the house is that they don't make a M&P single stack short barrel 45 with 2 externaled safeties.
I'll have to get a shirt that matches my grips once I get mine for sure.
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