CCW 1911, cocked and locked or no?

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1911, cocked and locked. Period.

If I thought that it wasn't safe, I'd be carrying something else. because that would mean that I simply didn't understand the 1911.

For me, a 1911, cocked and locked, is the safest auto to carry other than an SA/DA with a manual safety, but I won't carry a self defense weapon with a manual safety on.

1911, cocked and locked. Period.
 
Cocked and Locked? Yes!

I know where he is coming from. There were times I felt that with my Kimber Ultra CDP. No reason for it, as was said, it is very safe. But during those times, I would carry the H&K USPC. I've gotten to trust the 1911 over the years more than any plarform. This will pass if you let it.
 
I carry mine loaded but the hammer foward. I believe that I can get the hammer back really fast if I had too
 
ahh thanks for the clarification, I did not know that was what it was called. I learn something new each day I am on this site
 
msimonds , you're better off carrying condition 1 or 3. Condition 2 is very dangerous. I wouldn't do it if I were you.
 
Though I don't have my 1911 yet, I don't have any issues carrying it in Condition 1. Actually, I haven't yet decided whether I'd carry in Condition 1 or Condition 0 (mag loaded, chamber loaded, hammer cocked, safety off). I may well go with Cond 0, as I'm used to revolvers that don't have external safeties of any kind ... just the one between my ears, which is the most important anyway.

I was reading on Sight M1911 I believe where it said that most 1911 NDs happen with Condition 2 when trying to lower the hammer and it slips.
 
I was reading on Sight M1911 I believe where it said that most 1911 NDs happen with Condition 2 when trying to lower the hammer and it slips.
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More than one man has had an ND that way.

But in my experience, most NDs occur when clearing the pistol. The proper sequence is:

1. Drop the magazine.
2. Rack the slide
3. Drop the hammer.

Now an intelligent man would lock the slide back on step 2, and visually inspect the chamber. But some people aren't all that alert, and get the steps out of order -- racking the slide before dropping the magazine.

I know of one ND that occurred during the Calley Court Martial. There was an MP car with two MPs parked outside the courtroom at all times. They got bored. So one brilliant MP was showing the other Einstien how the disconnector works -- you can hit the muzzle of an M1911 while pulling the trigger, and it won't fire. If you have perfect timing.
 
I carry mine loaded but the hammer foward. I believe that I can get the hammer back really fast if I had too
Of course that would require a couple of grip changes durring the draw and presentation. It would sure give your adversary more than a sporting chance tho. If you are using the "Thumbs Forward" grip, the strong hand thumb automaticly sweeps the safety on the draw with no concious effort. There is no faster way to get a 1911 into action.
str1
 
why is condition 2 so dangerous?

Not trying to be a smart a$$, Just wondering
 
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Condition 1 here. My fear is more about me than the gun. I used to leave it in Condition 1 when I was around the house or carrying and then go to condition 4 when I knew I would not be around and leving the 1911 at home (kids in house and not allowed to carry at work). The taking in and out of condition 1 made me nervous (again because of me not the 1911) so I bought something in which to lock it when I'm away without it. Now it stays in condition 1 and only moves from a locked to an unlocked case depending on my whereabouts and its.
 
why is condition 2 so dangerous?

Not trying to be a smart a$$, Just wondering
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Since the 1911 doesn't have a dedicated decocker, it requires you to pull the trigger in order to drop the hammer. If you slip, and the hammer falls, then the gun will go off.

cc
 
As an oldtimer I was raised on firearms with external hammers. I have cocked and lowered hammers safely for more years than I care to admit. That was long before the engineers decided we could not be trusted to safely perform that complicated task. Enter the decocker! I'm surprised someone hasn't designed a decocker for revolvers. The concerns I have with condition 2 is all the grip changes and extra steps to make the gun ready to fire on the draw and presentation. If you ever have to draw in a clutch, all that manupulation could get you killed. I just can't understand why anyone would want to add a handicap factor to the equation. In a real gunfight you have the rest of your life to draw and make the hit. Make it as slow and complicated as you please. That said, I think everyone should carry in a manner that suits them.
str1
 
why is condition 2 so dangerous?
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one, for the reasons listed above, easy to slip off of a strong hammer, easy to slip while trying to cock the hammer under pressure. I think it would be way easier to rack the slide while drawing but that's just me.

two, thumbing the hammer down causes unneccesary wear on the internals. I'm no gunsmith but I've heard enough say "Please son't ease the hammer down, just dry fire it." That's what it is designed to do.

As to Condition 0, I'm not sure what's so hard about the thumb safety but a comparison to a DA revolver is a stretch. A DA revolver (just guessing here) has a .5" pull at 10 lbs (at least, I bet mine has larger numbers). A 1911 has a .25" pull (at most, and that's counting the takeup) at 5 lbs. The 5 lbs only happens for .01" or something very minute. Quick math shows you are at least twice as likely to have a ND with a 1911 in Condition 0. Then again, it's your gun, walls, legs, dashboard, etc. I could measure both if everyone really needs to know. Just squeeze a stock 1911 trigger then grab a DAO revolver that has not been modified. Insane difference. With the revo you have plenty of time to realize the trigger is being squeezed, with the 1911 it will be too late before you realize it.

Many like the 1910 and 1911 (non A1) setup but I feel much safer with a thumb safety. To each his own. Just be safe.
 
With the way everyone is talking about the dangers of decocking, I'm surprised anyone at all survived the era of the SAA's and DA revolvers... :rolleyes:

Decocking a 1911 is no different than decocking a revolver. POINT THE MUZZLE IN A SAFE, NON-HUMAN-OCCUPIED DIRECTION. Hold the hammer spur tighly between your thumb and fingers. Press the trigger until you feel the "click" of the hammer releasing. RELEASE THE TRIGGER. Lower the hammer to the half-cock notch (if your 1911 has one). Repeat the following steps until the hammer is fully at rest. Just like a revolver.

...thumbing the hammer down causes unneccesary wear on the internals. I'm no gunsmith but I've heard enough say "Please son't ease the hammer down, just dry fire it." That's what it is designed to do.
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How is gently moving these parts more damaging than slamming the hammer into the firing pin to push it beyond its natural point of stop (against a primer), thereby punishing the firing pin spring while not providing a cushion for the firing pin? It's just as bad as letting the slide fly forward without stripping a round off the magazine or single-loading a round in the chamber. If it's bad for a CZ-52, it's probably not so good for a 1911.... :uhoh:

How else can you get a shot off in under 2 sec?
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The last time I timed it, my slowest Condition 2 draw & fire was 0.9 seconds.... :D

I carry mine loaded but the hammer foward. I believe that I can get the hammer back really fast if I had too
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After much practice, I KNOW I can..... :cool:
 
The last time I timed it, my slowest Condition 2 draw & fire was 0.9 seconds....
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So you can exceed ASAA Combat Master Handgun Qualification from condition 2?????

I would have to see it to believe it! I have shot with some of the fastest in the world, including Mr. Miculeck, Mr. Clark etc. I know what fast is, but for me to believe someone can draw from a holster with a 1911 cock the hammer and make a shot under a second...again exceeding Combat Master Handgun Qualification....I would have to see it.
 
Decocking a 1911 is no different than decocking a revolver. POINT THE MUZZLE IN A SAFE, NON-HUMAN-OCCUPIED DIRECTION. Hold the hammer spur tighly between your thumb and fingers. Press the trigger until you feel the "click" of the hammer releasing. RELEASE THE TRIGGER.
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Not quite -- an M1911 has a grip safety, which also must be manipulated. Decocking an M1911 is much more complicated than decocking an SAA - which can be done with one hand.
Lower the hammer to the half-cock notch (if your 1911 has one). Repeat the following steps until the hammer is fully at rest. Just like a revolver.
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I'm not sure what you mean -- you aren't advising us to use the half-cock, are you?
 
i am nervous walking around with a ready to fire 1911.
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It's not ready to fire if it's cocked and locked.

Shifty, if you are that nervous about, consider getting a DA firearm.
 
The last time I timed it, my slowest Condition 2 draw & fire was 0.9 seconds....
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WHat was your fastest then? a few microseconds?

Maybe you got one of them fancy thought-controlled 1911's...

And what's a Safe direction inside your house? The easiest thing to patch?

Decocking a chambered 1911 is just stupid. FOr that matter, is a hammer-down 1911 drop-safe if the hammer gets hit?
 
Getting to Condition 2 is dependent on the 1911 variation. Government specs, especially wide hammer, versus a beavertail safety and commander hammer.

When I answered, I had a govt model in mind as that's what I carry. Getting to condition 2 is not hard or unsafe for me and this gun. I wouldn't try it with a modified gun, but that's just me.

Lowering the hammer slowly without fully depressing the trigger may cause the half cock notch on the hammer to smack the sear and ruin the trigger job. I'd like to know if a hammer can be pulled back to just before the half cock notch and released to make the gun fire, or if it doesn't pick up enough speed to fire.
 
Lowering the hammer slowly without fully depressing the trigger may cause the half cock notch on the hammer to smack the sear and ruin the trigger job.
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Which is why the owner's manual with my Kimber says never to manually de-cock, always drop the hammer by pulling the trigger.

I'd like to know if a hammer can be pulled back to just before the half cock notch and released to make the gun fire, or if it doesn't pick up enough speed to fire.
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I know that a blow on the hammer with the gun half-cocked can fire it. A friend of mine was convinced the half-cock is a safety. He slung his M16 a bit briskly, the butt hit the hammer of his holstered .45 and shot the heel off his boot.
 
40+ years of cocked-and-locked.

Even when i worked for agencies that required DA revolvers on duty, I carried a .45 Colt automatic off duty. Before I ever got a .45, I was carrying a Colt .22 Challenger cocked and locked in the field. Of course, the hammer on the .22 was enclosed. I was in my thirties before I knew the term "condition one." :p

Since I retired, I often only carry a lightweight .38 in my pocket. There's still a condition one .45 in my vehicle.

Best,
Johnny
 
Hey guys, I think cocked and locked is the way to carry, so don't flame me too much for the following historical stuff:

JMB designed this firearm to be carried C&L.
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This is highly unlikely, considering that his original design didn't have a thumb safety. The thumb safety was added after the Army requested it. Then the Army subsequently didn't advocate cocked and locked carry either.

The M1911 was designed for the Cavalry -- and a Cavalryman needs a pistol he can operate with one hand. Imagine you have just charged through an enemy position, your horse is hurt, excited and bucking, and you have a cocked and loaded pistol in your hand. What do you do?
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Browning anticipated this problem, and in his original design went to pains to make it easy to manually lower the hammer to the safety notch using only one hand!

The advantages of cocked and locked carry were figured out by users after adoption of the M1911.

Also, just for grins, were you aware that Browning's original design had a magazine safety?
 
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