ReadyontheRight
Member
Whenever I see this debate, I wonder what the Founding Fathers would have to say about it. (Word is that many of them tipped back quite a few).
CHL and Drinking
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ralphie98
Member
This board seems to be all over the place on this one. Lets keep in mind that having a Miller Lite with your Cheeseburger is not the same as binge drinking. We all know that getting drunk and playing with your guns is a good way to get dead. Those who preach zero tolerance for alcohol while carrying seem to be a little over the top for me.
I go out to dinner every friday night and about half of those outings I enjoy a beer with my meal (while carrying!
). In MN the limit for carrying is .04 and I'm pretty sure that having a beer is not putting me in violation of that. I've never felt uncomfortable with driving in this situation, and I don't feel uncomfortable with having a glock on my hip.
To the original poster... it seems like your legal question was answered and you're OK to have that beer with dinner. In the end, as long as we are doing everything legally, it comes down to personal choices and preferences.
I go out to dinner every friday night and about half of those outings I enjoy a beer with my meal (while carrying!
). In MN the limit for carrying is .04 and I'm pretty sure that having a beer is not putting me in violation of that. I've never felt uncomfortable with driving in this situation, and I don't feel uncomfortable with having a glock on my hip. To the original poster... it seems like your legal question was answered and you're OK to have that beer with dinner. In the end, as long as we are doing everything legally, it comes down to personal choices and preferences.
Zen21Tao
Member
Also keep in mind that in most states (even here in Florida) you cannot carry into a place whose primary business derives from alcohol sales. As such when you go to your local sports bar and your "stapped" don't sit at the bar use a table.
Taurus 66
Member
You mean I have to go all the way back to page 1 and read the topic starter?? :banghead:
RealGun
Member
I would think there should be some lesson learned from how much attention Cheney's "one beer at lunch" received. The motivation is to fry your ass, not buy into some reasonable argument why alcohol is not a factor.
JMusic
member
My cuttoff is two drinks also when driving. The .08 thing tightened the strings so to speak. Actually the more I drink the happier I become. Yahoo mother@#$#$ bang bang bang!!!
HankB
Member
Note that if you're not driving a motor vehicle, there is no legal requirement that you submit to a BAC test or take a field sobriety test.
If involved in defensive handgun use, there is no requirement that you tell responding authorities what you ate or drank just before - in fact, beyond identifying yourself, there's no requirement you say anything.
I personally don't see any problem with having a beer or two with dinner while carrying . . . I do see a problem if that beer or two becomes five, six, or more drinks, or if you're feeling a "buzz" or starting to feel "happy" . . . in which case not only should you not be carrying a gun, you shouldn't be driving a car, either.
Note that in TX one may not legally carry in an establishment that derives 51% of its sales in alcohol for on premesis consumption, so regular bars are off-limits anyway. Most restaurants that happen to serve alcohol are OK, but if the only food they serve is nachos and a bowl of peanuts, watch out.
If involved in defensive handgun use, there is no requirement that you tell responding authorities what you ate or drank just before - in fact, beyond identifying yourself, there's no requirement you say anything.
I personally don't see any problem with having a beer or two with dinner while carrying . . . I do see a problem if that beer or two becomes five, six, or more drinks, or if you're feeling a "buzz" or starting to feel "happy" . . . in which case not only should you not be carrying a gun, you shouldn't be driving a car, either.
Note that in TX one may not legally carry in an establishment that derives 51% of its sales in alcohol for on premesis consumption, so regular bars are off-limits anyway. Most restaurants that happen to serve alcohol are OK, but if the only food they serve is nachos and a bowl of peanuts, watch out.
You wouldn't have to go that far back - many Bullseye pistol shooters of the '50s and '60s used to routinely have a shot of whiskey right before a match, believing it helped to steady the eye and calm the nerves.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Texas CHL laws do define intoxicated for 46.035 - it says it uses the definition in Subchapter H Sec. 411. GC Sec.411.172:
TexasSIGman has already posted the relevant statute for 49.01. The important thing to note is you can be arrested for violating EITHER subsection A or B. You don't have to violate both. So even if your BAC is comfortably below 0.08, you can still be arrested and possibly convicted if the officer feels he can make a case for subsection A.
If you want to look at some of the case law for subsection A, it is a pretty low standard. It is definitely low enough that you don't want to run into a cop or DA who shares the opinion that alcohol and guns do not mix at all.
GhostRider66
Member
Also, here in Texas, if you are involved in an accident and you have had any measureable amount of alchohol, you lose defensability. I have friend who just got done spending three years in prison because he was rear-ended and was significantly under the legal limit. The other person was injured and he was charged and convicted with Intoxication Injury with a Vehicle. Even worse if someone is killed. Second degree felony 2-20 years. Even if you were not at fault otherwise but hand anything to drink, your life is over. The same might hold true were you to use your handgun after having had a drink.
Vern Humphrey
Member
Which is why I don't drink outside my own home, and limit myself to a glass of wine before dinner.
Not sleeping leaves your faculties even more impaired -- I was involved in Army studies on the effects of sleep depriviation.
So I sleep in a safe place, with precautions that allow me to be warned before the threat appears.
I carry in church.
I make love in the place where I sleep.
You seem to think there are only two speeds -- full stop and full go. In fact, there are a broad range of choices. Some risks are unavoidable, others are more easily managed. Using alcohol or drugs while driving or carrying is a risk no one needs to take.
HKUSP45C
Member
Can anyone point me to this statute? This seems horribly wrong minded for this state.
Interesting. I would think that people who have taken the responsibility to obtain training and licenses to protect themselves would not want their situational awareness diminished in any possible way. Same goes for decision making ability, reaction time, etc.
If you would not drink one beer at the range, I believe the same rules should apply at all times when handling/carrying a weapon. Just my $0.02.
If you would not drink one beer at the range, I believe the same rules should apply at all times when handling/carrying a weapon. Just my $0.02.
PATH
Member
I gotta go with Vern's take on this issue. What he says is pretty darn logical.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Again, before a jury in a civil trial you are going to be able to make a better argument when your doctor testifies to the need for the medication and your ability to deal with it, rather than a voluntary disabling of your faculties with no chance of playing down it's impact.
And for all the talk about "I'll shoot then worry", when they are taking everything you own you'll certainly be worried. You should consider the financial as well as physical safety impact of all these things.
If you have to use a firearm to defend yourself you have to be able to become practically "Christ like" in your perfection of attitude, judgement, ability, and coherence to survive a resulting civil lawsuit.
The question is, can you present that kind of perfection and innocence to a jury when you admit you've been out drinking before you used that firearm.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
If you kill someone in self defense, it's gonna be pretty hard to keep it a secret, they are going to go over your actions with a fine tooth comb.
So you shot someone in self defense after drinking alcohol and you came out of the civil suit OK?
Being in a bar fight and not getting sued is not the same thing. The deadly force aspect will kill you in front of a jury.
Is it worth losing all of your assets? If so, knock yourself out.
Personally I believe I can be fine after a beer or 2, but I don't trust some jury to believe the same thing.
I'm not saying that it's possible a good number of us would be fine, I'm just saying that in front of that jury you better be a walking poster of perfection itself.
Actually, I don't get drunk in public. Both incidents occured on my own property and my HO's insurance covered my legal fees. In truth, I was prepared long beforehand by reading "in The Gravest Extreme" by Mas Ayoob.
Incidentally, only one involved a firearm and nobody died.
Biker
Incidentally, only one involved a firearm and nobody died.
Biker
I mix booze and guns every Friday....
night. I get home from work, shake up a batch of martinis, grab a plate of munchies, and go into the gun room and relax, surrounded by my "babies".........I do not drink when I am carrying. That practice has saved me enough "bar" money to buy several guns. If I know I will have a drink or two, I leave my guns at home. Very rarely do I go out to drink. Quit drinking? Never........I enjoy my few drinks on the weekend too much.......I do not drink on work days........chris3
night. I get home from work, shake up a batch of martinis, grab a plate of munchies, and go into the gun room and relax, surrounded by my "babies".........I do not drink when I am carrying. That practice has saved me enough "bar" money to buy several guns. If I know I will have a drink or two, I leave my guns at home. Very rarely do I go out to drink. Quit drinking? Never........I enjoy my few drinks on the weekend too much.......I do not drink on work days........chris3
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GOVERNMENT CODE
SUBTITLE B. LAW ENFORCEMENT AND PUBLIC PROTECTION
CHAPTER 411. DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY OF THE STATE OF TEXAS
...
SUBCHAPTER H. LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN
§ 411.171. DEFINITIONS.
In this subchapter:
...
(6) "Intoxicated" has the meaning assigned by Section 49.01, Penal Code.
...
Sorry, this definition of "intoxicated" doesn't apply to TX PC § 46.035 either, but it's a great example of what is missing from that section. I still maintain the legislature screwed up.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
wdlsguy said:
Please take a look at PC Sec. 46.035(d):
Pretty much 99% of the judges in 99% of the courts are going to look at that statutory language and use the definition of intoxicated in 49.01 - and the ones that don't are going to be overturned later.
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