Coming home to an intruder...

[Texasgrillchef]

A lot of "what-ifs" here.

The question was "How do you handle coming home to the prospect of an intruder being inside your home, when you get there ?"

The question was NOT "how do you determine whether there is an intruder in the house", "how do you deal with an intruder in your house after you've entered", or any number of other circumstances.

If you come home and there is the PROSPECT of an intruder being inside your home when you get there, then you ACT like there's an intruder in your home.

For whatever reason, you have a strong suspicion that there is an intruder in the house. MIGHT be a cat. MIGHT be something spontaneously fell off a shelf. MIGHT be a broken window because the neighbor kid threw a baseball through it, MIGHT be ANYTHING ELSE.

BUT...for whatever reason, YOU SUSPECT YOU HAVE AN INTRUDER IN THE HOUSE.

That is the bottom line.

So the answers here should revolve around THAT. Not all the other hypothetical scenarios you could turn this question into.

******

There are a variety of concerns here that come to my mind.

1. What LEGAL justification do I have to deliberately place myself into harms way by entering my house BELIEVING there is an intruder in the house? An important question, because deliberately placing oneself in mortal danger is NOT NECESSARILY A VALID JUSTIFICATION TO USE DEADLY FORCE. If you have no other reason to enter the house (like family in danger as an example), then you may find yourself on the wrong side of a deadly force court battle.

2. Do you REALLY understand your jurisdictional laws with respect to deadly force, Castle Laws, etc?

3. What benefit is there to entering a house I believe to be occupied by an intruder? A short list of pros and cons can be made, all balanced against "it's just material property, is it worth my life, or my future well-being after a court battle?"

4. Is my response BRAVADO based on my emotional investment, or is it LOGICAL based on a realistic evaluation of the risks (immediate and future)?

******

I submit that if your entry into a suspected intruder occupied home is based on digging up ways to justify entry instead of digging up ways to stay safe and get help, you're navigating into the shoals.

Awesome comment.

All valid points that you make.

Personally I beleive if you KNOW or even SUSPECT an intruder is your home. You immediately dial 911. It doesnt matter what the reaponse time is. You still dial it and get them on the way.

As far as justification to wnter to protect your home? As you said you need to habe a good understanding of the laws for the state you live in. Sadly in some states they require you to let the theif walk off with 500 year old 1 million dollar family heirloom even if it its obvious it wont ever be recovered! However in other states, if the theif is carrying a gun in their hands at the same time. Even if your not in your home you could use deadly force to stop them.

It is absolutely essential that if you wish to take any action other then dialing 911, that you understand the laws of the state and area you live in, and be prepared for whatever consequences that result from whatever actions you do take beyond simply dialing 911.

All of that is all part of whats known as risk assesment.

However what we all need to understand as well with risk assesment is that what i am willing to risk may or maynot be something you are willing to risk. Maybe your willing to risk more, maybe your not. it differs depending on each person, our morals and our homes as well.

Exactly why some people dont have locks on the doors to their homes and other people have 10 locks on their steel reinforced bullet proof doors!

 

[Kleanbore]

Even if your not in your home you could use deadly force to stop them.

In Texas, under some circumstances, yes.

But anyone in his right mind who elects to do so will immediately obtain legal representation, and start running up astronomical bills.

And the probability of spending a good long time in a cage will be greater than zero.

However what we all need to understand as well with risk assesment is that what i am willing to risk may or may not be something you are willing to risk. Maybe your willing to risk more, maybe your not. it differs depending on each person, our morals and our homes as well.

What we also need to keep in mind is the potential reward. Few people own enough in the way of tangible movable property to justify armed intervention, even if they do not end up getting shot themselves.

The probability of that happening is much greater than zero, even if one is carrying three guns openly.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

In Texas, under some circumstances, yes.

But anyone in his right mind who elects to do so will immediately obtain legal representation, and start running up astronomical bills.

And the probability of spending a good long time in a cage will be greater than zero.

What we also need to keep in mind is the potential reward. Few people own enough in the way of tangible movable property to justify armed intervention, even if they do not end up getting shot themselves.

The probability of that happening is much greater than zero, even if one is carrying three guns openly.

I couldnt agree more! Like i said, when i came home and found an intruder inside i didnt go in, i was carrying, concealed at the time even, and i called the cops. I would NEVER enter any property i own if even suspected someone was still there. Luckily they responded quickily though.

What would i have done if I saw them come out before the cops showed up. I honestly cant say. It was only two of them, both kids (19yo).
During daylight hours. So who knows.

Other then certain family heirlooms I could carelss if anything get stolen or not. why i have insuance, replace it with a new one! Especially if its my TV! someone come steal my old one! i need a new one! lol. However the family heirlooms most of them most theivs would not recognize as being valuable and would have no idea where to take it to get the real value out of it. They arent pieces the common thief would recognize.

But wven for my properties out in bfe with no cell phone coverage. I would disable thier car. Call the police on the sat phone i carry when im there and hide!

However i seriously doubt a common thief would even go out there to steal anything.
Any intruders out there would be there for other reasons beyond common buglary.

 

[Kleanbore]

I would disable thier car.

Why?

Even if they do not shoot you, they will likely be out before you are out of bed the next day.

 

[scaatylobo]

In Avoidance as a Strategy, I must apologize for straying off topic, somewhat.

Let's look at the home base in another light, for a second. How do you handle coming home
to the prospect of an intruder being inside your home, when you get there ?

Dogs are great, but not a perfect solution, for everyone.

First of all ,the way my single ranch is constructed.

About the only way in [ unless using a breach charge on a wall ] is front or back door.

I use the side door and drive by the front prior to going down the alley to the garage & side door.

So the front door is secure and I see a breach in the side door,ALL TOO EASY for me to cover that door from a SOLID position and call & wait for the PoPo.

I would guess that my CAMERA [ with alarm to my cell ] and my ALARM SYSTEM would give me a heads up prior to my arrival.

So I hope that answers your question as to how I would handle it.

And having been an LEO in the very small city that I reside in [ close to the township & really rural ] I have a strong expectation of a VERY rapid response

Also of note,that if a civilian calls in a "robbery" it is generally a burglary and that is a well known fact among LEO's.

If a retiree or active duty LEO calls in a crime = it is a pretty good hunch that he/she called in the correct issue.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

First of all ,the way my single ranch is constructed.

About the only way in [ unless using a breach charge on a wall ] is front or back door.

I use the side door and drive by the front prior to going down the alley to the garage & side door.

So the front door is secure and I see a breach in the side door,ALL TOO EASY for me to cover that door from a SOLID position and call & wait for the PoPo.

I would guess that my CAMERA [ with alarm to my cell ] and my ALARM SYSTEM would give me a heads up prior to my arrival.

So I hope that answers your question as to how I would handle it.

And having been an LEO in the very small city that I reside in [ close to the township & really rural ] I have a strong expectation of a VERY rapid response

Also of note,that if a civilian calls in a "robbery" it is generally a burglary and that is a well known fact among LEO's.

If a retiree or active duty LEO calls in a crime = it is a pretty good hunch that he/she called in the correct issue.

Rhats whats always confused me about robbery burgalary. In both cases your getting stuff stolen. To a layman, we dont care HOW they are atealing our stuff. Their stealing it!
We expect the police to stop it or find them and get our stuff back.

Sadly many of know that isnt always possible no matter how much effort the police put into catching the criminal.

So best way to avoid it is to make it more didficult for a theif to break in. Alarms, secure doors, big sticky cactus under the windows. Well lighted, cameras, dogs, etc....

 

[JERRY]

if you come home and think a criminal has entered your home, leave right the hell now and dial 911. let the cops do their job. no other action from you except that. 'nuff said.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

Why?

Even if they do not shoot you, they will likely be out before you are out of bed the next day.

I was assuming i was coming home and finding the intruders in my home while i was gone. in which case i could disable their car while their inside. With the way the house is to where a car has to be parked, they wouldnt know till they got back to the car.

Now if i was at home and they were intruding that would be a different story. Check Texas law on castle doctrine and that would tell u exactly what i would do.
But for them to getaway without waking me would mean they defeated quite a few obstacles in their path that normally would wake me up.

But its really moot.... the location of the house and property and getting in and out of their isnt even an easy task when ur not criminal. Thats why i said if i have any intruders there, they aint their to be stealing anything.

 

[Kleanbore]

I was assuming i was coming home and finding the intruders in my home while i was gone. in which case i could disable their car while their inside.

I see.

If your assumption proved to be incorrect, you could be in a world of hurt.

Also, we have had threads here in which it was reported that someone else stayed outside to act as a lookout--usually to alert the others against a resident coming out from the house.

In any event. it would benefit the homeowner little to disable the car. He has no reason to be concerned about what happens to the perps.

And if they could not leave, they remain a danger to the homeowner. Not what one wants.

You want them gone.

That's why we always urge against trying to detain people.

 

[Kleanbore]

In both cases your getting stuff stolen. To a layman, we don,t care HOW they are atealing our stuff. Their stealing it!
We expect the police to stop it or find them and get our stuff back.

Yes, people do seem to expect that. When it happens, they are surprised , and usually disappointed, to find that he recovery of their property is not very high among the priorities of most police departments.

In many municipalities, they don't even send officers out to investigate grand theft auto reports.

So best way to avoid it is to make it more difficult for a theif to break in. Alarms, secure doors, big sticky cactus under the windows. Well lighted, cameras, dogs, etc....

"Thieves" do not break in, but we know what you mean.

That'll help.

But if they want in, they'll come in.

A decade or so ago, I heard a program about the number of houses being cleaned out by persons who had learned from the residents' social media "friends" that they would away on vacation.

I emailed everyone on our street about it.

"Wish you were here", posted a neighbor after that.

The alarm was disabled by someone someone who knew how to do it, and many things of value walked away while they were gone.

"Aren't, you even going to dust the windows for fingerprints???".

And the next year, they did it again!

People read and act upon funeral notices; if they know your surgery schedule, watch out.

There are ways to mitigate those risks, if someone will help.

Don't worry about your stuff--worry about your safety.

I think your risk exposure is much greater between your stopping in the driveway and your getting to the front door than it is after you have entered the house and locked the door

Again, locked the door. Late last year a man with a gun forced his way in after a couple who had just come home. He held them at gunpoint for a while, robbed them, and released them.

His image on a neighbor's Ring doorbell led to his arrest.

Long record.

He's probably out again,

 

[GEM]

Interesting tidbit, safe installer and deliver guys sometimes sell your info to burglars.

 

[Dibbs]

As I've said before, if that's the situation you want a recipe for, here it is: Hope that they don't press their advantage. That's it. How can you deal with a threat that you don't know about?

Once again, you misconstrue.

I'm not asking for instructions. I'm just opening the topic for conversation.

Here- about 45 years ago, at my aunt's house, in the fall, they found an 8 year old boy, sleeping in their den, one evening. Apparently, he'd gotten lost, in the neighborhood, he was cold, hungry, out of touch. He snuck in the kitchen, had himself some pop tarts, and went into the den, where it was warm, and dozed off, in an easy chair. The dog (obviously, not the world's best guard animal) either didn't determine him to be a threat, or was snoozing, under the porch, at the time. In short order, he was reunited with his family, who lived about half a mile away, happy ending. BUT, intruder, nobody knew he was there, for at least over an hour, got past the dog (it was an old dog, do your dogs age, too) and was in the house.

Texasgrillchief, the cops are there in 3 minutes? That sounds like a world record. You'd hate the Sheriff Dept. around here. They absolutely, positively, CAN be here, within 45 minutes, IF it's an emergency, and they're not busy. It's like that, a lot of times, out in the sticks.

More to the point, people keep bragging about the superior features of their specific homes, or security, which, as a blanket rule, many of us do not have, or have access to. Sorry, you know, I guess.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Here- about 45 years ago, at my aunt's house, in the fall, they found an 8 year old boy, sleeping in their den, one evening. Apparently, he'd gotten lost, in the neighborhood, he was cold, hungry, out of touch. He snuck in the kitchen, had himself some pop tarts, and went into the den, where it was warm, and dozed off, in an easy chair. The dog (obviously, not the world's best guard animal) either didn't determine him to be a threat, or was snoozing, under the porch, at the time. In short order, he was reunited with his family, who lived about half a mile away, happy ending. BUT, intruder, nobody knew he was there, for at least over an hour, got past the dog (it was an old dog, do your dogs age, too) and was in the house.

That's not an intruder that's a lost kid

 

[ilbob]

In Avoidance as a Strategy, I must apologize for straying off topic, somewhat.

Let's look at the home base in another light, for a second. How do you handle coming home
to the prospect of an intruder being inside your home, when you get there ?

Dogs are great, but not a perfect solution, for everyone.

i call the cops and let them deal with it.

 

[Kleanbore]

Which is it?

How do you handle coming home
to the prospect of an intruder being inside your home, when you get there ?

I'm not asking for instructions. I'm just opening the topic for conversation.

 

[Dibbs]

Well, when I said "handle" , I wasn't seeking instructions, of how to dial 911, in the event somebody obviously broke in, and made tracks into the house. Hope this helps.

 

[Kleanbore]

This one is done.