Role of the dog in home defense

[SleazyRider]

I was privy to a very disturbing scene at my veterinarian's office last week. A beautiful, 5-year old golden retriever was brought in emergently because his lower jaw was busted up from being kicked by an intruder who burglarized a home. The homeowner returned from work to find his home ransacked and dog severely injured. The dog had to be put down. It was a heartbreaking scene to say the least.

As a long-time dog owner, the mere mention of this sickens me. But it got me wondering: what is the role of a family dog in a home defense scenario when the occupants are at home? Night or day, I want my dog to alert me to a possible threat; then ideally, stand aside and let me handle matters without interference. I certainly wouldn't put a family member in harm's way, including the family dog, and it seems that an enthusiastic, barking dog would be more of a hindrance than a help, especially when using a weapon to repel an intruder.

I'd appreciate your thoughts and comments on dealing with the dog after it sounds the warning.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

A dog is just another tool in the home defense toolbox. I say "just", but a dog is also a member of the family while the family is a member of the pack.

Dogs serve to warn and defend. It comes natural to them, as it's an instinctive behavior. How the dog actually responds, like any other desired behavioral trait in a dog, is a function of the training the dog receives in conjunction with his instinctive behavioral characteristics and personality traits. If you want the dog to back off on command, then you train him to do so.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

My dogs readily respond to "leave it" and will sound the alarm and then vacate the general vicinity of the commotion on that command. We take them everywhere on and off leash and their command of the English language is better than most teenagers in my neighborhood.

Makes me sick to think of someone brutalizing a dog to burglarize a home but I know it happens. Mine are taught to harass or menace (bark and growl) on command but will not bite and if not commanded otherwise will stay away from a kick or attack unless there is no where to get away. Not much goes on around my house without an alert and my dogs are respected even by the neighbors.

If my dogs are barking and no one has told them to shut it the whole neighborhood is looking out the windows and coming outside to see why....they never bark unless there is reason and never persist unless of the same. Dogs need to be trained and only know what we teach them in terms of response and expectations. Most every dog I ever knew loves to be given a job and told he's good at it. Takes about 2 days to teach them to come, go, bark, sit, run away, etc if I use food and make it fun. Which I do on a 2 1/2 mile walkie 6 days a week no matter the weather. They learn exactly what to do if you work them everyday as a part of life but a training plan is absolutely necessary.

VooDoo

 

[ACP]

Hi SleazyRider,

Sorry you had to witness that. I'm a dog lover too.

My understanding from police handouts and Internet advice is that even the presence of a food dish or dog toy outside will be enough to make a burglar target the next home -- he doesn't know if it's a toy poodle or a trained attack dog he has to contend with. Why take the risk?

I have two dogs -- an 18 month male German Shepherd (about 75-80 pounds) and a rescue Shih-Tzu, about 20 pounds. The GSD was purchased to accompany my wife on runs in the woods; the ST was a rescue on a whim. They get along well. .

Like you, I expect my dogs to bark day or night if the doorbell rings, if they hear the front door open, or if they see a stranger in the house (that includes most of my kids friends, unfortunately,) I just want a heads-up before someone is in my bedroom with bad intent.

I do not expect them to stand idly by during a confrontation -- not that I have trained them, I just believe that is in the nature of most dogs, to protect their family. That will probably lead to unfortunate incidents such as an intruder striking, stabbing or shooting a family pet.

I have to admit I am unfamiliar with the laws regarding use of force in your own home to protect a pet. I'll have to quiz my local PD on that.

Good topic....

 

[nettlle]

Years ago we had one of our dogs shot and killed when our house was robbed. Luckily we weren't home at the time. The dog was killed at the back door doing what we expected it to do. Trying to protect the house.

Last year a representative from our homeowner's insurance came out and did a walk around inspection of our house. Later that day we got a call from the insurance company saying that they would no longer insure us do to the particular breed of dog that we had. We had to get of of the dog Same breed that was killed during the robbery.

I guess the insurance company though we were more attached to their insurance than we were to our dogs. We still have the dog but have a different insurance company now.

 

[jlr1962]

That would have been an awful thing to see Rider. My Lab of 11 years had to be put down 2 years ago. I was not good for weeks afterwards. Our dogs now will alert to anybody close to the house. The neighbors all around have dogs as well that alert to anything out of place.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I want to cross-breed certain dogs for certain physical/personality traits that I'm interested in.

For example, I'd like to cross a Great Dane with a Shih Tzu. I think they would make a wonderful dog for home defense. Let's face it...NOBODY wants to break into a house and step into a Shih Tzdane. There's just nothing good that can come out of that...

 

[larry_minn]

Dog is to sound warning, delay intruder. I had my dog attacked by salesman. Who then refused to "Get off my property" Sadly I did not SEE him kick my dog. He has no idea how close he came to waiting on ground for Deputy to show up.....

 

[ColtPythonElite]

All I ask for out of my dog is to be a first alert system. I have had some who were better than others. I have had a couple who went beyond being just a barker, too.

 

[Kach33]

I have a well trained 170 pound English mastiff who is a big part of my home defense plan. I work nights and while my wife could use a firearm if she had to, I really do feel more comfortable with the dog here when I'm not. But like has been said in this thread, sadly, dogs can be shot or kicked or whatever to eliminate the threat they present...I don't want to derail the thread but I'm a huge fan of working dogs and voodoo I'd like to ask what kind of dogs you have? Frogfurr too?..I think I could probably guess both. Voodoos from the description on how they're trained and listen and respond to commands and frogfurrs bc of the insurance comment. I have a few breeds in mind that would fall under that category and chances are I love them all

 

[Bobson]

it seems that an enthusiastic, barking dog would be more of a hindrance than a help

Probably so, but that doesn't mean a dog must be a nuisance liability when it comes to HD. It's a matter of training.

ANY dog can serve the "alert" role of HD, and a dog that's completely untrained will probably do it better than a dog exposed to just a bit of training. But if you really make it a point to have a very well trained dog, you can have an animal that will alert you quickly, AND stay out of the way when commanded to do so.

As far as the dog in the OP being beaten to where he had to be put down, well... yeah, that sucks. And unfortunately, it's something that will never be completely avoidable. Even highly trained police dogs are often defeated physically by criminals to where they're either killed outright, or must be put down after being injured.

 

[SleazyRider]

I hear you about the training. Unfortunately, and try as I did, I've not been able to train my high-strung, 11-year old springer spaniel to back off when a visitor comes to our house. I fully recognize and accept my failure at training her. She's a lover, not a fighter, but wants to be where the action is. I suppose at this stage of her life, the best strategy I can muster is to put her in the nearest bathroom and close the door to keep her out of the fray.

 

[Willie Sutton]

Can't imagine being without one.

Living aboard a boat 5 months a year in the Bahamas, where now and then people creep aboard boats in the middle of the night and steal things, our Boykin Spaniel is our alarm system and a Beretta M9 is our defense system. The mere presence of him keeps unwanted folks at a distance (the natives here are unreasonably afraid of dogs and dog ownership here is pretty rare). Nobody can walk aboard at night and not be heard. And that's just from a 40 pound Spaniel. Same at home. He's just a self-motivated alarm system.

In a life past I had a pair: Doberman and Dachshund. Guess which one was the aggressive alarm system? The Dobie was worthless as an alarm dog but a mouse couldn't sneak into the house with that Dachshund on alert.

Dogs are family. Be a good pack leader and you'll be rewarded. Terrible to see one harmed by an intruder. I shudder to think of how I would react to finding someone harming my Boykin.


Willie

.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Some dogs (many dogs) are natural guards and want to protect. The problem becomes when it's too big of a problem for the dog to handle and I need him to get out of the way and let *me* deal with it.

That needs to be a training issue - If I have to resort to physical violence to deal with a threat on my property/in my home I want the dog to stand down unless he is big enough and skilled enough to really keep an attacker down.

Like a trained Mastiff or Shepard....I had an Irish Wolfhound that was my Wife's best friend and protector and he was a natural guard dog. Heaven help the person who attacked that dog or his mistress...30" at the shoulders and 165 lbs of heavy built greyhound.Kind and loving but angry or attacked?

Unbelievable fury.

VooDoo

 

[HexHead]

Years ago we had one of our dogs shot and killed when our house was robbed. Luckily we weren't home at the time. The dog was killed at the back door doing what we expected it to do. Trying to protect the house.

Last year a representative from our homeowner's insurance came out and did a walk around inspection of our house. Later that day we got a call from the insurance company saying that they would no longer insure us do to the particular breed of dog that we had. We had to get of of the dog Same breed that was killed during the robbery.

I guess the insurance company though we were more attached to their insurance than we were to our dogs. We still have the dog but have a different insurance company now.

Most insurance companies have the same breeds on their "bad dogs" list. Don't be surprised if this one drops you too.

 

[SleazyRider]

Most insurance companies have the same breeds on their "bad dogs" list. Don't be surprised if this one drops you too.

Looks like my springer spaniel didn't make the list. Nor did the cocker spaniel that visciously attacked my son, requiring extensive plastic surgery to his face, as he was getting piano instruction at a neighbor's house.

Pit Bull Terriers
Staffordshire Terriers
Rottweilers
German Shepherds
Presa Canarios
Chows Chows
Doberman Pinschers
Akitas
Wolf-hybrids
Mastiffs
Cane Corsos
Great Danes
Alaskan Malamutes
Siberian Huskies

I understand legislation has passed, and is pending, in several states forbidding insurance companies to "profile" dog breeds.

 

[lemaymiami]

A few thoughts on dogs for security around the house. Their best attribute is their alert to strangers or anything out of the ordinary. Almost any dog can fill that function (mine are a pair of labrador retrievers) and the family pet is right up there as one of your best security factors around any house. Yes, there are a few breeds of dog that will not only alert but also defend your home -but think long and hard before you go that route since they'll need a lot of attention and occasionally can be a bigger threat to your family than any intruder... As for me - I wouldn't keep any attack trained or attack prone dog around my house. Too much chance of someone's kid getting hurt as far as I'm concerned.

I speak as a retired cop that always had dog handlers on every crew I ever worked with (and eventually ran as I moved up the promotion ladder). We actually had a policy of not searching buildings or any structure -that was the dog team's responsibilty... I've seen what a trained Rottweiler can do to an offender (and had one of my officers investigated for a civil rights allegation after his rotty did a real number on the leg of one bad guy -you could see bone at the bite site.... and it was only a single bite). For our special weapons unit -we always had a designated guy to kill the guard dog when we made entry into any felony situation -and we were hard on Fido if it was necessary. I know that will outrage any dog lover but the point is that any pro coming after you will do the same -count on it. For me at my house the moment my dogs quit barking is when I go to condition red.

Your family pet may be your best insurance against burglars or thieves but make no mistake your pet may not survive a serious attempt. We all get so attached to our pets that we don't even want to think about such a possibility...

On those occasions (fairly rare but still occasionally necessary) where our special unit needed to take out a dog the weapon was either a suppressed MP5 out on the perimeter or a very short barreled shotgun for the entry man right at whatever door they were making entry into. Yes, there are many really bad actors who will deliberately place a dog between them and whatever illegal stuff they're doing for a living...

 

[bikerdoc]

I have rotten. Big stupid lovevy thing great with the grand kids. Until some one tries to come into the yard or door. Then unless one of us says out the intruder best be prepared to get bit. I got nothing worth that kind of trouble

 

[Willie Sutton]

"Nor did the cocker spaniel that visciously attacked my son, requiring extensive plastic surgery to his face, as he was getting piano instruction at a neighbor's house."


Not surprised about the Cocker, truthfully. They are pretty well documented to being prone to a brain dysfunction that precipitatates unwarranted aggression:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_syndrome



Springers and Cockers, as a point of interest, were at one time the same breed. Dogs were hunt-tested to see if they pointed (cocked) to a bird in the field, or flushed (sprang) the bird. "Springing Spaniels" and "Cocking Spaniels" were named due to behaviour, not conformity. Naturally breeders desiring one or the other behaviours tended to breed cocking dogs to other cocking dogs, and vice-versa. Thus the divergance of breeds. Both can be very unreliable in temper (I grew up with Springers, which were the breed "in the family" for decades). Becoming popular with the result of too much inbreeding has developed dogs with undesirable agression problems in these breeds.


Lemay has it right: Being a Four-Footed self-arming alarm system is the work that all dogs do best. Can't imagine a home without one. Make mine a Boykin.


Willie

.

 

[Tony k]

I have a blue heeler. She is a gritty little dog that we used to use for raccoon hunting. She used a "nip and move" technique until she had a chance to grab the raccoon by the neck.

Everyone jokes about how loyal she is to me. We once did an experiment to see what she would do if someone attacked me. We set it up that I was on the ground losing a fight. The heeler flipped out and started doing the same "nip and move" technique that she uses on raccoons. We stopped the experiment before she went for my girlfriend's throat .

She'll be 15 years old this coming spring. She can't hear very well anymore, so I have to rely on the alertness of my younger Australian Shepard mix. The aussie mix does a good job of alerting, but wouldn't know what to do in a fight.

 

[Armored farmer]

As for me - I wouldn't keep any attack trained or attack prone dog around my house.

I totally felt the same way until a skinny, sickly, sore-footed boxer showed up here on our farm. Of course, Mrskb had to feed him and take it to the vet and spend $600 on him. Then my son and his new wife came home from their honeymoon and saw him...it was love at first sight. My daughter-in-law is 110lb citygirl who is very apprehensive about being alone out here in the country. That big loveable goofball has become her personal gaurd-dog. If she says," Is someone here??" and he is all business. I can guarantee nobody will mess with her as long as he is able to draw a breath. I think that dog can detect her fear.
It seems like it was meant to be.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I'd hate to have him do it, but I have a 7 years old rescue Chocolate Lab that would willingly die to save a family member. He's been thru the ringer in life and everyone who meets him loves him as he is calm, wonderful with children, incredibly well trained (not by me...) and handsome. The Vet Techs love him as well as his disposition even when injured or sick is more stable than many people.

He'll charge the fence at an intruder and his hackles raise up like a Mohawk from the top of his head to the base of his tail and folks who see this know he means business. If a stranger "makes up" to him he will cautiously accept them or if you are introduced he's your best friend for life but if they act furtive or look like they are "up to something" he will continue to follow them and growl with hackles up until I say "leave it!" My Wife doesn't believe he'd ever bite even if it was warranted.

I do believe he would bite and he's a very strong 80 lbs and can swim and jump and run fast as an arrow. He's really fit and strong. Gentle common breed that is a natural protector...intelligent and intuitive.

My perfect guard dog, he knows when it time to get bent and when it's time to have fun with fun being 99% of the trip.

VooDoo

 

[HexHead]

Looks like my springer spaniel didn't make the list. Nor did the cocker spaniel that visciously attacked my son, requiring extensive plastic surgery to his face, as he was getting piano instruction at a neighbor's house.

Pit Bull Terriers
Staffordshire Terriers
Rottweilers
German Shepherds
Presa Canarios
Chows Chows
Doberman Pinschers
Akitas
Wolf-hybrids
Mastiffs
Cane Corsos
Great Danes
Alaskan Malamutes
Siberian Huskies

I understand legislation has passed, and is pending, in several states forbidding insurance companies to "profile" dog breeds.

Never heard a whisper of that. Do you have any proof of such? Insurance companies base their rates on the severity and frequency of claims, and limit their exposure through exclusions. The alternative is to raise their rates for everyone, or just pull out of a state altogether.

 

[jlr1962]

My dogs at my most valuable possession. I have emotional attachment to some of the contents of my home, but not like the attachment to my dogs. A home security system will help to protect your dog's as well as the rest of the contents of your home. A UL rated monitoring center is a must.

 

[Averageman]

I used to have a very well trained Doberman.
While living in California Rosa heard a noise one night and jumped out of bed and hit the screen door like a freight train.
It took me a good 5 minutes to calm her down get her back in the house and calmed down.
In the morning while enjoying my coffee on the patio I found a bloody tennis shoe by the fence. It looked like someone had worked it over with a chainsaw.
Have you ever seen a Dobie smile? They roll there lips back and show their teeth and wag that little nub of a tail.
We played a lot of "fetch" with that shoe.