Concealed Carry For Old Folks

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.308 Norma said:
I am in no way suggesting a .22LR for a concealed carry gun, but Glock's G44 (.22LR) is actually the same size as a Glock G19, a mid-size (not a "full size") pistol. And while it may have been designed as a "trainer," that's not what I had in mind when I bought mine. The fact is, my Glock G44 was the first Glock I'd ever owned, and I like it so much that I went out and bought a G19 (which has become my CCW) to match.
My little G44 has become my favorite "kit" gun, replacing the little Smith .22/32 (Model 63) I used to carry while fishing and just bumming around in the hills. It's accurate, reliable, and it's a bonus that it feels just like my G19 - my CCW (only a little lighter).
BTW, I'm not recommending a Glock G19 for your friend either. As I said in my earlier post in this thread (#18), my wife struggles with arthritis in her right thumb joint, and for the purpose of this post, I had her operated the slide on my G19. She did it, but it was difficult for her. So, seeing as how my wife already has a Smith EZ that really is "easy" for her to operate, I'd bet dollars to donuts she can't be talked into trading it for a Glock of any flavor. ;)
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He apparently defines the 19 as full size. I also think, as does he, that a 22 lr. is better than a nothing but the idea of 22 mag seemed to interest him.
 
slide said:
I have an older neighbor who carries concealed but is having difficulties doing so. His hands, harmed by arthritis, can’t pull the slide reliably on his S&W MP 40 S&W. I fit some ‘ears’ on the slide for him which did help for a while but he’s back to having difficulties. He’s down to not carrying or retreating in power to the point he can again handle the firearm reliably in case of a jam or other issues.

IMO, he’s better off armed with a firearm he can handle rather than leaving his 40 at home in despair or carrying it without being fully able to use it.


My inexpert opinion is that his need would be well met by a compact or subcompact striker fired semi-auto in .22 mag. I think he and others are better served by draw, point and fire than having to deal with a safety in a hammer fired pistol. I wonder if a striker would reliably ignite a rimfire too.


Does any such firearm even exist? I know that Glock has a .22 lr but that’s a trainer for a full size pistol so more than a bit unwieldy. An ideal would be a Glock in a 29 size in .22 mag. Suggestions?
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My personal opinion is that if he is getting to the point where he cannot operate a standard firearm, it may be time to no longer carry one.
 
Armored farmer said:
My gut instinct says to go with a revolver.
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Mine too. I think I would go with something heavier than 20 oz though. Colt Cobra with its cushy rubber grip comes to mind first. Taurus 856, Kimber K6 and Ruger SP101 also might work. Of course assuming he manages the trigger and recoil ok. Since he "knows his stuff" though he probably knows what he wants.
 
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but my dad (who was motorized wheelchair bound for the last couple of years of his life) was none too strong, and he had one of those little Berreta "Tomcat" (.32ACP) pistols with a tip-up barrel in a pocket almost everywhere he went. With the "tip-up" barrel, he didn't have to rack the slide - he just tipped the barrel up, shoved a round in, closed the barrel and cocked the hammer back with his thumb for the first shot.
But then again, Dad was always a ".32 ANYTHING" kind of guy. He would have probably chosen that Berreta Tomcat over a Smith EZ just because the Tomcat was a .32 - even though he was plenty strong enough to operate the slide on a Smith EZ .380 or 9mm. ;)
 
slide said:
Shield
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Based on your OP, I thought he was carrying an M&P 40 which would be a duty size gun, with duty size gun reliability with duty size capacity, with a large easy to grip slide.

Realizing it is a Shield, with a small and difficult to grip slide, with low capacity, and potential reliability issues of sub-compact guns gives me a different understanding of the situation.
 
JTQ said:
Based on your OP, I thought he was carrying an M&P 40 which would be a duty size gun, with duty size gun reliability with duty size capacity, with a large easy to grip slide.

Realizing it is a Shield, with a small and difficult to grip slide, with low capacity, and potential reliability issues of sub-compact guns gives me a different understanding of the situation.
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Yes, seeing your post made me realize I left out important and relevant data in my OP. My apologies.
 
.308 Norma said:
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but my dad (who was motorized wheelchair bound for the last couple of years of his life) was none too strong, and he had one of those little Berreta "Tomcat" (.32ACP) pistols with a tip-up barrel in a pocket almost everywhere he went. With the "tip-up" barrel, he didn't have to rack the slide - he just tipped the barrel up, shoved a round in, closed the barrel and cocked the hammer back with his thumb for the first shot.
But then again, Dad was always a ".32 ANYTHING" kind of guy. He would have probably chosen that Berreta Tomcat over a Smith EZ just because the Tomcat was a .32 - even though he was plenty strong enough to operate the slide on a Smith EZ .380 or 9mm. ;)
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I wondered if a .32 existed that met his criteria but failed to find one. While a tip up firearm would be better than no firearm, he's mentally ready to 'downgrade' to a lesser caliber but not to the point of losing that many follow up shots. I wonder if people are tougher or what. A 32 used to be a policeman's sidearm.
 
Blue Jays said:
People have told me Staccato pistols rack easily…and almost as if mounted on ball bearings.
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slide said:
I never heard of that brand. I'll look into it.
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Blue Jays said:
The quality is off-the-charts super premium…like a Swiss watch.
Just be suitably prepared for a matching price tag while shopping!
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Great guns, and probably worth every penny of the price.

However, they all will have a thumb safety.

While I personally agree, a hammer fired gun with the hammer cocked, will generally have a pretty easy to rack slide, I don't think our OP is looking for a gun with a manual safety.

Staccato website https://staccato2011.com/
 
Yes, I looked the Staccato up and while I'd very much wish to have one, they are out of bounds in this case for several reasons.
 
I realize the OP's friend is looking for a small gun, and in that case, the Shield EZ is probably a good choice.

In all these threads the point I always try to make is we always seem to get recommendations from presumably healthy adult males for small, difficult to shoot guns, whether they are a Shield, G43, LCP, J-Frame, etc., for old/small/weak/female/etc., folks that have difficulty shooting guns.

I'm a reasonably healthy adult male, and I don't want to either shoot those little guns or manipulate their controls. A duty size gun is so much easier to shoot, for nearly anybody, and their control manipulation will be so much easier, and they are probably going to be more reliable and have greater capacity.

However, if you've got to have a little gun, you're going to have to find something that he can reasonably work.
 
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JTQ said:
I realize the OP's friend is looking for a small gun, and in that case, the Shield EZ is probably a good choice.

In all these threads the point I always try to make is we always seem to get recommendations from presumably healthy adult males for small, difficult to shoot guns, whether they are a Shield, G43, LCP, J-Frame, etc., for old/small/weak/female/etc., folks that have difficulty shooting guns.

I'm a reasonably healthy adult male, and I don't want to either shoot those little guns or manipulate their controls. A duty size gun is so much easier to shoot, for nearly anybody, and their control manipulation will be so much easier, and they are probably going to be more reliable and have greater capacity.

However, if you've got to have a little gun, you're going to have to find something that he can reasonably work.
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A couple of years ago I got my wife a 380 Shield EZ. I think most people don't have issues. We did have issues with hers (the issue was with feeding the last round from the magazine) After a trip back to S&W, them sending me new magazine springs & me finally just replacing the OEM magazine springs with different springs it works. It just isn't as easy to load the magazines now. I believe the 9mm versions have not had this issue.
With that said these pistols while not full sized by any stretch of the imagination are large enough to be easy to shoot. The controls are easy to manipulate & the magazines (with the factory spring) are easy to load. My wife really likes hers & she is very averse to recoil.
 
I have never been shooting with ANYONE that hasn't fallen in love with Browning 1911-380... Including my petite daughter way back when she was 11 years old.

Having replicated the 1911 breach lock makes the 1911-380 an INCREDIBLY smooth and easy shooting pistols with a very light recoil unlike the blow back 380's and there sharp recoil.

Because of a hand injury my gf will only shoot 22lr semiautos (Ruger mk iv). She had no problem shooting the 1911-380 and characterized it as really not much different than the MK IV.

When looking for an easy to handle low recoiling pistol I would definitely put a 1911-380 on the list to try before buying a new gun. It might not check all of his boxes BUT he might find that it is they perfect carry pistol for him if he gives it a try.
 
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I'll be eighty in a couple months and there are definitely some pistols where I find it difficult to rack the slide without first cocking the hammer. I still carry full size pistols at times including all steel 1911 Government and Commander, P-35 clones and the S&W Wonder Nines and even my S&W 19, 28, Colt Army Special and even a 1917 (but not too often). Most often though I tend to choose my Colt Detective Special loaded with non-+P rounds, either flat point or hollow point.

In threads like this one though I often see pronouncements that while couched as absolutes are so bereft of qualifiers and information that they become meaningless.

A few examples, Quite often it is said that smaller pistols (and revolvers) are harder to shoot than larger ones. What does that even mean?

Let me try a few examples that might illustrate my point.

First, I'm a fairly typical old fart who is over weight, somewhat over sized, out of shape and weaker than I have ever been in the past. I have arthritis and sciatica and bad hips and bad back and need to look outside each morning just to make sure I'm still on the green (or brown) side of the grass. Sure, guns with a shorter sight radius are much harder to shoot accurately at distance but then I'm not about to try or take any shot at anything over 50-75 feet except for fun at the range. I'm not going to make an arrest, intervene in a domestic dispute, try to stop someone from stealing my property or money or car and my primary area of concern and responsibility is a circle about me with a 15 to 20 foot radius.

The question then when I consider a self defense handgun is "Can I accurately, rapidly and repeatedly place two or three controlled rounds in a minute of dessert plate size circle at any point within that 15 to 25 foot radius circle?"

Consider two relatively small .380 pistols, my Sig P230 and my S&W M&P Bodyguard 380. As the Bodyguard came from the factory I initially had difficulty meeting the criteria outlined above since it is truly so small I can only get two fingers on the grip. However simply adding a Hogue Handall grip sleeve made it not just possible but relatively easy to meet the criteria outlined.

The Sig P230 is the blued aluminum alloy framed version and came from the factory with rubber (almost certainly Hogue) rubber grips and easily and comfortably met the criteria. However when I replaced the rubber grips with pretty wood ones perfect for a BBQ or Pachanga it became more difficult to meet the criteria and the times definitely went up.

A couple other examples. In S&W "J" frame sized revolvers I had little trouble meeting the criteria with my old all steel Centennial Lemon Squeezer or my Chiefs Special, or the steel equivalent from Charter Arms or Taurus but found it nearly impossible to do so the my 642 Centennial Airweight. The issue in that example was simply weight; the 642 was just too light to control reasonably but the greater weight of the former examples made the tiny gun manageable. Step up just slightly in size to the Colt "D" frame or S&W "K" frame and I find a significant improvement in control-ability and rapid return to POA.

What I do find as a constant though is that there is little accuracy difference based on the criteria above between larger framed and smaller framed handguns but that all of my .380 and 32acp and S&W 38 and 38 Special and S&W 32 Long are easier and faster to return to POA and fire a second or third shot on target than with my larger framed 357 Magnum, 9mm Parabellum and 45acp handguns.
 
I'll mention the 1911 in 380 but he specifically liked the no safety release of his S&W. I suppose the grip safety of the 1911 works well but everybody I know who is familiar with the 1911 and so carries it keeps the manual safety on while carrying. That's his issue.

I don't think recoil an issue with him.
 
jar said:
A few examples, Quite often it is said that smaller pistols (and revolvers) are harder to shoot than larger ones. What does that even mean?
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Since I made that claim, I'll answer ...

In any shooting competition that doesn't specifically require a small gun per the rules, the competitors almost universally choose the duty sized gun over the smaller gun. The reason, I'll assume, because it applies to me as a non-competitor, is the larger gun is easier to shoot.

The sight radius is longer, the grip is larger and easier to hold, the size/shape/weight of the gun will help reduce the felt recoil over the smaller gun, and since the gun is larger, you are less likely to interfere with the slide cycling, or have issues with muzzle blast which you may have with a small revolver. Manipulating the larger gun is also usually easier as there is more slide to grab to rack, and some small guns have very stiff recoil springs since they can't count on the weight of the slide to aid in slowing the cycle time.
 
JTQ said:
Since I made that claim, I'll answer ...

In any shooting competition that doesn't specifically require a small gun per the rules, the competitors almost universally choose the duty sized gun over the smaller gun. The reason, I'll assume, because it applies to me as a non-competitor, is the larger gun is easier to shoot.

The sight radius is longer, the grip is larger and easier to hold, the size/shape/weight of the gun will help reduce the felt recoil over the smaller gun, and since the gun is larger, you are less likely to interfere with the slide cycling, or have issues with muzzle blast which you may have with a small revolver. Manipulating the larger gun is also usually easier as there is more slide to grab to rack, and some small guns have very stiff recoil springs since they can't count on the weight of the slide to aid in slowing the cycle time.
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The topic is "Concealed Carry For Old Folks".
 
Full size despite what many rambos think, is not optimal for most people who carry everyday who want to be comfortable, and not print. A full size brings a heft, even compacts carry a weight penalty too. After an hour, they all start to feel like a 1911 no matter if it's a polymer striker fired. We can say get a proper belt and get a proper holster or change carry position or wear certain clothes so doesn't print until our lungs give out. In the end it's eventually going to weigh a ton and as folks age this will be more noticeable in felt weight.

At least a Shield EZ for the weak, injured, sick, and the elderly, gives them all a fighting chance.

hAvE sOmEoNe eLsE rAcK tHe sLiDe fOr tHem is great, until a malfunction happens and it becomes not so great. Or the "They should no longer be armed" and be defenseless and we get to read another news story and think "He or she should have carried!" and now cue the drum ba-dum-bish to the end of that.

Good grief, we are our own worst enemy at times. I know that people think that they are helping. You really aren't. If hearing me say that hurts, well that's what the truth is supposed to do.
 
83 1/2 years old, not in the best of shape, overweight, weak and ready to go home. I have a RUGER LCR in .357 Mag but shoot .38 's in it. I love it. Trigger pull is smooth and very controllable. I carry extra ammo in strippers. Only 5 shots, but thats OK. LCR's are available in .22 Mag if wanted,
 
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