Concealed Carry For Old Folks

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slide

slide

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I have an older neighbor who carries concealed but is having difficulties doing so. His hands, harmed by arthritis, can’t pull the slide reliably on his S&W MP 40 S&W. I fit some ‘ears’ on the slide for him which did help for a while but he’s back to having difficulties. He’s down to not carrying or retreating in power to the point he can again handle the firearm reliably in case of a jam or other issues.

IMO, he’s better off armed with a firearm he can handle rather than leaving his 40 at home in despair or carrying it without being fully able to use it.


My inexpert opinion is that his need would be well met by a compact or subcompact striker fired semi-auto in .22 mag. I think he and others are better served by draw, point and fire than having to deal with a safety in a hammer fired pistol. I wonder if a striker would reliably ignite a rimfire too.


Does any such firearm even exist? I know that Glock has a .22 lr but that’s a trainer for a full size pistol so more than a bit unwieldy. An ideal would be a Glock in a 29 size in .22 mag. Suggestions?
 
I thought the EZs were hammer fired. If so, isn't carrying cocked and unlocked a bit risky? I'll also suggest the Walther.
 
slide said:
I thought the EZs were hammer fired. If so, isn't carrying cocked and unlocked a bit risky? I'll also suggest the Walther.
Click to expand...

Plenty of modern polymer guns use a semi-cocked hammer instead of a semi-cocked striker. They essentially act the same in how safe they are and how they fire when the trigger is pulled.

People that wan't a manual safety lever on a semi-cocked hammer fired gun probably want a manual safety lever on a semi-cocked striker fired gun.
 
You can remove the safety from the LCP Lite Rack, and even buy a filler piece for it. Good little pistols. My go to for very small and no recoil on my bad hand days. I know of several older gents that would have one of these in their pockets or waistband. Kept the shooting and armed when nothing else would work for them.

Also, this might sound weird but it works for me. And a few other older gents passed this down to me and it seems to be working for them. Snubs, but with larger grips and WCs. The larger grips really help keep my hands in a position where they don’t hurt and distributes the recoil energy more. Makes the pistol look funny, IMHO, but works. That and ditching the Airweights and ULs for full steel weighted snubs.

EZs are pretty good too. I have both flavors and carry them regularly when I carry on the belt or shoulder holster. I have the NTS versions. They still have the grip safety that everyone complains about. My only issue is that the EZs just aren’t as accurate as I wish them to be. But could be just the two I have. I carry the snubs or LCP Lite Rack more nowadays.

I’ve come to terms with my damaged and weakened hands and started to carry my TX22 in my Galco shoulder holster for my Glocks. Fits like a glove and very light weight. Bigger grip helps me out a lot.
Lefty
 
No, the strikers are fine and the EZ are a good choice. Look for a local rental range to see if there is one where the gun can be tested. I don't see the objection to the Glock 44 if he can rack it. The size is comparable to most carry guns.

About a manual safety - why is that an issue if the gentleman knows to keep his finger off the trigger? Being elderly and having hand usage problems, a manual safety in a life or death situation is just another thing to screw up.

Don't buy unless he tries one.

A J frame with mild wadcutters and decent springs for a trigger pull is a good solution also. The LCR might have a better trigger.

I would note that the 22 LR and Mag revolvers have harder triggers and the recoil of the 38s can be tamed by using the milder rounds, such as the wads.
 
When my friend got shot in the hand, he still wanted to carry something while healing and the cops suggested that he go out and buy a Shield EZ. It was great advice. I'd get the .380 version, hardly any recoil to effect or be hurt by, super easy to use that gun too. Either Fiocchi FMJ, Federal LE marked 50 round boxes of Hydra Shoks regular, Hydra Shok Deep, or Hornady XTP and he's got a decent chance to be well armed again despite his condition.
 
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I misunderstood the EZ. I thought it was SA like the 1911s so reliant on manual release safety for carrying. I also did not know the EZ had a grip safety which to me makes all the difference in my mind. I never worried about carrying the 1911. I personally think 380 is plenty of power and of course, beats the 22s handily.

I'll suggest to him he tries to find one to try either at a rental range or a store.

Thanks to this group again for its advice and guidance. As to the half cocked hammer, like a striker, no I never heard of that.
 
I have shot the 9mm. There is very little difference between it and the 380. I don't know how S&W did it but they did.

If the EZ is hammer fired it is internal. It's been so long since I cleaned my wife's I don't remember what the innards look like.
 
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I always follow these "I'm old, I'm weak, I'm a woman, I'm small, I'm a child, etc" threads since I'm getting old, and I'm not very big.

After several years of following these debates, my answer has remained the same. At this point in my getting old/small/weak life, if I could conceal it, I'd much rather have a duty size semi-auto rather than a little gun that is hard to grip or a revolver that would require a 10+ pound pull the trigger for every shot.

Racking the slide - how many times would he have to do this? Load up a duty sized auto like an M&P 40, and he'd have 15 rounds of fire before the gun goes empty and the slide locks back. Load another mag, hit the mag release, and 15 more rounds before the slide locks back. Theoretically, you could rack the slide once in your life and never have to do it again.

Heck, if he's having trouble, somebody could come over and rack the slide for him and load up the gun and he may never have to do it. One could also learn to rack the slide by hooking the M&P's rear sight on an object like a table, arm chair, door frame, belt, holster, etc.

For me, taking out concealment questions, that is another issue, manipulating and shooting a duty sized auto pistol is easier than dealing with a little pistol or a revolver. The auto pistol is easier to grip, there is more slide material to grab and allow me to rack the slide, and the triggers are usually better.
 
Ya, but no. When you had a hole put in your hand, really are weak, having a super easy pistol that was made just for this is the answer. Chest thumping that they should suck it up and deal with it and let some other rack it for them is setting folks up for failure.
 
doubleh said:
I have shot the 9mm. There is very little difference between it and the 380. I don't know how S&W did it but they did.
Click to expand...
It really is a matter of perception. I've told the story several times on THR about how both my wife and oldest daughter carry Smith EZs, but our daughter's is a 9mm, while my wife's is only a .380.
My wife struggles with arthritis in her right thumb joint (probably in part due to literally tens of thousands of full-house .44 Mag revolver rounds fired during IHMSA practice and competition back in the '80s) and she has a hard time racking the slide on most semi-autos. So, when Smith came out with their EZs, she was interested, and our oldest daughter just happened to have one (a .380) that she let my wife borrow to try out.
My wife ran a few magazines through it, and promptly headed down to our favorite gun store and bought one for herself. That was great for a while - until Smith came out with the same gun in 9mm, and our daughter (probably with her husband's encouragement) went down and traded her .380EZ in on a 9mmEZ.
Our daughter really likes her 9mmEZ, and she claimed, "It doesn't kick any harder than the .380 I used to have." However, my wife, an older (naturally) and more experienced lady with arthritis in her right thumb joint tried our daughter's new 9mm Shield EZ, and she said, "IT DOES TOO KICK HARDER!!!" :eek::D
Nevertheless, my wife didn't find our daughter's 9mm Shield EZ much, if any harder to operate than her own .380 Shield EZ. It's just that because of the arthritis in her right thumb joint, she can't tolerate 9mm recoil in that small of a package. On the other hand (no pun intended) my wife loves her 9mm Sig P239 - a larger pistol. She completed the Idaho "Enhanced" CCW class with me using P239 to fire the required 98 or 100 rounds inside of a couple of hours, and it didn't bother her one bit. It was just that she struggles some with operating the slide on her sweet shooting Sig P239. :)
 
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I am 80. I have arthritis in my hands. I EDC a Ruger Security 9 Compact, hammer fired pistol. I find it hard to rack unless I do it the right way. I get a firm grip on the slide between my palm and fingers. Them I hold the grip rightly. Then I push left with my right hand and right with my left hand. It’s a lot easier that way.
 
JTQ said:
Racking the slide - how many times would he have to do this? Load up a duty sized auto like an M&P 40, and he'd have 15 rounds of fire before the gun goes empty and the slide locks back. Load another mag, hit the mag release, and 15 more rounds before the slide locks back. Theoretically, you could rack the slide once in your life and never have to do it again.

Heck, if he's having trouble, somebody could come over and rack the slide for him and load up the gun and he may never have to do it. One could also learn to rack the slide by hooking the M&P's rear sight on an object like a table, arm chair, door frame, belt, holster, etc.

For me, taking out concealment questions, that is another issue, manipulating and shooting a duty sized auto pistol is easier than dealing with a little pistol or a revolver. The auto pistol is easier to grip, there is more slide material to grab and allow me to rack the slide, and the triggers are usually better.
Click to expand...

His concern about racking is clearing a jam. This man is well trained and knows his stuff. I doubt he'd also be willing to ask me to clean his weapon after a range day. He's got his dignity that was earned.

It's his issue if he wishes to carry a duty size or compact or sub compact or one of those little LCP things. He wishes a compact so I got to researching out of some spare time and thus my OP. All of us are different. He expressed no issues with the size of the M&P Shield so the EZ may be just the thing. It'd be up to him to decide.
 
dweis said:
I am 80. I have arthritis in my hands. I EDC a Ruger Security 9 Compact, hammer fired pistol. I find it hard to rack unless I do it the right way. I get a firm grip on the slide between my palm and fingers. Them I hold the grip rightly. Then I push left with my right hand and right with my left hand. It’s a lot easier that way.
Click to expand...

I have to accept his statement of condition. I'm *hardly* the guy to try to give him instructions.
 
slide said:
Does any such firearm even exist? I know that Glock has a .22 lr but that’s a trainer for a full size pistol so more than a bit unwieldy.
Click to expand...
I am in no way suggesting a .22LR for a concealed carry gun, but Glock's G44 (.22LR) is actually the same size as a Glock G19, a mid-size (not a "full size") pistol. And while it may have been designed as a "trainer," that's not what I had in mind when I bought mine. The fact is, my Glock G44 was the first Glock I'd ever owned, and I like it so much that I went out and bought a G19 (which has become my CCW) to match.
My little G44 has become my favorite "kit" gun, replacing the little Smith .22/32 (Model 63) I used to carry while fishing and just bumming around in the hills. It's accurate, reliable, and it's a bonus that it feels just like my G19 - my CCW (only a little lighter).
BTW, I'm not recommending a Glock G19 for your friend either. As I said in my earlier post in this thread (#18), my wife struggles with arthritis in her right thumb joint, and for the purpose of this post, I had her operated the slide on my G19. She did it, but it was difficult for her. So, seeing as how my wife already has a Smith EZ that really is "easy" for her to operate, I'd bet dollars to donuts she can't be talked into trading it for a Glock of any flavor. ;)
 
People have told me Staccato pistols rack easily…and almost as if mounted on ball bearings.
I have a few friends who own that brand, so I will have a chance to try them in coming months.
 
slide said:
As to the half cocked hammer, like a striker, no I never heard of that.
Click to expand...

Most of the semi-cocked hammer pistols look like striker guns from the side view. The hammer is internal and may or may not be visible to the shooter when the trigger is pulled. This is entirely different than a true DAO pistol with the hammer spur simply missing.

One example is anything based off the KelTec carry gun designs. The Ruger LCP variants have internal semi-cocked hammers like shown in the video below. It is my understanding that the version of these guns that have lighter triggers simply have the hammer more cocked than the heavier trigger variants.

That makes me think if the S&W EZ is easier to rack, part of that may be due to the hammer being closer to fully cocked than other semi-cocked hammer guns. Which would explain why the EZ has a grip safety.

 
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