If the technique is really so bad, why does a major police department like DPD, where so many officers are involved in firefights, teach it?
Concealed Carry For Old Folks
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If the technique is really so bad, why does a major police department like DPD, where so many officers are involved in firefights, teach it?
CajunBass
Member
I'm a 70 year old revolver lover, with a bit of arthritus and carpel tunnel myself. I've searched high and low for a carry gun all my life, mostly I admit because I like trying new guns, but there is a little bit of "I can't find one I really like" in there too. I've tried dozens of revolvers, small 9mm's, even the Smith and Wesson EZ...couldn't stand them for some reason. I just didn't like them, 9mm or 380.
Well, I've finally found the one I'm going to keep and use. Actually I have two, but only one of them gets used regularly. The winner is a Beretta 84F, in 380. A conventional DA/SA with a 13 round magazine, + 1 in the chamber of course. It has a manual safety/decocker, which can be just left in the "off" position and carried depending on the long D/A trigger as a practical safety. Speaking of the safety/decocker, when used to decock, it sets the hammer in a half-cock position, making the DA first shot, shorter and lighter by at least half. It's not a small gun, with a 4" barrel and a full sized double stack grip it spreads the recoil out quite well, making it very plesant to shoot. Magazine release is in the conventional "American" position.
Now the down side. The sights are very small, and I suppose if one had vision problems, they might be a problem. The front sight is part of the slide so it can't practically be changed. I don't have any problems with them but I do limit my range time to the 5-7 yard distance mostly. They're also currently out of production, so the used market is the only real source, and they can be somewhat expensive in the $600 range. As an aside, they are also available in 32 ACP, although I personally have never seen one I don't think.
However, as so often happens, nature abhores a vacuum. Tisas of Turkey makes a "clone" of the Model 84, called a Fatih 13, that is currently available. It's a clone of the Model 84BB, so it lacks the decocker/safety the F model has, meaning you have to either carry it cocked and locked, or manually lower the hammer on a live round, something I have no problem doing, but perhaps someone with more severe arthritus may not be comfortable with. The Tisas also sells for about half what a Beretta will likely set you back. Both guns have been flawless with both FMJ and HP ammo for me, with the Tisas drawing EDC duties, simply because I don't want to mess up the Beretta. I'd rather bang plastic grips off furniture, cars and such than wood ones.
With both guns, you can carry with the safety "on" if you want to, I just choose to depend of the DA trigger, which by the way is quite nice on both, as is the SA. Physically, they're about the size of a Shield, a little smaller than a Glock 19 type gun. I carry them in a Maxx Carry, IWB holster. Even fully loaded, they're not really heavy. They not LCR light, but I don't notice them. Magazines are interchangable.
A lot of people say they're hard to rack the slide. I thought so at first, but have developed a technique that works for me, gripping the slide by the front scallop and pulling/push from there, not the rear of the slide. Keep your hand behind the muzzle, and your finger off the tirgger, and no problem. I also have a little gizmo called a Pachmayr Slide assist tool (or something like that) that is a godsend when racking a slide, but probably not practical for EDC use. At the range, or at home, though it's great.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018761599/
Those are my thoughts, sort of an old school solution. Probably not for everyone, but this old man really likes them.
Well, I've finally found the one I'm going to keep and use. Actually I have two, but only one of them gets used regularly. The winner is a Beretta 84F, in 380. A conventional DA/SA with a 13 round magazine, + 1 in the chamber of course. It has a manual safety/decocker, which can be just left in the "off" position and carried depending on the long D/A trigger as a practical safety. Speaking of the safety/decocker, when used to decock, it sets the hammer in a half-cock position, making the DA first shot, shorter and lighter by at least half. It's not a small gun, with a 4" barrel and a full sized double stack grip it spreads the recoil out quite well, making it very plesant to shoot. Magazine release is in the conventional "American" position.
Now the down side. The sights are very small, and I suppose if one had vision problems, they might be a problem. The front sight is part of the slide so it can't practically be changed. I don't have any problems with them but I do limit my range time to the 5-7 yard distance mostly. They're also currently out of production, so the used market is the only real source, and they can be somewhat expensive in the $600 range. As an aside, they are also available in 32 ACP, although I personally have never seen one I don't think.
However, as so often happens, nature abhores a vacuum. Tisas of Turkey makes a "clone" of the Model 84, called a Fatih 13, that is currently available. It's a clone of the Model 84BB, so it lacks the decocker/safety the F model has, meaning you have to either carry it cocked and locked, or manually lower the hammer on a live round, something I have no problem doing, but perhaps someone with more severe arthritus may not be comfortable with. The Tisas also sells for about half what a Beretta will likely set you back. Both guns have been flawless with both FMJ and HP ammo for me, with the Tisas drawing EDC duties, simply because I don't want to mess up the Beretta. I'd rather bang plastic grips off furniture, cars and such than wood ones.
With both guns, you can carry with the safety "on" if you want to, I just choose to depend of the DA trigger, which by the way is quite nice on both, as is the SA. Physically, they're about the size of a Shield, a little smaller than a Glock 19 type gun. I carry them in a Maxx Carry, IWB holster. Even fully loaded, they're not really heavy. They not LCR light, but I don't notice them. Magazines are interchangable.
A lot of people say they're hard to rack the slide. I thought so at first, but have developed a technique that works for me, gripping the slide by the front scallop and pulling/push from there, not the rear of the slide. Keep your hand behind the muzzle, and your finger off the tirgger, and no problem. I also have a little gizmo called a Pachmayr Slide assist tool (or something like that) that is a godsend when racking a slide, but probably not practical for EDC use. At the range, or at home, though it's great.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018761599/
Those are my thoughts, sort of an old school solution. Probably not for everyone, but this old man really likes them.
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The_Quartermaster
Member
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Apples and oranges comparisons.
Because they are healthy, not elderly, not weak, fit with no ailments, not diseased, making your argument a straw man, goalpost stretching, and an appeal to authority figure.
That's why. But if you're all for talking the talk and comparing a profession that has physical requirements to an older person with debilitating arthritis who while trained thoroughly according to the OP, has chosen to no longer carry because he cannot clear a malfunction because he cannot charge that slide, then that's a cognitive dissonance going on here.
Did you know that arthritis also affects movements that require pushing, making it just as painful for that joint to push a slide down on something just as much as pulling something rearward? Huh...it's almost like I was the only one who was listening and not superimposing at the same time.
In case it has not already been mentioned, Claude Werner, a.k.a. The Tactical Professor, has written/said much on the subject of the “Old Man Gun.” This should be easily searchable. I recall that he has advocated smaller autos, and rimfires. I have not personally adopted his recommendations, because small autos, with few exceptions, tend to vex me. (I am more of a revolving pistol type of old man, for my actual carry guns. My endurance with long-stroke DA triggers is diminishing, in my sixties, but I can still pull a DA trigger well enough, to empty the cylinder several times, without needing to stop and recover for a short while. I maintain skill with operating single-action revolvers*, because someday, DA triggers may become a problem.)
I did handle a Shield EZ. I liked the concept, and still do. It was not, however, a best fit, in my hands, and was not anywhere close to being a “natural pointer.” I could probably re-train myself, but that would require expending quite a bit of expensive ammo, that would have to be funded with my retiree’s budget. Others’ hands will vary, and so, I am glad that the EZ exists.
Regarding the .40 S&W cartridge, I was an early enthusiast, in the early Nineties, but by 2011, when was age 50, it had become .40 Snap & Whip, for my gimpier right thumb/wrist/hand, so, I empathize with slide’s friend. I had to keep using a .40 S&W duty pistol, until 2015, but, during personal time, could opt for something different, so, got my full-sized, all-steel 1911 out of the safe, and took it to the range. I was gratified to find that the heavier, lower-bore-axis 1911, firing the slower-accelerating .45 ACP, was not painful to shoot, and, thankfully, operating the 1911’s thumb safety remained intuitive, after nearly a decade of using auto pistols without safeties. Although I was a believer in the concept of carrying the same type of pistol, on and off the clock, I found that I could be reasonably competent with both the 1911 and the SIG P229R DAK. (DAK was my choice; not mandated by the PD. Most of my colleagues, who chose SIG, opted for DA/SA.)
To be clear, I have not totally abandoned auto-pistols. I still like my full-sized 1911 and Glock pistols, especially, but, for actual daily carry, have largely reverted to revolving pistols.
*The shape of single-action revolver’s hammers is more amenable to thumb-cocking than hammers found on most DA revolvers.
I did handle a Shield EZ. I liked the concept, and still do. It was not, however, a best fit, in my hands, and was not anywhere close to being a “natural pointer.” I could probably re-train myself, but that would require expending quite a bit of expensive ammo, that would have to be funded with my retiree’s budget. Others’ hands will vary, and so, I am glad that the EZ exists.
Regarding the .40 S&W cartridge, I was an early enthusiast, in the early Nineties, but by 2011, when was age 50, it had become .40 Snap & Whip, for my gimpier right thumb/wrist/hand, so, I empathize with slide’s friend. I had to keep using a .40 S&W duty pistol, until 2015, but, during personal time, could opt for something different, so, got my full-sized, all-steel 1911 out of the safe, and took it to the range. I was gratified to find that the heavier, lower-bore-axis 1911, firing the slower-accelerating .45 ACP, was not painful to shoot, and, thankfully, operating the 1911’s thumb safety remained intuitive, after nearly a decade of using auto pistols without safeties. Although I was a believer in the concept of carrying the same type of pistol, on and off the clock, I found that I could be reasonably competent with both the 1911 and the SIG P229R DAK. (DAK was my choice; not mandated by the PD. Most of my colleagues, who chose SIG, opted for DA/SA.)
To be clear, I have not totally abandoned auto-pistols. I still like my full-sized 1911 and Glock pistols, especially, but, for actual daily carry, have largely reverted to revolving pistols.
*The shape of single-action revolver’s hammers is more amenable to thumb-cocking than hammers found on most DA revolvers.
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My previous post, should not be taken as a recommendation that anyone who is not already familiar with revolvers should transition to revolvers. This is especially so, in the case of single-action revolvers. I became intensely interested in SA sixguns in the mid/late Nineties, so, am entering my senior years already being familiar with them.
Plus, some of my DA revolvers are relatively friendly to thumb-cocking , especially one pre-Model 10 snubby, with a “post-war transition hammer,” and a 2” Colt Official Police. I am not advocating the act of cocking a defensive revolver, but, physical limitations can force some adaptations. I hope that I am quite a long way from being compelled to cock a revolver, defensively.
Plus, some of my DA revolvers are relatively friendly to thumb-cocking , especially one pre-Model 10 snubby, with a “post-war transition hammer,” and a 2” Colt Official Police. I am not advocating the act of cocking a defensive revolver, but, physical limitations can force some adaptations. I hope that I am quite a long way from being compelled to cock a revolver, defensively.
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Tallball
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I like my Beretta 84. Eventually as I age, the recoil will bother me.
The 32acp version is called the Model 81. They are very entertaining to shoot, very pleasant. I will be able to shoot mine after the recoil of the 84 is too much. Eventually I won't be able to work the slide of either one, but I'll be able to shoot the Model 81 until then.
A bunch of cheap surplus 81's came out a couple of years back. They are probably still cheaper now as a result than they will be in a few years.
My wife's 32 magnum revolver has a nice DA trigger. When I'm more ancient I may end up carrying it sometimes. If so, I'll grind off the hammer spur and maybe kinda wish that the colorful one wasn't such a bargain.
The 32acp version is called the Model 81. They are very entertaining to shoot, very pleasant. I will be able to shoot mine after the recoil of the 84 is too much. Eventually I won't be able to work the slide of either one, but I'll be able to shoot the Model 81 until then.
A bunch of cheap surplus 81's came out a couple of years back. They are probably still cheaper now as a result than they will be in a few years.
My wife's 32 magnum revolver has a nice DA trigger. When I'm more ancient I may end up carrying it sometimes. If so, I'll grind off the hammer spur and maybe kinda wish that the colorful one wasn't such a bargain.
jar
Contributing Member
As the wheel turns (actually both ways for me lately; widdershins and deosil).
Maybe it's just bold talk for a two eyed fat man but I have found myself returning to revolvers for concealed and discrete carry. Usually it's one of my snubs but sometimes the 4" barreled Colt "D" or "E" frame and S&W "K" frames get to go WalkAbout. These days there are quite nice IWB kydex holsters that are light, slightly slimmer than my leather ones and comfortable even when worn all day. I will admit the the Colt Police Positive 38S&W is far more pleasant to carry and shoot than the 38 Specials. Reloads of the shorter 38S&W are also slightly faster than 38 Special.
I can handle extended sessions firing standard pressure 38 Specials in my Colt Detective Special and Army Special or my S&W 19 and even the older all steel "J" framed Chiefs Special and Centennial but not with the new 642 Centennial. After firing anything more than five rounds with either hand the 642 left me hurting for days. It has gone off to a Forever Home. Fortunately the two old "J" frames are still tight as the day they came off the line. I will likely upgrade the grips on them to some slightly softer and fatter than the originals but other than that I can't see any foreseeable changes.
Maybe it's just bold talk for a two eyed fat man but I have found myself returning to revolvers for concealed and discrete carry. Usually it's one of my snubs but sometimes the 4" barreled Colt "D" or "E" frame and S&W "K" frames get to go WalkAbout. These days there are quite nice IWB kydex holsters that are light, slightly slimmer than my leather ones and comfortable even when worn all day. I will admit the the Colt Police Positive 38S&W is far more pleasant to carry and shoot than the 38 Specials. Reloads of the shorter 38S&W are also slightly faster than 38 Special.
I can handle extended sessions firing standard pressure 38 Specials in my Colt Detective Special and Army Special or my S&W 19 and even the older all steel "J" framed Chiefs Special and Centennial but not with the new 642 Centennial. After firing anything more than five rounds with either hand the 642 left me hurting for days. It has gone off to a Forever Home. Fortunately the two old "J" frames are still tight as the day they came off the line. I will likely upgrade the grips on them to some slightly softer and fatter than the originals but other than that I can't see any foreseeable changes.
232 posts in just about two weeks? Huh? Get a life and go shooting! They learn skills to survive. They learn how to rack the slide with one arm disabled, not the brain disabled.
JTHunter
Member
Slide - as has been suggested already, your friend might need to switch to a revolver. Something like the Ruger SP-101 in .38 Special might work better. It is only a 5-shot but the .38 Special ammo may be better than 9mm and is definitely better than .380 (I have both a .380 and the 101). My elderly parent had the 101 but could no longer cock it for SA use, even after adding a small piece of rubber tubing was put on the hammer. It was just a "house gun" as they never carried.
The_Quartermaster
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- Oct 17, 2022
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This was this past morning and way before you posted this nonsensical personal attack that I am replying to.
Did you run your gun or guns too, or just your keyboard? I bet it's the latter, all smack talkers are more talk then anything else.
Your argument isn't the reality and showing a disabled brain that refuses to comprehend what a dibalitating life altering occurrence that tRaInInG cannot cure, arthritis is the reality that the OP was asking a solution for. This isn't a drink water, keep moving thing. This is a problem to be realistically problem solved thing.
Jim Watson
Member
I don't know if it is typical, but my protege's Glock 44 has a heavier recoil spring than any of my centerfires.
It is not the .22 I want to downgrade to. My Plastic M&P is much easier to operate. The newish Sig P322 is not bad and gives you 20 tries. The one I shot at the store introduction was reliable. The Walther PPQ 22 did well, too.
I do not know of a compact .22 WRM auto.
Be advised that a rimfire takes a harder firing pin blow than a centerfire, most .22 revolvers have tougher double action pulls than a .32 or .38.
Me?
I am 77 and came out of yesterday's Practical Tactical match, 78 rounds of .38 Special from a S&W M67 with some hand soreness.
I will shoot the upcoming USPSA matches with a STI 9mm, taking the hit on Minor power factor to avert recoil.
I have gone to a Glock 43 or Ruger LC9s carried in a roomy pocket because I can't cinch up my belt enough to carry for longer than the duration of the above matches. 25 rounds from the Glock at GSSF Indoor is about all the fun I want, though. The J frame revolver is harder to get hits with than even a small auto. I think the Ruger LCR is a better choice if you particularly want a small revolver.
I have advocated leaving Grandma a loaded pistol which she only need aim and fire. All the worries about malfunctions and reloads are a second layer of low probability hazards.
It is not the .22 I want to downgrade to. My Plastic M&P is much easier to operate. The newish Sig P322 is not bad and gives you 20 tries. The one I shot at the store introduction was reliable. The Walther PPQ 22 did well, too.
I do not know of a compact .22 WRM auto.
Be advised that a rimfire takes a harder firing pin blow than a centerfire, most .22 revolvers have tougher double action pulls than a .32 or .38.
Me?
I am 77 and came out of yesterday's Practical Tactical match, 78 rounds of .38 Special from a S&W M67 with some hand soreness.
I will shoot the upcoming USPSA matches with a STI 9mm, taking the hit on Minor power factor to avert recoil.
I have gone to a Glock 43 or Ruger LC9s carried in a roomy pocket because I can't cinch up my belt enough to carry for longer than the duration of the above matches. 25 rounds from the Glock at GSSF Indoor is about all the fun I want, though. The J frame revolver is harder to get hits with than even a small auto. I think the Ruger LCR is a better choice if you particularly want a small revolver.
I have advocated leaving Grandma a loaded pistol which she only need aim and fire. All the worries about malfunctions and reloads are a second layer of low probability hazards.
Smaug
Member
I don’t know if the OP has made his choice yet, but I’m thinking of a nice little revolver.
S&W EZ might also be an option; they are VERY easy to grab and rack. Shame about the grip safety though. It’s not unnoticed like on a 1911; it takes a firm grip.
S&W EZ might also be an option; they are VERY easy to grab and rack. Shame about the grip safety though. It’s not unnoticed like on a 1911; it takes a firm grip.
herrwalther
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- 8,130
Many of my students over the past 5 years have been older than I am. For a general age range figure 45 to 80 to apply my semi-sage advice. I always start with what can you do now. Arthritis is degenerative. It will get worse over time. So the strongest they are in grip strength is now. I have my students practice on my firearms, some are easier to manipulate (slide pull, revolver cylinder release etc) than others. But I always use the firearm they can handle the best as a benchmark. If I have a range nearby that rents, all the better. More guns they can practice with.
Then I go over the proper technique for racking a slide. It is not just pulling back on the slide with two fingers (index and thumb) and pulling. No. It is pushing with your dominant hand while grasping over the slide with your support hand. I have had arthritic shooters manage to rack heavy-springed 1911s this way just by using the right technique.
After going over above I can recommend something. The two most common firearms I recommend if they can't rack anything I have with proper technique is either a Walther CCP or a S&W EZ firearm. Those two have the easiest springs to work with I have ever encountered. They are my last ditch recommendations for a service caliber semi-auto. As the CCP and M&P EZ are both available in 380 or 9mm. But I have also recommended the Beretta Tomcat in 32ACP for those dead set on a semi-auto. Even though they can be hard to find ammo for and can be unreliable.
If the arthritis is so bad that no semi-auto works, I recommend a revolver. No slide to rack, and a fairly large button to focus on to release the cylinder. There are many downsides to revolvers vs semi-autos that I won't go into, so there is a reason why revolvers rank low on my recommendation. The two big ones are long reload time and harder to shoot well, especially for new shooters. With arthritis you do become more recoil sensitive so no snub nose 357 Magnum makes my recommendation list. Likewise, lightweight 38s usually don't either. 327 Magnum or 22 Magnum revolvers are usually what I recommend if I get this far down the recommendation list.
Then I go over the proper technique for racking a slide. It is not just pulling back on the slide with two fingers (index and thumb) and pulling. No. It is pushing with your dominant hand while grasping over the slide with your support hand. I have had arthritic shooters manage to rack heavy-springed 1911s this way just by using the right technique.
After going over above I can recommend something. The two most common firearms I recommend if they can't rack anything I have with proper technique is either a Walther CCP or a S&W EZ firearm. Those two have the easiest springs to work with I have ever encountered. They are my last ditch recommendations for a service caliber semi-auto. As the CCP and M&P EZ are both available in 380 or 9mm. But I have also recommended the Beretta Tomcat in 32ACP for those dead set on a semi-auto. Even though they can be hard to find ammo for and can be unreliable.
If the arthritis is so bad that no semi-auto works, I recommend a revolver. No slide to rack, and a fairly large button to focus on to release the cylinder. There are many downsides to revolvers vs semi-autos that I won't go into, so there is a reason why revolvers rank low on my recommendation. The two big ones are long reload time and harder to shoot well, especially for new shooters. With arthritis you do become more recoil sensitive so no snub nose 357 Magnum makes my recommendation list. Likewise, lightweight 38s usually don't either. 327 Magnum or 22 Magnum revolvers are usually what I recommend if I get this far down the recommendation list.
I agree usually with Jim. Being 74 years old, I have moved to adding suspenders to my daily gear. That allows me to keep my pants up and not cinch my belt to death! Perry brand is my favorite.
They have an added benefit. In a match, we had a save the baby, which was a teddy bear. There was much wailing about how to carry the baby and do reloads. Many solutions would have been detrimental to infant health. Since the teddy-baby was light wt. - I simply tucked it under the suspenders.
Jim Watson
Member
Oh, yes, suspenders are the Codger's Friend.
johnjohn
Member
I haven't shot anything since Labor Day. Freak accident. I tore loose the bicep tendon in my left arm. It has been repaired and am now doing physical therapy. Another name for torture. But just gotta be thankful for what I have. At 79 no health issues (that I know of). So we shall see.
Yup, one of the steel ones. Or I was thinking an SP101 using 38's. At least as concealable as a .40 cal, has a realistic sized grip, and sufficient power.
As well the new Colt Cobra, .38 Spl apparently has a nice 8# double action and a sixth round.
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Old Dog
Member
It's got a superb DA pull and a pretty doggone SA pull as well. And it's quite light. Not sold on the fiber optic front sight, although it's great outdoors in natural light. Then there's the tip-up (don't have a pic of the 86, but here's the wife's Tomcat). The tip-up is the answer. Don't normally recommend .32 ACP, but the 86 in .380 is adequate.
I will second or third the S&W EZ pistols. My wife has arthritis in her wrists and has great difficulty working the slide of a GLOCK 19 or BERETTA 92. She tried the slide on the S&W .380ACP EZ and found it was no problem. She can also work the slide of my GLOCK 42. However, she can shoot the EZ more accurately than the GLOCK 42. Both are controllable for her, but the EZ is the winner in shooting qualification drills.
I have also found the .380ACP EZ pistol very easy to shoot. Much easier than my other .380ACP pistols, a BERETTA 84 and SIG 232. The SIG was more accurate, but required a traditional double action first shot, single action thereafter and to use the decocker when finished firing to make it safe. The EX, along with being much easier to rack the slide, has just one shooting mode, a GLOCK like single action and does not need to be decocked.
It is the best idea S&W has had in decades, in my opinion.
Jim
I have also found the .380ACP EZ pistol very easy to shoot. Much easier than my other .380ACP pistols, a BERETTA 84 and SIG 232. The SIG was more accurate, but required a traditional double action first shot, single action thereafter and to use the decocker when finished firing to make it safe. The EX, along with being much easier to rack the slide, has just one shooting mode, a GLOCK like single action and does not need to be decocked.
It is the best idea S&W has had in decades, in my opinion.
Jim
Old Dog,
I have a BERETTA model 86 pistol in .380ACP and it is completely unreliable. I have owned BERETTA model 81 and 82 pistols in .32ACP and BERETTA 84 in .380ACP and they all worked great. They shot well, were not picky about ammo and very reliable. Not so the model 86. I have shot it only twice since it broke on both occasions with a total of 41 rounds through it. I cannot recommend this pistol as anything other than a collector items to be looked at and never fired.
Both times, it was a spring which broke.
All BERETTA tip up barrel pistols in .25ACP and .32ACP have proven to be fully reliable and excellent pistols for the purpose designed, but the .380ACP proved to much for BERETTA and the tip up barrel.
Jim
.
I have a BERETTA model 86 pistol in .380ACP and it is completely unreliable. I have owned BERETTA model 81 and 82 pistols in .32ACP and BERETTA 84 in .380ACP and they all worked great. They shot well, were not picky about ammo and very reliable. Not so the model 86. I have shot it only twice since it broke on both occasions with a total of 41 rounds through it. I cannot recommend this pistol as anything other than a collector items to be looked at and never fired.
Both times, it was a spring which broke.
All BERETTA tip up barrel pistols in .25ACP and .32ACP have proven to be fully reliable and excellent pistols for the purpose designed, but the .380ACP proved to much for BERETTA and the tip up barrel.
Jim
.
This old fart carries an S&W M69 in a shoulder holster.
(I have enough trouble keeping my sweatpants over my big belly w/out having to worry about extra weight dragging them down.)
I don't feel at all undergunned because the .44mag M69 only has 5 rounds. If I feel that's not enough, I'll stick a shot into my oxygen tank & take all of us out......
.
(I have enough trouble keeping my sweatpants over my big belly w/out having to worry about extra weight dragging them down.)
I don't feel at all undergunned because the .44mag M69 only has 5 rounds. If I feel that's not enough, I'll stick a shot into my oxygen tank & take all of us out......
.Wasn't that O2 tank tested on show with the two special effects guys - Mythbusters. All the tank did was spin around. NO boom!
As an old fart, I can still rack a 1911 or Glock pretty well. Still handle the recoil. Trigger pull on my SW revolvers is manageable. These are center fire though. I found the trigger on a SW 317 22 LR atrocious and I sold it.
As an old fart, I can still rack a 1911 or Glock pretty well. Still handle the recoil. Trigger pull on my SW revolvers is manageable. These are center fire though. I found the trigger on a SW 317 22 LR atrocious and I sold it.
i’ve never been a recoil junkie, i’ve had a number of the handguns mentioned here and i collect social security benefits, so here are my random thoughts.
s&w shield ez. i have both the 380acp and 9mm versions. the former is noticeably the easier shooter but if you want to shoot alot, 9mm ammo is noticeably cheaper. i am not a huge fan of the grip safety but it forces one to not limp-wrist. i sandpapered the grips a bit on both. that said, either one is a great choice.
taurus and beretta tip-up semiauto pistols. i’ve had both 22lr and 25acp. the beretta was unreliable. the taurus works. you won’t be reloading a fresh mag as racking the slide is impossible, leaving you just 6-7 small caliber rounds out of a short sight radius barrel, which isn’t optimal.
j-frame 38sp revolvers. mechanically simple and reliable. fatter grips and reduced-recoil ammo offers relief. practice with speedstrip and speedloaders offers some speed.
k-frame 38sp revolvers might be too heavy to be a comfortable, walking-around ccw, but excellent at home or in a vehicle.
now it’s time to suggest what many folks don’t want to hear: 22lr semiauto pistol. fast reloads. lots of rounds on target from lots of pleasant, inexpensive practice. stick with solid platforms and solid ammo, and mechanical reliability is a much lower worry. my own choice is a ruger sr22 loaded with cci minimags. there will likely come a time sooner than i wish when it becomes my primary ccw.
s&w shield ez. i have both the 380acp and 9mm versions. the former is noticeably the easier shooter but if you want to shoot alot, 9mm ammo is noticeably cheaper. i am not a huge fan of the grip safety but it forces one to not limp-wrist. i sandpapered the grips a bit on both. that said, either one is a great choice.
taurus and beretta tip-up semiauto pistols. i’ve had both 22lr and 25acp. the beretta was unreliable. the taurus works. you won’t be reloading a fresh mag as racking the slide is impossible, leaving you just 6-7 small caliber rounds out of a short sight radius barrel, which isn’t optimal.
j-frame 38sp revolvers. mechanically simple and reliable. fatter grips and reduced-recoil ammo offers relief. practice with speedstrip and speedloaders offers some speed.
k-frame 38sp revolvers might be too heavy to be a comfortable, walking-around ccw, but excellent at home or in a vehicle.
now it’s time to suggest what many folks don’t want to hear: 22lr semiauto pistol. fast reloads. lots of rounds on target from lots of pleasant, inexpensive practice. stick with solid platforms and solid ammo, and mechanical reliability is a much lower worry. my own choice is a ruger sr22 loaded with cci minimags. there will likely come a time sooner than i wish when it becomes my primary ccw.
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