Ditchtiger
Member
any Hi-Point ever made.
Continuation of "What is the most dead solid reliable pistol autoloader design ever?"
- Thread starter skeeter_08
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sohcgt2
Member
You must mean the ones that have "Property of United States Government" engraved on the side.
skeeter_08
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My new Sig P220 ist ein sehr ausgezeichnet pistole!
Confederate
Member
Well, despite the love that many people have for their 1911s, it's just not one of the pistols that can, out of the box, attain the ultra-reliability ratings of modern pistols. Neither it nor the Hi-Power can compete with the newer designs that really began with the Beretta 92. Neither did very well in the military trials.
But the 92 had its own problems, as we saw. The second generation up of S&W pistols seemed to be the first of the ultra-reliables. Then came the Sigs and the Glocks. I used to think that the steeper the ramps, the more unreliable the guns, but the S&W 645 sure cured me of that notion. Still, I think the Beretta's lack of an ejection port and its straight feeding from the magazine into the chamber certainly adds to its reliability. As guns made the ejection ports larger and reduced the angle of the feeding ramps, jams became fewer and fewer. Still, it bothered me to see Kimber 1911s malfunctioning so many times on firing lines everywhere.
We know a great deal about what makes the 1911 malfunction and decent gunsmiths know how to take an out of the box 1911 and make it extremely reliable. Manufacturers, however, were able to design the problems out of them without costly after market fixes.
With good .22LR ammo, I think the Ruger Mark II/III pistols are frightfully reliable. I see very few jams with these guns, but I do hear repeated BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG coming from various stalls where the Rugers are being used, and most of the failures are the ammunition, not the gun failing to feed or eject.
I don't believe I've EVER seen a Beretta 92 jam, and I've owned a number. I've had a couple of 659s fail to feed with badly reloaded ammo, but never with factory or decently manufactured rounds. The difference is that the Beretta seems to feed anything you can get in the magazine.
The unfailing Beretta functioning also is there with my little 950 and my 21, but the latter isn't a cheap date. It has a fussy pallet. It won't eat just any .22LR. If you use fresh hi-vel CCI Mini-Mags or Yellow Jackets, they just keep spitting lead out like there's no tomorrow. I also wouldn't push it too far by shooting too many rounds. My little Jennings J-22 is flawless as long as it's clean. Getting back to Beretta, though, their Tomcat autos almost always fracture and crap out. No one should rely on them because they can fail at any moment and then they begin jamming once a hairline fracture develops. That can be bad if it happens while you're shooting.
Glocks are certainly a modern marvel, though limp-wristing them can make them jam. I will not carry the damn things with a round up the snoot and don't like carrying them without cocking them.
Having said all this, the Browning Hi-Power is fully reliable enough to bet one's life on; still, it's not quite in the league of the more modern designs, as I see it. It's a fair weather pistol and functions just fine when it's cared for. When it's subjected to grit, dirt, dust, and neglect, it just doesn't hold up to it as well as some of the other, more modern, pistolas.
In the end, it's hard to say what is best. If I had to absolutely put my life on the line, there are many to choose from, but in a new pistol, I'd have to go with the Beretta. I do have questions about the long term reliability of them. Some say that civilian pistols will never develop those problems, nor will the Italian versions of the pistol. I just don't know if they can last for as long as some of the others.
But the 92 had its own problems, as we saw. The second generation up of S&W pistols seemed to be the first of the ultra-reliables. Then came the Sigs and the Glocks. I used to think that the steeper the ramps, the more unreliable the guns, but the S&W 645 sure cured me of that notion. Still, I think the Beretta's lack of an ejection port and its straight feeding from the magazine into the chamber certainly adds to its reliability. As guns made the ejection ports larger and reduced the angle of the feeding ramps, jams became fewer and fewer. Still, it bothered me to see Kimber 1911s malfunctioning so many times on firing lines everywhere.
We know a great deal about what makes the 1911 malfunction and decent gunsmiths know how to take an out of the box 1911 and make it extremely reliable. Manufacturers, however, were able to design the problems out of them without costly after market fixes.
With good .22LR ammo, I think the Ruger Mark II/III pistols are frightfully reliable. I see very few jams with these guns, but I do hear repeated BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG coming from various stalls where the Rugers are being used, and most of the failures are the ammunition, not the gun failing to feed or eject.
I don't believe I've EVER seen a Beretta 92 jam, and I've owned a number. I've had a couple of 659s fail to feed with badly reloaded ammo, but never with factory or decently manufactured rounds. The difference is that the Beretta seems to feed anything you can get in the magazine.
The unfailing Beretta functioning also is there with my little 950 and my 21, but the latter isn't a cheap date. It has a fussy pallet. It won't eat just any .22LR. If you use fresh hi-vel CCI Mini-Mags or Yellow Jackets, they just keep spitting lead out like there's no tomorrow. I also wouldn't push it too far by shooting too many rounds. My little Jennings J-22 is flawless as long as it's clean. Getting back to Beretta, though, their Tomcat autos almost always fracture and crap out. No one should rely on them because they can fail at any moment and then they begin jamming once a hairline fracture develops. That can be bad if it happens while you're shooting.
Glocks are certainly a modern marvel, though limp-wristing them can make them jam. I will not carry the damn things with a round up the snoot and don't like carrying them without cocking them.
Having said all this, the Browning Hi-Power is fully reliable enough to bet one's life on; still, it's not quite in the league of the more modern designs, as I see it. It's a fair weather pistol and functions just fine when it's cared for. When it's subjected to grit, dirt, dust, and neglect, it just doesn't hold up to it as well as some of the other, more modern, pistolas.
In the end, it's hard to say what is best. If I had to absolutely put my life on the line, there are many to choose from, but in a new pistol, I'd have to go with the Beretta. I do have questions about the long term reliability of them. Some say that civilian pistols will never develop those problems, nor will the Italian versions of the pistol. I just don't know if they can last for as long as some of the others.
christcorp
Member
I love my Springfield Armory 1911A1. Have had it for 23 years. I'll never get rid of it. I love my S&W. I love everything I have. But of the close to 100 guns I've had at one time or another, I'd be seriously doing a disservice to anyone actually trying to learn and make a decision using this thread; if I chose any other gun on the PLANET as being the most reliable other than the "SigSauer P220 45acp". It simply IS the most reliable gun. It will eat anything. I've never known one to not function and fire. Even with hollow points, SWC, and 10 round after market extension magazines. I'd be heart broken to ever have to lose or sell my 1911A1, Walther, FEG, S&W, Ruger. Hell, I'd even miss my Taurus a little bit; and it's a POS. But selling the SigSauer P220 would never be an option. I'd starve first. I'd make my wife starve first. Now I can't speak for the newer models. Just like many manufacturers who were the standard for years, and then they changed in quality; I don't know about Sig. Mine is a West German 1989 vintage. But I can say that SigSauer is in a class all it's own. There's a lot of good and great guns out there. But when you buy a Sig P220, you are paying for quality. And that reputation has definitely been earned. But then again, that's why a good used P220 will cost you around $600 and work up to $1000 without batting an eye. Yes, there are 1911A1 in the $1000 range also, but they're usually your collector colts, original springfields, major mods, etc... I love my 1911A1; but the most reliable goes to the SigSauer P220.
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