Lupinus
Member
You've been watching batman haven't you?
Cooperate and you'll be ok.
- Thread starter steveracer
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I vote for cooperation, as long as you judge it is in your best interest.
There is no way to know if the thug that mugs you or trys to carjack you is going to harm you. He may not, or he may, just because he can.
If it is safer to shoot him then to cooperate, then shoot him. And keep shooting him until the danger he poses to you is past.
I figure it this way. You have no way of knowing what he will do if you cooperate. Its a crap shoot either way, and if it comes down to it, I would just as soon take my chances as go down for the count without a murmer.
OTOH, in my state, I am prohibited from effective self-defense, so chances are I will cooperate.
There is no way to know if the thug that mugs you or trys to carjack you is going to harm you. He may not, or he may, just because he can.
If it is safer to shoot him then to cooperate, then shoot him. And keep shooting him until the danger he poses to you is past.
I figure it this way. You have no way of knowing what he will do if you cooperate. Its a crap shoot either way, and if it comes down to it, I would just as soon take my chances as go down for the count without a murmer.
OTOH, in my state, I am prohibited from effective self-defense, so chances are I will cooperate.
Superreverb
Member
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
You guys are the type of folks at the opposite end of the spectrum who fail to understand that fighting back may get you killed, especially when you are at the disadvantage. Fighting back when you don't feel you have a realistic chance of surviving is just plain stupid. Custer was brave and he got himself and all his men killed. His men had to follow his orders. You are not one of Custer's soldiers and you can modify your game plan as you see fit as per the circumstances.
Compliance does not make you a coward if compliance is what saves your life. What is all this ego crap anyway about being a coward. Is your ego so fragile that surviving being mugged by giving up your wallet is enough to make you feel like you are some sort of spineless infant?
Yes, evil fourishes when good men do nothing, but it flourishes even faster when good men are dead! That's one of those mathematic no-brainers.
I am all for fighting back, so long as it makes sense. I am also all for bolting from the situation or complying so long as it makes sense to do so. I am not willing to die for my wallet and I am not willing to die because some guy wrote a popular paper that somehow might label me as a coward because I didn't stupidly fight back in a fight that would result in my death. When it comes down to the bottom line of the situation of a robbery/mugging, it isn't about good and evil, it is about whether or not I get to go home to my family at the end of the evening. That means I win if I am alive and well. I can make more money. I do it every day. I can't get my life back.
There is no one answer to how you should respond for every robbery or for every moment of every robbery. Calls for of all out compliance or all out fighting back are stupid because they fail to consider the context of the robbery and every robbery is a unique event.
RNB65
Member
Isn't that what the 9/11 hijackers said?
FPrice
Member
At one time about 20 years ago that's almost all I had to my name, a rather beat-up used car which allowed me to get to work. It was stolen one night while I was at work. I didn't have the money or the credit to replace it. Luckily I got it back the next day but with over $1000 in damages.
If I had been at the scene and been armed I alomost certainly wouldn't have started blasting away but I think I would have challenged them to back away and leave peacefully.
Sometimes a POS car might be your lifeline.
Lupinus
Member
cooperate while it benifits you to do so, resist when you can, if you find out they are going to kill you reguardless go down fighting and take as many of the bastards with you as you can
as simple as I can put it
as simple as I can put it
Lucky
Member
Sounds silly to expect good things to come from a bad person doing wrong to you. I agree with the first posters, why not expect them to kill you regardless, because they sure aren't making a good first impression! One of the first things my mother taught me was absolutely not to co-operate if assaulted in any way, period. Anyone who teaches their kids anything else is doing them no favours.
Think of this, the hypothetical situation put out is that the attacker only wants your money, but they'll kill you if you resist.
To me they don't sound like a nice person, they sound like someone who would kill you over very little. They might just as easily kill you if you run away, or if you see their face, or if you aren't making eye contact, or if you are making eye contact.
?????Do you really want to bet your life on this killer showing you mercy?????
Think of this, the hypothetical situation put out is that the attacker only wants your money, but they'll kill you if you resist.
To me they don't sound like a nice person, they sound like someone who would kill you over very little. They might just as easily kill you if you run away, or if you see their face, or if you aren't making eye contact, or if you are making eye contact.
?????Do you really want to bet your life on this killer showing you mercy?????
Hands of blue
Member
What I really like is people on a different forum that I post on were saying they would cooperate so they would not get hurt (like that is some kind of guarantee). What is even better is they were they were all saying they would do their best to look at them so they could describe and ID them for police. Yes no criminal will kill you for that.
psychophipps
Member
Well, you can't just hand your weapon to some stranger without following basic safety precautions.
*Me* OK, it's locked open. The chamber is clear. Magazine is out. "Ok, buddy, here you go. Buddy? You Ok down there?"
*BG* Spurt! Choke! Spurt! Gasp! Spurt! Wheeze!
Very poor tatse, I know, but I figure I have to have at least one raving gun spaz post here....
Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )
steve635
Member
Put aside, for a moment, the outrageousness of the suggestion that a criminal who proffers lethal violence should be treated as if he has instituted a new social contract: "I will not hurt or kill you if you give me what I want."
This is from "A Nation of Cowards" and it is brilliant.
We quote the 2nd Amendment and say we would stand against tyrants, but we cower in fear to the thug with a knife?
This is from "A Nation of Cowards" and it is brilliant.
We quote the 2nd Amendment and say we would stand against tyrants, but we cower in fear to the thug with a knife?
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Cooperation
Cooperate like John Wayne (J. B. Books) did in his last movie, "The Shootist", when he was being robbed by a scruffy highwayman. To wit:
"Here's all my money...AND A LITTLE SOMETHIN' EXTRA!" *ka pow*
Cooperate like John Wayne (J. B. Books) did in his last movie, "The Shootist", when he was being robbed by a scruffy highwayman. To wit:
"Here's all my money...AND A LITTLE SOMETHIN' EXTRA!" *ka pow*
It ONLY makes sense to cooperate as a TACTIC.
Perhaps a hammerless snubby that could be fired from within a pocket or purse would be the best thing to have here?
You also do not have to keep photos of loved ones, "social security" cards, or even an ID card in your wallet. I have a very slim wallet with my ID, and a few credit cards, and proof of insurance in it, and use a money clip for cash (though I do not carry large ammounts, or big bills).
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/robbery_types.html
Perhaps a hammerless snubby that could be fired from within a pocket or purse would be the best thing to have here?
You also do not have to keep photos of loved ones, "social security" cards, or even an ID card in your wallet. I have a very slim wallet with my ID, and a few credit cards, and proof of insurance in it, and use a money clip for cash (though I do not carry large ammounts, or big bills).
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/robbery_types.html
ctdonath
Member
FBI stats also show that armed resistance cuts your casualty rate in HALF from that of compliance.
Lupinus
Member
Ovid, my grandfather always used to carry a good bit of cash....he didn't like credit and bank cards so he carried two money clips on him.
One had spending money, just what you would use at the gas station, the store, etc. The second had the big bills and quite a few of them and a rubber band wrapped about it so he could tell the difference. If push came to shove and he was in a situation where he had to give over the money, the robber would get the small one and he figured if the robber found out about the big one he would be dead by that time and it wouldn't matter much.
I carry a money clip on me to, it is to easy to steal a wallet from the rear pocket but a lot harder to reach into someones front pocket and fish out a money clip. Course I only carry one....I aint got enough money to make it worth carrying two
One had spending money, just what you would use at the gas station, the store, etc. The second had the big bills and quite a few of them and a rubber band wrapped about it so he could tell the difference. If push came to shove and he was in a situation where he had to give over the money, the robber would get the small one and he figured if the robber found out about the big one he would be dead by that time and it wouldn't matter much.
I carry a money clip on me to, it is to easy to steal a wallet from the rear pocket but a lot harder to reach into someones front pocket and fish out a money clip. Course I only carry one....I aint got enough money to make it worth carrying two
It's not THAT cut & dried. It IS true that your best bet for remaining uninjured is to resist with a firearm. However, other methods of armed resistance (such as defending yourself with a knife) can increase your chances of injury compared to compliance.
http://www.skepticfiles.org/conspire/gun2doc.htm
Here are the results for a study based on the years 1979 to 1985
Self Defense Method Against Robbery vs Percent Injured
Gun--->17.4%
Other weapon--->22.0%
No resistance--->24.7%
Other measures--->26.5%
Threaten or reason with attacker--->30.7%
Nonviolent resistance and evasion--->34.9%
Knife--->40.3%
Tried to get help or frighten attacker--->48.9%
Physical force--->50.8%
Self Defense Method Against Assault vs Percent Injured
Gun--->12.1%
Other measures--->20.7%
Threaten or reason with attacker--->24.7%
Other weapon--->25.1%
Nonviolent resistance and evasion--->25.5%
No resistance--->27.3%
Knife--->29.5%
Tried to get help or frighten attacker--->40.1%
Physical force--->52.1%
IMO, it's borderline criminal for the police to imply that compliance is always the best course of action.
Any tactic, applied mindlessly, is likely to have unpleasant results.
The fact is that resisting with a firearm gives you the best chance for remaining uninjured--statistically speaking. That should NOT be confused with advising a person to immediately resist with a firearm in any and all criminal attacks regardless of the circumstances and without carefully assessing the situation.
Unfortunately, the police ARE making a BLANKET recommendation that regardless of the situation or circumstances one should comply to avoid injury.
steveracer
Member
I didn't start this to argue about tactics.
I started this to make sure I was still in my right mind by being disgusted with the "you'll be ok" part of the statement.
I agree totally that cooperation as a tactic is proper and prudent. It's not cooperation at all, in my mind, and therefore doesn't fit the category. Let's not argue semantics.
He's got the drop on you? You chuck your wallet, he picks it up, and you clear leather and smoke him? Great.
He puts you in the trunk without a pat-down, and when he opens the trunk to kill you, you empty your CCW into him? Great.
You tell him "no, you !" and commence to a charge? You're braver than me, and dumber, but your head is in the right place.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong to do it "your way". I'm saying, in my long and drawn-out manner, that as long as you plan to STOP HIM SOMEHOW, you're absolutely in the right, and I salute you.
I started this to make sure I was still in my right mind by being disgusted with the "you'll be ok" part of the statement.
I agree totally that cooperation as a tactic is proper and prudent. It's not cooperation at all, in my mind, and therefore doesn't fit the category. Let's not argue semantics.
He's got the drop on you? You chuck your wallet, he picks it up, and you clear leather and smoke him? Great.
He puts you in the trunk without a pat-down, and when he opens the trunk to kill you, you empty your CCW into him? Great.
You tell him "no, you !" and commence to a charge? You're braver than me, and dumber, but your head is in the right place.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong to do it "your way". I'm saying, in my long and drawn-out manner, that as long as you plan to STOP HIM SOMEHOW, you're absolutely in the right, and I salute you.
JMusic
member
Well , Hell. Well said
Jim
Jim
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