Someone Pulls a Gun On You and You're Unarmed!

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7YDs or closer, jump him, kill. 7YDs or farther, run like there is no tomorrow, (because there may not be). This is the "Do Or Die" time. If you don't beat feet, (kind of hard within 21 feet), you'll be dead. If you take him on (21 feet or less), you still have a chance of death, but at least you have a chance. Cram the weapon in his mouth, beat his face in and pull the trigger. Kill him before you're killed. The strong dog always wins, unless the throat is ripped out, which is why you do if first. Kill, (or run fast), or be killed. Just remember, once you commit, act as though your decision is your last. After all, any action you take within the next 20 seconds will define your life. Do you kill? Do you get maimed? Do you run? The decision is yours and yours alone. Just remember that you must live your life for the entire duration of what remains regardless of which choice you decide. Choose an option, and be content in dying with it; because you will. Could you live paralized, how about knowing you killed a man? How about knowing you should have killed him to save your family?

How about because you were too chicken ***** to deal with the assault, and your son and wife,(after being raped), were killed because of your cowardice or bravery? Whatever you choose, make sure you can live with it for the rest of your natural life. If you will ever regret your actions, don't do it. The decision is yours, and yours alone. Decide wisely.
 
In MHO 21 ft is a bit too distant for a weapons take away. You really do not want to be moving your feet and hands at the same time this slows you down. Keep in mind the attacker is usualy very confident that they control the situation. Use this to your advantage. You will NOT learn how to take weapons away in a 2 day seminar, it takes practice. Having the self control you need in a real attack is something that is very hard to teach. All this will play on IF you should try to disarm another person. Try to be aware at all times. Its easier to not get into one of these situations than it is to get out of one. Alot of help I know but for those who have lived through these situations can attest luck was on their side.:)
Jim
 
yeah, let's see you try and take a gun that's already been drawn away from 21 feet. **** let's see you try it from 10 feet.

That's a good way to get shot.
 
Your mindset better be one of "I am going to do this", not one of hesitation or doubt you'll win. Thats the cerebral side.
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Good words Brownie. I agree 110%. Didn't want to turn my post into a book since I was at work but I have the day off now. Yeahhhh me :D

I had an action plan. It just wasn't required. I'm no mind reader. My go flag was to see resolve. Such things as a narrowing or widening of the eyes, a hunch of the shoulder, stiffening of the arm, drawing a deeper breath, or a frown would have told me it was time to move. I let instinctual reaction feed off the situation. It flows well, it's powerful and quick (think woman lifting car off baby here).

There was no cover for a hundred yards in any direction. The gun was just out of my reach without a stretch and being held in his right hand, His left arm at his side. He was squared off, I was semi-bladed.

Plan was to get my face out of line with muzzle while driving past the gun into his ribs knocking him back and down going for control of the gun. My intention was to get a knee on his throat so he'd have something to think about besides what I was doing to his hand and wrist. Main uncertainty was traction. I judged it to be mediocre. If traction had not been a concern I may not have stalled. This wasn't hesitation due to unfounded doubt. I'd lost a fight prior to this due to poor footing. It wasn't going to be allowed to happen again, especially in this situation.

That freind came out of nowhere to vouch for me. That's why I say only fear not having friends. They can and will save your butt.

Here's a neat example. A buddy of mine once dared a badguy who was threatning to shoot us to shoot him. My first impression was thanks! :D Now that may sound like a bad tactic but believe it or not he ended up with a very sincere apology. I think the sudden appearance of my knife at Mr. badguy's throat from behind had a lot to do with it. If my bud had not been consuming the badguy's focus by begging him over and over to "shoot me, go ahead and shoot me" I'd not have been able to work my way out of the line of fire.

That was a fun one for me. Most adrenaline I've ever experienced! The guy's lucky his head isn't on display somewhere as an extreme example of what a buck folder is capable of. It's the closest I ever came to killing anyone and I would have done it except this guy became extremely compliant when that knife snapped open next to his ear. Getting compliance is a great feeling eh?
 
how close?? how hard do you punch?
Don't put your finger in the barrel. myth busters totally proved that to be a myth.
The thing that scares me is that now adays they shoot you even if you give them your last ten bucks.
there are moves you can learn at close range.
I know one. if he has the gun at exactly the right distance and hieght I should be good. but seriouslly ive tryed it in practice it would work.
if you learn stuff like that and you practice each a thousand times it will become a reaction. you won't have to think about it.
 
Fact is, if they just want you dead, they won't ask for your cooperation, they'll just hole ya. Take off - they don't want attention or they wouldn't be playing this game. To be shot down in the street is better than what they have in store for you in a private place with tools and time.

Biker
 
If your age is over 40 and he is in close fake a sudden heart attack and if it distracts him enough to get the gun off of you swat it aside and take one of your fingers and shove it as far as you can in one of his eye sockets .
Kick , punch , bite do whatever you can to stay alive and kill the POS with what you were born with or if you can take his gun and shove it down his throat and start firing it .

Get po'd get in a rage and stay alive no matter what you have to do .
 
If your age is over 40 and he is in close fake a sudden heart attack and if it distracts him enough to get the gun off of you swat it aside and take one of your fingers and shove it as far as you can in one of his eye sockets.
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You ever tried an eye gouge against a person fighting back. If not set the hell down.

chris
 
OK, let's say that someone pulls a gun on you and you don't have a gun? What would you do? What do you do?
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Why I would wait until he blinked, then when his eyes reopened, he'd be like, "Where did he go?!" I'd be gone from that standing position in an instant having lept into a full axle triple flip with the dargon's talon poised to take the gun from him. In a split second the gun would be stripped away and I'd be standing there in praying mantis unloading, cleaning and polishing the weapon.

Now this is where the real fight begins. I'm a gonna sit him down and discuss what matters: Gun safety for one, how it's a "no no" to be pointing it at others, and the importance of having a good steady job. Turning his life around from a life of crime to one of hard work and honesty would be my goal.

:D
 
The only place I don't carry is where I can't carry Work:what: so I am at the mercy of the evil BG while there:fire:My only defence is all that Acid I have in my work area, so I guess he would have to eat a bunch of that when he looks away for any reason.:evil:
 
You ever tried an eye gouge against a person fighting back. If not set the hell down.

chris
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NO as a matter of fact I haven't , I consider maiming someone by blinding them in one of their eyes a tactic used only for a life threatening encounter .

I doubt that very many people here have encountered a situation where there lives have been in danger in hand to hand combat , including you .

Take your own advice and go sit the hell down and try reading my entire post , better yet try understanding it , the whole point of faking a heart attack is to distract them , if it worked they wouldn't be fighting , now would they GI Joe ?
 
You ever tried an eye gouge against a person fighting back. If not set the hell down.

chris
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Yep, sure have. In fact, I did more than try. I succeeded. Ever heard a wounded rabbit scream? That's how he sounded. And your point is?

Just for detail. We were on the ground grappling. I was on top. He attempted a gouge at my eye and I moved my head away. I then returned the maneuver. With his head on the ground, he couldn't move his head away. He was still clawing at my eye. When my thumb slipped into the inner canthus of his eye, he stopped clawing at my eye and began to gently pat my face and scream. I reached over with my left hand and applied light pressure to his eye while I withdrew my thumb. I was afraid that without the pressure, his eye might follow my thumb. That took the fight out of both of us. He quit and I was very glad he did so. He had had enough and I had too. I left quickly and he stumbled off with his hands pressed to his eye.
 
My point was defaulting to a very _low_ probability of success move isn't a good default.

I’ve never had an opportunity to use one in an actual fight, however I’ve attempted them in sparring more than a few times. (We wear eye pro) Just getting your hand onto a fully resisting opponent face why standing up can be hard if they have any skill. The fine targeting required to pull it off on a bouncing, bobbing and weaving opponent is even harder. You start throwing in the stress of actual combat and the resultant loss of coordination and fine motor control.

Being in a clinch as you where Bryon changes the dynamics greatly compared to the explosive movement required to effect a disarm. I imagine the success rate is very very high when you do land them.

I have been involved in personal conflict in a scenario very much like this one twice, however both times it was a knife, both times it was an entirely h2h solution to the problem. Neither time did I utilize any “distraction” although I see their place. Both times I attacked why they where still talking. Action beats reaction, the ooda loop, and all of that crap.

And being drunk when I posted that probally is why I sounded like an *******. Although I am an ******* so maybe that was just me.
 
If the BG is simply trying to rob you, throw your money run away, EVEN IF YOUR ARMED. I don't care how good you think you are, if a BG got the drop on you and has a weapon pointed against your head if you fight or draw you will get shot. Is the $20 in your wallet worth that? A gun fight is like a knife fight, if you get into one expect to get shot. Brownies avoidance move is similar to a move Bruce Lee and other martial artist taught for over 40 years. Problem is if your not as fast as Bruce Lee you will take a bullet in the arm or shoulder. It is not as easy as it looks when it is the real thing. Unfortunately young hoods today might just keep shooting at you instead of shooting once and running away.

I'll only fight back if the BG wants to do something more than just a simple robbery. If they want more than money and there is no easy escape then I fight back and take my chances. If I'm not armed and I can't run, then my top priority is to close the distance, get the BGs gun and try not get shot. If I can get my hands on his weapon and keep it pointed away from me I'm in good shape. If I can't wrestle the weapon out of his hands I know that 99% of all semi auto pistols have magazine release button in the same spot. Once I drop the magazine then his is down to one round and if I can rack the slide or pull the trigger, his weapon is now empty and its now a chance of a pistol whipping and not getting shot.
 
Lonestar,

You don't have to be as fast as Master Lee to pull it off. You do have to be trained in how to effect the gun grab and move off line at the same time as well as have the agility to get there. The mindset to make the move is the real big hurdle [ JMusic's self control comment ] for most though, many will not have the confidence to even attempt it to begin with.

You could take a bullet to the arm or shoulder, but if the gun was to your head, you had not business making any move. That would mean the gun went from one positional/height to a lower one and you didn't have a clue on technique.

You could also just be shot in the head while complying. All bets are off when the muzzle is pointed onto your body anywhere. Could well be a mistake on the guys part, might be nervous and jacked up on something, unfamiliar with the weapon, startled by something, any number of things that get him to pull that trigger even if he was not planning on it right then. The problem, of course, is the gun was pointed onto your body and you got shot, no matter what his intentions were or the reason for the gun going off.

Long ago, we were taught the mindset that if a muzzle was pointed at you, you moved, got the gun off your body. The longer it is on your body, the longer you can take a bullet. The expression mentors used was "as long as the muzzle is on you, you are theoretically dead" and so getting the gun off your body is paramount to staying alive in theory and in practical application. They then taught us how to do just that, both from the front and rear.

I would not suggest to anyone to make any move. Thats a decision they make on their own, right or wrong, trained or untrained. I can only speak for myself and I'll be making a move to get the guns muzzle off my body as expediently as possible.

Nothing is easy in life, including the decision to allow someone to muzzle you for any length of time while committing some crime against you. Hard decisions in a hard world. I didn't learn what I know in these types of situations in the sterile environ of a dojo with wiling partners. I can say that I've used what I was taught some 25 years ago somewhere over 1000 times on a multitude of students and brother officers in demonstrations. After the first time, they knew what was coming and still could not beat the action with their reaction to get a round on me.

I've gone to using 38 blanks of late in the drills. That ups the pucker factor to some extent as they will cause serious injury and are capable of causing death. In all the times of running these disarms when the gun is stuck on me or within arms reach, I've been nailed 3 times, all by the same student on the same day and all with blanks while the muzzle was touching my body. I know what is feels like to dig powder particles out of my gut and chest.

3 out of over 1000 times in 25 years. That percentage is quite low, and thats with the threat knowing I was going to move on them and expecting something to happen every time which the real threats will not be expecting, thereby reducing the reaction times.

You just don't know their intentions on the streets while being muzzled with a gun. I prefer not to put my faith in some threats goodness of his heart not to shoot me even if I comply with his demands. I'm not alive by accident, but by training for the real world and the mindset that if I'm going to go, it will because of something I did, not something they did while I hung out with the hope and prayer they let me live for some reason.

Going for a mag release, racking the slide, etc is not something I'll ever try myself while wrestling with a loaded firearm on the streets. It's get it off the body, keep control once the gun is off the body so it doesn't get repointed on me, and get it done. If the gun is not within your immediate reach, you'll have to decide based on the circumstances what the possible options are at that time for you. One of the options is NOT to stand there and be muzzled any longer than is necessary, you control your fate and do something or you let the threat control your fate and do nothing, hoping he is gratious enough to let you live even if you comply. I prefer the former to the latter in these matters.

Brownie
 
@crofrog:

Yeah, I probably would get shot at. But I figure if somebody pulls a weapon, they darn well intend to use it. Inside of 10 feet, it would be easier. Considering I always have a knive on my person, it would take 2 steps and a lunge to make contact with the blade upon the BG. I may die, but at least I'll inflict serious injury to BG, and have some choice in how I die. Who's to say that they won't shoot me after they get my money, (or I throw my wallet), anyhow? I picked 21 feet as maximum engagement distance, because it's kind of hard to evade them from that distance, but still close enough you might have a chance to win a fight.

Yeah I know, "never bring a knive to a gunfight", but a knive is better than fists isn't it?
 
k_semler said:
but a knive is better than fists isn't it
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No, not when you spend precious time you could be getting the weapon out of the BG's hands fumbling with a knife instead. That'll get you shot with your knife on the floor.

He's got a gun on you and you then try to draw a knife and attack? You're so far behind the curve already and you decide to do something that puts you further behind like try to get a knife or a gun out? No, No, NO! Learn to use your brain and hands. They're always there. They're always ready, if you don't lock up.

Quit talking BS. Spend some time practicing to find out what works. If all you do is "practice" on a keyboard then send your assailant love letters.:banghead:
If you want something else to try then get in the dojo with practice knives and rubber guns or get a majick marker and work with a buddy that isn't afraid of messing you up a little.
Get some bruises before you bleed to death!
 
The tool he has is irrelevant (knife, club, handgun). You need to disable his weapon (brain). He's just holding your gun.

Step forward (towards him) extremely deep so that you are standing where he is (this will take you behind his muzzle, rotate slightly as you do it).
-and-
Strike a target (throat, side of neck, jaw, groin ect...) AS HARD AS YOU CAN!! using all your body weight generated from the lunge towards him. This kind of force into one of the above mentioned targets will cause an injury (injury-requires medical attention to fix, crushed throat, ruptured testicle)

Repeat above until he is non-functional.

Once you injure him, he cannot shoot you, he is just a man with a crushed throat holding a gun (in reality it's doubtful he'll keep ahold of the gun as he's asphyxiating)...keep causing new injuries before he can recover (any recovery would be minor, he hasn't healed and whatever you broke is still broken) and stop when you are satisfied there is no more threat.

As for distances, inside of 6 feet is an extremely high probability of success, further back becomes a real judment call between doing the above or running. Very good odds for you if you run (if you can). An FBI statistic I heard is that when potenial victims run, the perp only fires in 2% of the cases. Makes sense, he doesn't want attention and is probably past realistically getting what he wants and not getiing caught once you are running. When they fire, the mortality rate was only 5%. I wish I could provide links to the hard data...but the above sounds logical.

This medium is probably the worst for describing this sort of thing so the above is about concepts (injure the guy) not about a specific "technique". Just don't focus on the weapon or "disarming" him. If you grab the gun and take it and while your focusing on that he ruptures your ear drum with his free hand (instead of wrestling you for the gun)...what have you gained?
 
If you grab the gun and take it and while your focusing on that he ruptures your ear drum with his free hand (instead of wrestling you for the gun)...what have you gained?

Your continues time above ground seems about right:D

Another gain is that you determined your fate through intestinal fortitude and training, not letting another deciding your fate [ which they are really attempting to do in that scenario ]. I really like that, don't you?

Brownie
 
@hso:

It takes about .5 second to draw my knive and deploy the blade, and .5 second to switch it to the under-hand position. 1 second to have a weapon deployed and ready to go is fast enough AFAIK, but I'll admit, I've just practiced speed, not concealing activities of readying the weapon. I probably need to work on that part. As far as 1-1 "simulated" combat, ARE YOU CRAZY? I really don't want my throat slit. My knive stays on my pants unless I'm cutting a box, or using it as a weapon. Knifes aren't for screwing around with. :what: You can play your death-games all you want. I prefer not to have 911 on my cell-phone speed dial, thankyouverymuch. :eek:
 
1 second to have a weapon deployed and ready to go is fast enough AFAIK

It's not. Consider how long it takes to pull the trigger vs the .50 draw [ if you can do so ]. One thing I'd also like to point out to you in your theory based replies is that if you attempt to move the knife into any position other than the one it was drawn to in the real world of live or die, you are making a very big mistake.

HSO's post gives you some very good advice. If you are not willing to train for the fight, don't ecpect to win many. Dillusions of ones real capabilities are far more dangerous than any training you could work on prior to actually needing the skills to stay above ground.

Brownie
 
Dillusions of ones real capabilities are far more dangerous than any training you could work on prior to actually needing the skills to stay above ground.
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+1. If it's not trained it's probally not going to happen.
 
As far as 1-1 "simulated" combat, ARE YOU CRAZY? I really don't want my throat slit. My knive stays on my pants unless I'm cutting a box
Click to expand...

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Then once you have your trainers in hand. Go find a place to learn how to use it like AMOK! or a local esckrima dogo.
 
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