Could the Carcano REALLY be the JFK assassination weapon?

[tasunkawitko]

you guys can talk about all this,

and then we have the "pristine" bullet.

i would really like to see a satisfactory explanation for it, as i believe it is 99% impossible.

 

[tex_n_cal]

High velocity rifle bullets can do very odd things. My 2nd deer - shot with a 100 grain, .25 caliber Nosler ballistic tip, launched at about 2900 fps, hit deer 200 yards away, perfectly behind shoulder. The bullet catches a rib, turns a 90 degree turn and goes out the bottom of the belly!

As for Oswald, it's been proven he could have done it.

More importantly, it isn't credible that some organization with considerable resources conspired to kill JFK. One, too much risk of screwing up the hit - Oswald gets caught before the shot, sings, and spills the beans. Second, a shot at a moving vehicle is a low percentage shot, something that only a lone individual with limited opportunity and resources would try.

Think about it - why take the risk of getting caught? If JFK is dead, and the conspiracy is discovered, whatever cause or organization responsible would suffer the unbridled wrath of all America.

Why not just arrange for one of JFK's skeletons to come out? Arrange for one of his mistresses to be discovered, or die suscipiously? Kennedy is ruined, his legacy about as bad as Clinton's is now. Kill him, he's a martyr, especially if his murderers are then discovered.

 

[Dain Bramage]

The pristine bullet is easy. It only looks pristine from the angle of the popular photograph shown everywhere. Other angles show that it really is deformed.

Another one is the zigzag bullet path. I've seen diagrams drawn by conspiracy theorists that show the tortured path the first bullet must have taken to hit both Kennedy and Connelly. They show both men sitting in line at at the same height, probably as they would in a stock Lincoln Continental.

Except the car was not stock. It was modified as a "show the VIP" car. The president's seat was higher and outboard of the governor's seat, lining up the wounds and Oswald's angle correctly. There are many sites on the web with photographs taken before the shooting that show the relative positions of the two men.

 

[JohnKSa]

He also proves his case beyond any doubt by showing that in one frame of the Zapruder film, Kennedies lapel actually jumps out and a small amount of blood spray is visible exiting at the spot (the neck shot).

Exactly, he's not raising his hands to his throat, that's a medical reflex to the spinal injury from the other shot. I can't remember the name of the reflex at the moment. If you look closely, both hands are closed, palms down, and the elbows are really what are being raised.

The bullet isn't pristine. It's bent and flattened. However, there is one view of it that makes it look pretty good. That's the picture everyone remembers. Even it it were "pristine" that doesn't prove anything. I've dug rifle bullets out of the dirt that looked like they were new. The 6.5 caliber is well known for being an excellent penetrator, and the round being used had a very thick jacket. I'm actually kind of surprised that it got bent up as badly as it did.

 

[Mike Irwin]

I've seen, in person, FMJ bullets that have been fired into the skulls of African elephants and Cape Buffalo that look so perfect that it would seem that they could be reloaded and used again.

Several of my former coworkers at NRA hunted Africa extensively when it was still fairly easy to get an elephant, and a number of them recovered the bullets that brought down their trophies.

If the so-called "pristine" bullet was the one that went through Kennedy's neck and throat, and then into Connley's wrist and thigh, it wouldn't have hit much in the way of hard tissue that would cause it to rivet.

Supposedly Oswald used American-made FMJ ammo, I believe by Winchester. I don't know how thick the jacket was on it.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Exactly, he's not raising his hands to his throat, that's a medical reflex to the spinal injury from the other shot. I can't remember the name of the reflex at the moment."

Thorburn's Position, or something close to that.

It's somewhat controversial as to whether it actually happens or not, but if brain trauma can cause a rigid convulsive episode, and it's known that it can, I personally don't see any reason why shock injury to the spinal cord (which would be expected if a bullet passes close by to it) couldn't cause this event.


I've been reading a bunch of stuff on the web (which is where I came across Thorburn's Position reference).

There are some SERIOUSLY scary theories out there.

About the ONLY one I didn't see, and I'm sure it's out there, is that John Hinkley shot Reagan not in an attempt to kill him, but in an attempt to silence Jim Brady him because Brady was actually on the planning committee for JFK's assasination. Reagan was a "mushroom" target, thrown in to make it seem as if someone else was the target.

If that's never been posed before, I want credit!

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Yep, Thorburn's Position. It is proven by the fact once he is hit near the spine, his arms jerk into a fixed position with his hands near his chin (but not touching the exit wound as it would if he were merely reaching for the injury), elbows pushed out to the sides and he remains in that position for over 5 seconds. Jackie grabbed his left arm, once with her right hand and then with both hands and tried to push it down, but his arm did not lower. Only after the headshot blowing out the right hemisphere of his brain was he released from that position.

BTW, Mike, you mean that GWB wasn't also included in the plot? Hillary swears he has been involved in every conspiracy since (and including) Judas betrayed Christ.

 

[lionrobe77]

Hi all, we're ten years after the last message here, almost 50 years after the shooting.
Do we know more ?
Juste read the last "22/11/63" by S.King
I was just a french kid aged eleven in the yard of my college, this was a shock I'll always remember...

 

[HoosierQ]

If my history serves me well enough, the shots were well shy of 100 yards. I think any centerfire rifle that was in working order fired by a Marine Corp trained rifleman would be capable of making those shots. Add to that the fact that it had optics, inexpensive though they may have been, it's even more plausible. I am not aware if there is evidence of any kind whether or not the rifle was zeroed in. Again, since we had a US Marine Corp trained rifleman in this scenario, I think we can assume he would have attended to his weapon properly.

So yes. Those were not 600+ yard shots!!!

 

[morcey2]

Holy thread resurrection, batman! Couldn't you have waited another month for it to have really been dead for ten years before digging up the body and hauling it to the center of town?

 

[Robert]

Bad zombie thread. Back in the ground with you.