Dealers selling to "unsavory" characters

[Redlg155]

I do a bit of buying and selling at local gunshows when they are in my area. I've even refused to sell to individuals who look as though they are gang members or look as though they have done some time in the pen. I have however seen many dealers sell and not discriminate based on percieved gang membership, even when they pull out a roll of bills to pay, yet they purchase an inexpensive weapon with chrome ..aka"bling". Just pass the background check and you are ok.

1. Should economics, or rather, the sale overide personal opinions?

2. Would you refuse to sell to someone wearing biker colors? How about someone in urban "rap style" clothing. Bear in mind that there are many bikers as well as those who wear urban clothes who are decent law abiding citizens.

3. A person in traditional arabic garb? Remove the arabic clothing and beard...does your opinion change?

4. Have you ever see a dealer refuse to sell, even though they could have passed the background check?

 

[guyfromohio]

I don't sell to Pacific Islanders, Asians, certain Eskimo Tribesmen, and white people. Especially those wearing country Singer style clothes. And togas. I won't sell to someone in a toga.

 

[newfalguy101]

I have learned in my 42 years, you simply cannot judge an individual strictly by appearance.

I have known more than one guy, based solely on your post, you wouldnt sell to even though they are hardworking law abiding guys.

I always reserve the right to refuse a sale, although, its gonna take more than a guys appearance to cause me to refuse.

They have the money AND pass the NICS check or purchase permit, far as I am concerned, its a good sale.

 

[guyfromohio]

Admittedly, I've lied and said that a gun had been sold when it hadn't based on a phone call or post.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I don't sell to Pacific Islanders, Asians, certain Eskimo Tribesmen, and white people. Especially those wearing country Singer style clothes. And togas. I won't sell to someone in a toga.

I've never been insulted so much in my life, how dare you discriminate against my people! Pitchforks and torches at dusk!

3. A person in traditional arabic garb? Remove the arabic clothing and beard...does your opinion change?

No because why would it be bad in the first place?

 

[SharkHat]

So, your basic question is, "Is it okay to be prejuduced?"

 

[Redlg155]

Bear in mind that I did mention in #2 that appearances can be decieving. The sales I have refused were to individuals who made me uncomfortable. I've seen and known many "unsavory characters" in 3 piece suits.

I am in no way implying that it is ok to be prejudicial, however, it's hard for me to believe that no one has denied a sale because of political correctness.

 

[M-Cameron]

.....so law abiding people should be denied the right to protect themselves because you dont like the style of clothes they have on.........??

and even though they have passed a background check, you think they are gang members or have spent time im prison......because they wear biker leather, or a cap and baggy pants.......?


now if i was a dealer, or selling FTF.....and someone gave me a bad vibe, sure, ide refuse the sale........but ide need more evidence than what they chose to wear that day to convince me.........

 

[hermannr]

Absolutely not. The person is either a valid purchaser, or not, it has nothing to do with his clothing, bearing or haircut.

I have a neighbor who probably has not shaved or cut his hair in 20+ years. He lives in a house that is not hooked up to the grid, and that is the way he likes it.

He is probably one of the hardest working, most honest people up on this mountain. contrast that with: There are a lot of Mr. Slick 3 piece suits that are convicted felons that would cheat you at the drop of their hat..

If I get bad vibes about someone, it is usually Mr. Slick rather than Mr Want-a-be a mountain man.

 

[mmitch]

I don't, rightly, know if it is okay to be prejudiced, but I do know that every human is!

Mike

 

[Eric M]

If the guy can speak English well and seems to know how to operate a firearm safely, I have no problems.

 

[toivo]

They have the money AND pass the NICS check or purchase permit, far as I am concerned, its a good sale.

That's pretty much it. Everything else is just a fashion statement.

One exception: I've been flamed for saying this before, but I wouldn't sell a gun to a person who was obviously intoxicated. I've seen people at gun shows and in gun stores who reeked of alcohol and could barely stand up. IMO, anybody who shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car shouldn't have a gun in his hand either, even if it's in a box.

 

[firesky101]

As long as the transfer is legal I am not concerned. I have had people offer me more money to not do a transfer through a FFL. Ummm... no thank you mr. gangbanger or ATF sting operator.

 

[jim243]

This sounds like the Anti-gun people talking. Why would you take someone's 2 nd amendement rights away from them if it IS LEGAL for them to own a firearm???

Are YOU some sort of 2nd admendement basher that thinks we should have MORE gun laws based on color of skin, looks or religion????

Jim

 

[Nushif]

I know the OP and a couple of people are desperately trying to ask the question "Is it ok for me to not sell to people whose looks or behavior I don't like?" But as much as we're trampling around the bush here, that is exactly what we're asking.

I guess because it is ultimately a private sale sure, you can refuse all that stuff.

But dare I say that in my personal opinion that makes someone refusing a sale (ESPECIALLY) after a NCIS check still just as judgmental as before?

Like I said, you have every right to not sell to whomever you want, but at the end of the day I hope one of these days someone judges you as harshly as you judged that person. Because you have nothing less coming in my book.

 

[Redlg155]

I am the furthest thing from a gun basher or anti second ammendment individual. I was not given my citizenship by birth right. I earned my cirizenship by fighting for this country and serving in the Armed Forces. I then had to take a test to prove that I knew what every American should know about US history.

I never said I would not sell to certain individuals based on clothing, race, ethnicity, religion or other factors. I did say I would not be comfortable in certain situations and would personally not sell. I will also say that I've worked in state prisons for the last 14 years, so I have developed a certain "sense" about things.

This post was intended to inquire as to the nature of responses I would get. I even took some pains to make a disclaimer to #2.

 

[Nushif]

But the issue as to whether the sale should be made is unavoidably about a snap judgement based on the notions of a "moral majority."

If we truly do crystallize this down the question really does come down to "Who shouldn't we sell to because they don't conform to <insert some standard>?"

Or would you not agree?

 

[TennJed]

I personally refuse to sell to someone with no money.

Not long ago i was having a lazy day watching football. I was wearing jogging pants and a flannel shirt. I had not shaved in a couple of days. I had to run to the drugstore and I put on some flipflops. I had no intentions of getting out of the truck. I was just going to go through the drive thru.

Passed by a local gunshop and figured I would stop by since i was out. I looked homeless, but so what is was saturday and the family was out of town. They had a used Ruger Blackhawk at a good price, so I put down the debit card.

I would have been furious if someone rufused to sell me a gun because of the way I looked. I wear a suit and tie 5 days a week. Occasionally on the weekend I just don't want to get out of my couch clothes.

 

[guyfromohio]

We cannot base sales on prejudices, but we need to trust our instincts. We are the only species that puts PC before our senses. If it doesn't feel right, walk away (private sales).

 

[mnrivrat]

Just pass the background check and you are ok.

That's correct .

Anything else is simply personal bias or preduduce . I suppose you have the right to be preduduce, in my opinion ,as long as you accept that you might be on the receiving end of some of that yourself. Other opinions may vary.

 

[TexasBill]

I wouldn't refuse to sell to the people specified, though if the guy doesn't have enough sense to pull up his pants, I might wonder about him having enough sense to handle a gun.

The choice to sell or not sell, and the reasons for that choice, are up to you. Like the signs on the restaurants say, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."

Personally, I have to say that if it makes you uncomfortable to sell a firearm to a certain individual, don't do it. But be up front about it. Don't have the person fill out the 4473; don't run the background check because then you are creating the impression that passing the NICS check is the only thing separating the potential purchaser from a sale when you never intended to sell them the gun anyway. Even if I was of Arabic descent, dressed in leathers and enough bling to sink a battleship, I would be more upset by having gone through, and passed, all the hurdles just to have you say "No Sale" than to be told in the beginning that you don't like the cut of my jib.

 

[AlexanderA]

This sort of dilemma is one of the main reasons I gave up my FFL many years ago. I didn't want to have to worry about some buyer misusing a gun. Now, I would sell only to a dealer and let him worry about it.

 

[writerinmo]

I'm 52, retired Federal employee, medical discharge military after 15 years of service. I have a CCW and an 03FFL. That being said, I usually dress in a "less than casual" attire. Most days will find me in scruffy jeans or a pair of my military BDU pants, an a-shirt tucked in, maybe a tshirt over that (and my carry pistol) if it's not too hot, then either a denim jacket with no sleeves or my old BDU top (also with no sleeves) and one of my many assorted do-rags. I have a shaved head, and a mustache and goatee. My appearance would not tell you anything about me other than that I could care less about fashion over being comfortable. It doesn't speak of my character or behavior, even less about whether or not I am legally capable of purchasing a firearm. There are requirements in place for dealers to determine whether or not to sell a firearm to a person, it's probably wise to use them, despite any "vibes" that you might have. A person might appear overly nervous because his wife doesn't know that he's out buying ANOTHER gun, and he's worried about sneaking it into the house without getting caught by her...

 

[wasr10634unme]

no price tags. they ask you. talk to them. get a feel for them. talk shooting ask them about why they like the particular weapon. if you think their intentions are unsavory... "that hi-point was used by (insert name of any exhibition shooter theyve never heard of) $1000" they wont be interested and you dont have to refuse(make them do it).they might get it somewhere else but you can sleep knowing your transferred firearm wont go to ganger mcbanger's homies.

if they still want your $1000 hipoint or whatever "whoops i was mistaken that ones $10,000.00 sorry bout the mixup. you still want it?"

i dont understand that gangster dressup. if they didnt want to be profiled they could wear clothes that fit ditch the nikes and the fitted hat(i wore that stuff in middleschool. lol)

i allow myself to be profiled because of my messy hair(which will soon be dreadlocks) but as a ccp holder i dont break any laws(cept for a rolled sign now and then after looking both ways)

 

[Nushif]

i dont understand that gangster dressup.

I don't understand cardigans, pants around the bellybutton and "Sir"ing everyone and their mom either. A "Sir" is a military officer or a knight. Not some random guy. Pants around the bellybutton were hip in the 50s and you can't even find them on most modern business suits anymore, either. But hey, people can dress any sort of silly 40's way they want. Not my business they can't manage maintaining the hips for some decent pants, and wear a good shirt over a metal t-shirt like anyone normal who gets their tats from a nice local place.

Ya know?