Decapping pin torque?

[nettlle]

One of my handiest reloading tools are these pliers. Priming pin falling out? Use these pliers. Dies with round lock nuts coming loose? Use these pliers. Once tightened with these they are tight forever.

 

[conan32120]

try roughing it up with some course sandpaper after degreasing, not the same as knurled but does improve the bite.

 

[Y-T71]

I think maybe the Universal doesn't have a problem because the case can "float" a little, vs. the sizing die that holds it centered. ??? Maybe?

I agree with this theory.

I don't decap with sizing dies, only ever use universal decapping die because I like to tumble before I size and, at least in my mind, the primer pockets get some attention when doing it this way.

I've never broken a decaping rod but have had them slip in the collet.

Some Central or South American 5.56 IIRC; flash holes way too small.

Buddy bought the 3pk of Squirrel Daddy decapping rods and gave me one.

Nice, all one piece and the pin is tapered for extra strength.

Used it a couple of times and re-installed the OEM, saving it for the day I might happen to bend/break one.

 

[FROGO207]

Post #27 ^^^^^ This, I use some 60 grit sand paper and fold it in half with the grit inside. Then take the shaft of the decap pin, set the top 1/3 in and close the paper. Hold the paper tightly closed and rotate shaft around 2-3 times. That will rough up the pin enough so that a good tightning of the collet nut will hold things from sliding up. This has worked on my Lee dies from the 70's.

 

[PWC]

The movement is a safety factor to keep from breaking the pin. If it is bothersome go to McMaster Carr or Granger and buy 3" drill rod blank of suitable size. Slide it into the decap rod 'til it bottoms out. Use a dremel to cut the drill rod protrusion to the length of the standard pin. File a champher on business end so it dosn't swage itself into the spent primer anvil causing it tp hang up.

The drill rod blanks usually come on multi packs. 30 yrs ago I bought a 3 pack. I still have 2 1/2 rods in my tool box.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

If you're gonna use LocTite, then use either purple (low strength) or blue (medium strength) LocTite. Don't use the red (high strength).

All you want is enough to keep it from turning and no more. Purple and blue will allow for easy removal at a later date.

 

[Bcwitt]

Just leave the ram in the up position & tap the pin back down w a brass hammer.

 

[nettlle]

I have used Loctite. Decades ago Loctite made up for a lot of tolerance sins. These days, with the precision CNC machines, I no longer use Locktite. If it requires Loctite it wasn't made right to begin with.

 

[Tilos]

I think maybe the Universal doesn't have a problem because the case can "float" a little, vs. the sizing die that holds it centered. ??? Maybe?

Good analogy
Here's a pic of the ultimate "float", no die at all:


in a drill press, no fishing for the slot in the shell holder.
.

 

[Radom Guy]

Thanks everyone. Some good suggestions and analysis in these posts.

my next step will be to degrease the decapper and inside of the collet. I’ll lightly sand the decapper. I’ll use “blue” loc-tite on the pin (not on any threads) to make up for any poor machining or fitting.

If I can make the time, I’ll separate the GFL/Fiocchi 32 ACP brass again and keep it aside in case I ever need it for something else (I’ll probably never touch it again but I’ll still keep it because I am a reloader!). That particular brass, with its known off center flash holes as folks pointed out, about 1/3 of my 32acp brass is likely causing the problem over and over.

I appreciate the idea of tapping the pin down with a brass hammer, too. Why did I never think of that? I guess because I assumed it was too loose. I’ll probably do that if it happens in the future.

I also have the option to remove primers with my Universal Decapping Die before sizing.

Of course, thanks for the other suggestions that I’ll read again and possibly do as well.

Much appreciated!

 

[cfullgraf]

Does anyone know what the actual torque rating (in ft-lbs or equivalent) is for Lee handgun caliber resize and decapping dies? Other than “torque the crap out of it but don’t break it”?

.

Sounds like the start of a good experiment. Since you are asking about a torque setting for the decapping pin, I assume you have a torque wrench.

Lock the pin with a torque wrench and record the torque. If the pin moves easier than you want when decapping, set the torque a bit higher.

Let us know the results of your study.

 

[Skgreen]

The clamp is the other half of the equation:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012830615?pid=346592

 

[Rule3]

Remove / Replace Decapping Rod
Support Portal » Knowledgebase » Viewing Article
Print

• 11/17/2011 10:45 am
• • Handgun/Pistol Dies
  • Rifle Dies

To loosen the Decapper Clamp, you will need a 1/2" Box Wrench on the Clamp Nut and a 3/4" Open End Wrench on the die body. Loosen the Decapper Clamp until the Decapper is free to move. The Pin and/or Clamp should be cleaned and left to dry. The end of the Decapper Rod is to be flush with the top of the Decapper Clamp. The trick is to hold the Pin flush to the top and at the same time tighten the Clamp. Once you have the Pin aligned flush, tighten the Clamp in the die using both wrenches. Now tighten it again. It needs to be TIGHT. The pin may move back a short distance with the first case you deprime, but it should stay in that position now. You know it is tight enough when the primer pops out, the Pin did not move and the case pulls free without pulling out the Decapping Rod.

 

[CQB45ACP]

What I'm saying is, I never considered it a problem. It's a design feature I learned to use to my advantage. I tighten the collet until the pin is held to a "good" tightness for a "good" primer. If a primer pops the pin up, I use the small brass mallet I keep in the tackle box with my other stuff for that reloading session to tap it down and punch out the offending primer. That way, no additional torque on the pin is necessary and I can feel if there's something wrong that primers that might break or bend a pin. I have been using the Lee decapping dies for most of my reloading since around 1995/96 - I started with Lyman dies in the 70's and when I got back into reloading the third time, I bought Lee to start with - but I also use Hornady and RCBS. I tend to prefer the Lee pin-n-collet arrangement and don't consider the pin moving to be a problem. I have never broken a pin but I did bend the crud out of a Hornady .45ACP pin a few times when Berdan-primed, copper-washed steel cases snuck into the mix. Changing the ping on a Hornady die is pretty easy so it's not a big deal.

One thing I used to do as a machinist when I had a collet-pin that wanted to move was stripe it with blue Dykem and tighten it down while the Dykem was still wet. That stuff is like LokTite but you can also see where it's slipping when it slips. Hope that helps.

“It’s a design feature…”

I love this! Spoken like a former machinist who’s gone completely to the dark side as a programmer.

Blue screen of death? It’s a feature. Have you tried rebooting?

Completely joking and hope you know it.

Edit: my gosh, think about (I just did) resetting the pin IS rebooting,

 

[Kp321]

Rather than Loctite, I use powdered rosin on the rod.
Powdered rosin is handy to have, I bought a large container to use on my barrel vise inserts and have found several other uses. Helps a strap wrench grip and makes a good, but stinky, lead flux.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

“It’s a design feature…”

I love this! Spoken like a former machinist who’s gone completely to the dark side as a programmer.

Blue screen of death? It’s a feature. Have you tried rebooting?

Completely joking and hope you know it.

Edit: my gosh, think about (I just did) resetting the pin IS rebooting,

Well, I do take it in the best spirit but, let’s remember that a “design feature” just means the characteristic exists as a result of the design, not that it is desirable. When I was working on the F-16 refit project back in the early ‘80’s one of the first design features to be corrected was the wiring harnesses. The original design used aluminum rings. They abraded and broke the wires. Fly by wire go bye bye. The Air Force wanted padded steel. Nope. Long story short they ended up using Delrin. It’s not perfect but much better. Shredding the wiring harness was a very bad thing but it was just a consequence of some design features which also resulted in a very sleek and effective aircraft. You take the bad with the good and try to make improvements that give you a better overall result.

 

[Rule3]

One of my handiest reloading tools are these pliers. Priming pin falling out? Use these pliers. Dies with round lock nuts coming loose? Use these pliers. Once tightened with these they are tight forever.

View attachment 1130097

Thanks

I was thinking about those the other day. I need to order a pair to go with my other 100 or so pliers!

 

[Rule3]

Does anyone know what the actual torque rating (in ft-lbs or equivalent) is for Lee handgun caliber resize and decapping dies? Other than “torque the crap out of it but don’t break it”?

I know it’s a common event that the decapping pins are inadvertently pushed upward with Lee sizing dies. This stuff drives me crazy; it coincidentally happened to me twice yesterday with two different calibers.

I read another post that Lee’s new decapping pin design is knurled to help resolve the issue, but I’m dealing with dies that I have had for years. I just ordered three more decapping pins but I don’t know if they will be the new knurled design.

Next time I re-torque it, I’ll make sure I use a degreaser on the pin and inside the part of the die that holds the pin, I’ll use loc-tite on the pin itself too .

PS I am not a new reloader; I have been reloading for many years, which is why I mentioned that my dies are “years old”. I am tightening the living crap out of it without breaking it; I am not a weakling. I respect my tools and try to not break them. Please no statements like it’s “not tight enough”, that is obvious and it is not helpful.

Thanks in advance to helpful fellow reloaders .

I have at least 10 or so Lee Die sets and never ever had a issue with the deprimer pin hold. Maybe popped up twice on some crimped primers
Even stuck a case a few times and removed it using the correct Lee instructions
Use the correct pliers as mention above and you should have no issues. I don't understand all the "mods"?? The decapper clamp is tapered, do not remove it, loosen only
I know you are not talking about a stuck case but here is tightening it,

LEE makes the best depriming pins out there! They are made from roller bearings, one would have to try really really hard to break one, yet some folks do seem to do it??

 

[jmorris]

I am one of those that see the collet retaining the decapping pin as a feature, if you don’t have it too tight and wind up breaking the pin anyway.

The 1/8 NPT collet is a smart idea that doesn’t require anything special to utilize so I have used them in my past projects as well.



I run them as loose as I can without the pin raising when decapping.

I just checked the torque on my Lee universal decapping die with a witness mark and applying force until it tightened further ~20ft/lb is where it moved.

 

[Radom Guy]

I have at least 10 or so Lee Die sets and never ever had a issue with the deprimer pin hold. Maybe popped up twice on some crimped primers
Even stuck a case a few times and removed it using the correct Lee instructions
Use the correct pliers as mention above and you should have no issues. I don't understand all the "mods"?? The decapper clamp is tapered, do not remove it, loosen only
I know you are not talking about a stuck case but here is tightening it,

LEE makes the best depriming pins out there! They are made from roller bearings, one would have to try really really hard to break one, yet some folks do seem to do it??

I’ll probably jinx myself here, but I have never had a stuck case. My post was solely about decapping pins, as you mentioned. As I wrote a couple replies ago, there’s some good analysis here from helpful folks like yourself, and I described my plan to resolve this above, too. Long story short, details in another reply, but it was actually very likely a problem with the particular brand of brass that I was using and its off center flash holes. Not necessarily a die issue.

 

[Radom Guy]

I am one of those that see the collet retaining the decapping pin as a feature, if you don’t have it too tight and wind up breaking the pin anyway.

The 1/8 NPT collet is a smart idea that doesn’t require anything special to utilize so I have used them in my past projects as well.



I run them as loose as I can without the pin raising when decapping.

I just checked the torque on my Lee universal decapping die with a witness mark and applying force until it tightened further ~20ft/lb is where it moved.

Wow, 20 ft-lbs, that’s not much. Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

If you did not see it, here is a quote from myself on how I’ll resolve the issue and what the problem actually most likely was.

Thanks everyone. Some good suggestions and analysis in these posts.

my next step will be to degrease the decapper and inside of the collet. I’ll lightly sand the decapper. I’ll use “blue” loc-tite on the pin (not on any threads) to make up for any poor machining or fitting.

If I can make the time, I’ll separate the GFL/Fiocchi 32 ACP brass again and keep it aside in case I ever need it for something else (I’ll probably never touch it again but I’ll still keep it because I am a reloader!). That particular brass, with its known off center flash holes as folks pointed out, about 1/3 of my 32acp brass is likely causing the problem over and over.

I appreciate the idea of tapping the pin down with a brass hammer, too. Why did I never think of that? I guess because I assumed it was too loose. I’ll probably do that if it happens in the future.

I also have the option to remove primers with my Universal Decapping Die before sizing.

Of course, thanks for the other suggestions that I’ll read again and possibly do as well.

Much appreciated!

 

[CQB45ACP]

Well, I do take it in the best spirit but, let’s remember that a “design feature” just means the characteristic exists as a result of the design, not that it is desirable. When I was working on the F-16 refit project back in the early ‘80’s one of the first design features to be corrected was the wiring harnesses. The original design used aluminum rings. They abraded and broke the wires. Fly by wire go bye bye. The Air Force wanted padded steel. Nope. Long story short they ended up using Delrin. It’s not perfect but much better. Shredding the wiring harness was a very bad thing but it was just a consequence of some design features which also resulted in a very sleek and effective aircraft. You take the bad with the good and try to make improvements that give you a better overall result.

I hadn’t given it that much thought to be honest but it makes sense. Should’ve fixed the harness chafing in 747 wing tanks while you were at it and saved hundreds aboard TWA 800.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I hadn’t given it that much thought to be honest but it makes sense. Should’ve fixed the harness chafing in 747 wing tanks while you were at it and saved hundreds aboard TWA 800.

The shops I worked for were all defense subcontractors. We didn’t have anything to do with civil aviation. We did do some work at Piper for the civil aviation side but I was only there to work on the CADD to CNC interface project. When Piper sold the plant I hung around for the pay for a few months then moved back up to Canaveral to work on shuttle. Civil aviation development is just way too stressful.

 

[maxxhavoc]

If you haven't figured this out yet, follow the directions in post #38 above.

A trick to get this tight without breaking anything is to get the wrenches set up about 30 degrees apart from each other or less so you can grip both wrenches with your hand at the same time. Squeeze them together, then reposition the wrench and do it again. You will effectively turn the bottom one direction and the top the opposite at exacylt the same amount of force. Very efficient energy transfer, so it gets tighter than you would expect.

Dont get a finger between the wrenches when you squeeze.

 

[Radom Guy]

If you haven't figured this out yet, follow the directions in post #38 above.

A trick to get this tight without breaking anything is to get the wrenches set up about 30 degrees apart from each other or less so you can grip both wrenches with your hand at the same time. Squeeze them together, then reposition the wrench and do it again. You will effectively turn the bottom one direction and the top the opposite at exacylt the same amount of force. Very efficient energy transfer, so it gets tighter than you would expect.

Dont get a finger between the wrenches when you squeeze.

Yes, those are certainly good instructions, thanks for the tip. When setting a decapper back in, I actually remove the die from the press, put it in a vise holding onto the 3/4” flats, and use a 6 point 1/2” socket attached to a 3/8” drive ratchet. That is why I felt that I was torquing it properly. Basically, torquing the crap out of it without breaking it, haha!