Defective Winchester Ammo

[huntsman]

Is that the 100 round "value" pack? I found a bad one in a box(100) of 9mm, spent about a half hour cleaning the mag and going through each round before I loaded up another.

 

[bernie]

Elano, I understand your frustration, and I would have that frustration as well. But please consider removing the customer service reps name from your post. She did not make the policy, she only has to work within it to keep her job. It is not fair to her personally to place her name up in the post. If you want to put her first name, cool. But putting her first and last name up there is really not fair to her. Would you want you name posted on the internet for simply doing your job? I do realize that I will catch heat for this, and I would be upset with WInchester as well, but it is not her personal fault.

 

[Drail]

"I'm guessing that soldiers don't use economy grade ammo". Soldiers have to use whatever they are issued - and most of that isn't even American made ammo anymore. If you had ever served in the military then you will know how the old "lowest bidder" thing works. It's all politics. Most of the small arms ammo used today by our military comes from Israel and South Korea - both countries located in very dangerous places - after our Govt. closed all of the U.S. Armories except for Lake City. Only a politician could come up with an idea that stupid.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Pretty sad when I've head less problems and dud rounds with Tulammo 9mm than the big American "white box" ammos in the past few years.

If you aren't already aware of this, "Winchester" is just a name. It's a joke now. Like you said, Winchester hardly makes anything these days and they certainly don't make guns in America.

 

[Warp]

If you want high quality ammunition that you can depend on you MUST load your own because the factories just don't care any more. It's bad enough they produce, package and sell junk like this - and then won't even give you a refund on it. This kind of stuff has been going on for quite a few years now but it has obviously reached the point where these people need to find new jobs. Imagine if you were a U.S. soldier and you ripped open a box of ammo and found this? I have seen Winchester factory ammo with primers inserted sideways and backwards, no powder in the case and even cases with no flash hole punched in them.

There are plenty of companies out there producing lots of choices in very high quality ammunition...and even IF (when, you make enough, something will get through eventually) one of those rounds made it through, for defense or duty type ammo you will be looking at it as you load it into magazines (or into the gun). Of course, I'm not talking about anything made by Winchester here

 

[Malamute]

"I'm guessing that soldiers don't use economy grade ammo". Soldiers have to use whatever they are issued - and most of that isn't even American made ammo anymore. If you had ever served in the military then you will know how the old "lowest bidder" thing works. It's all politics. Most of the small arms ammo used today by our military comes from Israel and South Korea - both countries located in very dangerous places - after our Govt. closed all of the U.S. Armories except for Lake City. Only a politician could come up with an idea that stupid.

I had a feeling this would come up.

Lowest bidder does not mean cheapest possible price. It means cheapest price for the specified materials and performance levels, including velocity consistency and accuracy standards. That isn't always what wed like after weve had some good lots that shoot exceptionally well, but it certainly doesn't mean what you are implying it does.

The gov also buys from domestic commercial makers that are capable of making the quality level of ammo required. Again, you are implying something that isn't true. Do you have a source for the info about the gov using foreign ammo, and is it combat ammo or training ammo? I haven't kept up recently, it would be interesting to know about the ammo and how its performing.

I believe Black Hills is producing the Mk262 ammo.

If you aren't already aware of this, "Winchester" is just a name. It's a joke now. Like you said, Winchester hardly makes anything these days and they certainly don't make guns in America.

I don't think its a joke. The lever actions Winchester has had made in Japan by Miroku are higher quality guns than Winchester has made in ages, and certainly higher quality than any of the other lever actions Ive seen overall. I believe the bolt action rifles are made in the US. I don't know what else they make in the states or elsewhere, my interest in Winchesters has always been lever actions.

 

[Analogkid]

Well at least you could see the issue with the ammo.

I wasn't so lucky with this federal batch.

 

[Warp]

"I'm guessing that soldiers don't use economy grade ammo". Soldiers have to use whatever they are issued - and most of that isn't even American made ammo anymore. If you had ever served in the military then you will know how the old "lowest bidder" thing works. It's all politics. Most of the small arms ammo used today by our military comes from Israel and South Korea - both countries located in very dangerous places - after our Govt. closed all of the U.S. Armories except for Lake City. Only a politician could come up with an idea that stupid.

"Lowest bidder" that meets the required specification.

WWB wouldn't be making it lol

Isn't that Israeli made ammo quite good?

 

[ljnowell]

Their products are now all imported selling out American's jobs and their customer service is ran by incompetent bozos.



]

You got a box of crappy ammo, congrats.

You are absolutely dead wrong about "all their products are being imported."

My uncle retired from Olin in Alton, IL. I shoot two leagues and combat matches at the a Olin Handgun Facility in Alton IL. Alton is where Olin Brass Works is, making the brass for cartridges. It's where the lead smelting and production facility is. It's also where centerfire production is. Rimfire production was moved to Mississippi, Oxford I believe, a few years back. All 100% American made down to the components.

I'm sorry you have had a bad experience. They dropped the ball on you, no doubt. Spouting outright lies greatly reduces the credibility of your story.

 

[buck460XVR]

I contacted their product service rep, Sheryl Forbeck, who infomed me that they could not give me a FULL refund OR a cupon for a whole new box because I had already shot some of the ammo.

Here ya go Sheryl Forbeck. You just keep that $9.50.

Seems legitimate to me. $9.50 credit/refund for 7 rounds of bad ammo seems like good CS to me. The heavy marks on the FMJ bullets tells me it could very well be more than defective manufacture. I've shot bowling pins with FMJs that showed less deformation than that. As far as safety, would those rounds even chamber in your gun? I know they wouldn't in mine. WWB has always performed well for me considering the cost of it. While I reload most of my ammo nowadays, I still buy a few boxes every year for when others than me shoot my firearms. While 7 bad rounds outta a box of 100 would be a disappointment, getting $9.50 for them would not be. But that's me. I wonder if Winchester gave a full refund or free 100 round box every-time someone showed them a pic of one defective round, how many folks would whack a round or two from every box with a hammer for the freebies?

 

[Warp]

Seems legitimate to me. $9.50 credit/refund for 7 rounds of bad ammo seems like good CS to me. The heavy marks on the FMJ bullets tells me it could very well be more than defective manufacture. I've shot bowling pins with FMJs that showed less deformation than that. As far as safety, would those rounds even chamber in your gun? I know they wouldn't in mine. WWB has always performed well for me considering the cost of it. While I reload most of my ammo nowadays, I still buy a few boxes every year for when others than me shoot my firearms. While 7 bad rounds outta a box of 100 would be a disappointment, getting $9.50 for them would not be. But that's me. I wonder if Winchester gave a full refund or free 100 round box every-time someone showed them a pic of one defective round, how many folks would whack a round or two from every box with a hammer for the freebies?

Think I did this with a hammer? Winchester wouldn't even respond to me.

And this is premium defensive ammo. I have other bad ones too

 

[HammsBeer]

OP, please post the lot number of the box.

I have 7000 rounds of WWB, so it would help me to narrow down a potential bad lot out of 70 boxes vs sorting 7000 individual rounds.

 

[buck460XVR]

Think I did this with a hammer? Winchester wouldn't even respond to me.

And this is premium defensive ammo. I have other bad ones too

Nope....looks more like it was done with a pair of pliers.

Just kidding. No where did I say anything about folks here destroying ammo in an attempt to get free ammo in return. I was just thinking out loud what would happen if folks openly and repeatedly posted to gun forums about getting a free box of ammo, everytime they had one defective round. I have lived long enough in our society to realized many folks out there think there should be a free lunch for them. Similar to those folks at restaurants that eat everything on their plate and then claim it was inedible and want credit for it. If Winchester did not respond to you at all, I am surprised. I personally have always had good CS from them, the few times I have used it.

 

[Drail]

Regardless of how good the ammo is coming out of Israel or South Korea (and in my experience it is very good quality) the problem remains - both countries border other countries that would like to nuke them into the stone age. So where does our D.O.D. turn to if that happens? Do they simply tell the soldiers "Sorry guys, we cannot produce enough ammo for you all and our main supplier just went up in smoke". See a logistics problem there? This has been going on since the Clinton administration.

 

[Warp]

Regardless of how good the ammo is coming out of Israel or South Korea (and in my experience it is very good quality) the problem remains - both countries border other countries that would like to nuke them into the stone age. So where does our D.O.D. turn to if that happens? Do they simply tell the soldiers "Sorry guys, we cannot produce enough ammo for you all and our main supplier just went up in smoke". See a logistics problem there? This has been going on since the Clinton administration.

My bet is that we have enough ammunition on hand (+ our own manufacturing capability if necessary) to supply a full scale war. But I wouldn't know so

 

[CDW4ME]

Few years ago, I had a squib round of 165 gr. 40 Ranger T.
The bullet lodged in the barrel and fortunately I was able to drive it out, no damage to my pistol.
I contacted Winchester and they sent a full 500 round replacement case of ammo in return for what was left of my case, I'd shot about 150 rounds out of the 500.
Only squib round I've ever had.
Thank God it occurred shooting at a target and not defending my life.

 

[au_prospector]

Looks like someone tried to force it into the wrong size chamber, then tossed back into the box and returned it.

Where on earth did you purchase it>?

 

[rugerman]

A few years back a friend was trying to get his rifle sighted in for deer season, at 100 yards he could not keep it on the paper. He called me and asked if I would help. The next day we started over, I checked the stock screws, the scope mount screws, etc. then we started off at 25 yards, 3 inch group. At 50 it was all over the target. I didn't know if it was the ammo or the gun so I went home and got my reloads with 130 and 150 gr bullets (270 Winchester). Again we started at 25 yards this time you could cover the 3 shot group with a dime, at 100 yards it was moa. So I traded him enough of my reloads to get him thru deer season ( it started the next day) and he gave me the Winchester 130gr that was left to break down for components. When I broke it down I weighted the powder charges in 10 rounds there was a difference of 1 to 2 grains in those 10 rounds and I had to beat the devil out of my inertia puller to get the bullets out of the cases. Bad stuff!

 

[elano]

Elano, I understand your frustration, and I would have that frustration as well. But please consider removing the customer service reps name from your post. She did not make the policy, she only has to work within it to keep her job. It is not fair to her personally to place her name up in the post. If you want to put her first name, cool. But putting her first and last name up there is really not fair to her. Would you want you name posted on the internet for simply doing your job? I do realize that I will catch heat for this, and I would be upset with WInchester as well, but it is not her personal fault.

It was her attitude that annoyed me the most. That said I thought about your point and decided to remove the last name.

 

[HammsBeer]

If you could post the lot number of the box that would be very helpful thank you.

 

[DeepSouth]

About 4-5 years ago I bought a box of Winchester silver tip's that had two nearly identical to the two in the op.

 

[Rock185]

I have a round of WWB 9MM that looks very similar to the OP's. I must have received the Premium WWB ammo. Only 1% defective

A couple years ago I bought a 1000 rd. case of Federal 9BP standard pressure 115 JHP 9MM. Had some cases split length wise when fired. Emailed photos to Federal. They sent me a shipping label and asked that I return whatever was left of that case. I'd shot several hundred rounds but shipped back what I had left. Federal shipped me a fresh case of 1000 rounds and I had it within about a week. No problems at all with the replacement ammo. I am surprised Winchester didn't ship you at least a new box of 100 just for your trouble and good PR.

I once bought a box of CorBon .380 that wasn't up to snuff. I only had 5 rounds left. Called CorBon up and they asked I send it back. I did. They called me back and were very up front in telling me that indeed my ammo did not meet spec. They'd been trying a new powder. They were apologetic, sent me two new boxes of ammo and were as nice as they could be about it. Again a good PR attitude. Both Federal and CorBon turned what could have been a negative experience with their product into good PR. People don't forget how they were treated....ymmv

 

[2zulu1]

It'll buff out.

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

One thing you might want to keep in mind is that Winchester ammunition and Winchester firearms are two separate entities. The Olin company completely owns the Winchester name in & of itself. However, Olin leases the Winchester name for firearms production to F.N. I do believe. Olin does produce the ammo under the Winchester name, but there is no common ground other than ten letters of the alphabet between the ammo & the guns. Griping at either one because of the other is foolish.

900F

 

[dwight.hopkins.96]

I'm lucky enough to have a fairly large bulk loader located here in town. They load thousands of rounds a week for competition, training and sale. They also load for companies such as Winchester to fill back orders or whatever. I buy 147 grain 9 mm for under $200 per thousand and have never found a bad round from them. I know the large companies are pumping out ammo faster than ever but a lack of QC on this level is nothing less than piss poor management.