Defective Winchester Ammo

[ljnowell]

I'm lucky enough to have a fairly large bulk loader located here in town. They load thousands of rounds a week for competition, training and sale. They also load for companies such as Winchester to fill back orders or whatever. I buy 147 grain 9 mm for under $200 per thousand and have never found a bad round from them. I know the large companies are pumping out ammo faster than ever but a lack of QC on this level is nothing less than piss poor management.

No they do NOT load ammo for Winchester to fill back orders. Absolute hogwash.

 

[ColoradoShooter77]

There 22 long rifle ammo is garbage as well, it won't even cycle my 1911-22. I had to use a dowel to push the spent case out of the barrel, won't be buying anymore of this stuff!

 

[Warp]

There 22 long rifle ammo is garbage as well, it won't even cycle my 1911-22. I had to use a dowel to push the spent case out of the barrel, won't be buying anymore of this stuff!

They recalled some of their .22lr for possible double charges a couple years ago or so..and I've seen a different non recalled Winchester .22lr kaboom (if you can call it that when it's .22lr) and blow the bottom of the case off

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Not picking nits - in fact supporting the OP but...

That doesn't fall within "defective" as I use the term.

I would have a defect complaint if the ammo was flawed in performance - this is such absolute garbage as to never even have had the chance to perform.

I'm quite amazed that Winchester would not suck this up immediately. So you used some of it? You had to to get to the garbage rounds.

Me? I NEVER use WWB unless it is garage sale priced and that sentiment is based upon poor performance regularity in general and semi-autos in particular.

This - the OP's - takes the cake!


Todd.

 

[Vernon1]

Dangerous Winchester Ammunition

My father always said to give folks the benefit of the doubt.

At the least I would send the CEO of Winchester the photos, the lot number, etc.

If he asks for you to physically send him the faulty rounds he should by all means supply the shipping label or a prepaid means of sending it back.

I find it hard to believe that the CEO or the Winchester Board Members would not be appalled by this ammunition-not to mention their legal department.

Someone has to stop this madness.

 

[joed]

Elano, I understand your frustration, and I would have that frustration as well. But please consider removing the customer service reps name from your post. She did not make the policy, she only has to work within it to keep her job. It is not fair to her personally to place her name up in the post. If you want to put her first name, cool. But putting her first and last name up there is really not fair to her. Would you want you name posted on the internet for simply doing your job? I do realize that I will catch heat for this, and I would be upset with WInchester as well, but it is not her personal fault.

Is it OK to post the name if you got great service? I've seen many do this so it should be the same for bad service. Sorry, but I think that's terrible advice.

 

[Gearhead Jim]

Recently I bought a couple of cases of Winchester .380 fmj, two different lot numbers.

The ammo shoots fine but the primer pockets in the brass are too shallow. No matter how hard I seat the primers on my Dillon 650, I end up with about 6% that are just barely flush and require careful inspection to be sure they are not high, and another 5% that are indeed high and therefore unsafe.

Same lot of primers are just fine in my other 12 different .380 headstamps, it's the Winchester brass causing the problem.

 

[photosaurus]

I don't understand the problem. My reloads all look like that.

Terry, 230RN

Now that's funny right there, I don't care who you are. That there is funny.

 

[Reloadron]

I don't understand the problem. My reloads all look like that.

Terry, 230RN

Have to agree, that was just plain funny.


Ron

 

[M1key]

^^^ I've seen that picture before. I have a copy in my picture file under "cartridges". It must date back to 2014 or earlier. What gives? Are these original and how long have these pictures been floating around?

M

 

[ljnowell]

Recently I bought a couple of cases of Winchester .380 fmj, two different lot numbers.



The ammo shoots fine but the primer pockets in the brass are too shallow. No matter how hard I seat the primers on my Dillon 650, I end up with about 6% that are just barely flush and require careful inspection to be sure they are not high, and another 5% that are indeed high and therefore unsafe.



Same lot of primers are just fine in my other 12 different .380 headstamps, it's the Winchester brass causing the problem.

Almost all Winchester pistol brass has tight primer pockets. I know a ballistician that worked for many years at Winchester doing lots of things in production side, he currently managed the Olin/Winchester Handgun Facility in East Alton, IL. He told me that they always shoot for the tighter side on primer pockets in production.

It's good for longevity of reloading, but sometimes you really have to fight them in there. I haven't really ran across any shallow ones, but I do deprime all my once fired Winchester cases I get from the handgun facility and swage them before their first reloading.

 

[Warp]

^^^ I've seen that picture before. I have a copy in my picture file under "cartridges". It must date back to 2014 or earlier. What gives? Are these original and how long have these pictures been floating around?

M

You sure?

OP, would it be bothersome to take an additional photo different from the ones already posted?

FWIW the Google image search doesn't find any others of that picture

 

[Compound8.0]

Winchester White box bulk 100 rounds ... nope never again ! Bought ten boxes at Dicks , a loose mixed date case during the big "panic" of 2013 , stored them in sealed ammo cans with desiccant bags . Well I decided to use them in a Defensive Pistol class I was helping with . Took three boxes and the second box in I start to get one of every 3 or 4 rounds that sounds like low powder loads possible squibs luckily not , and what looked like unburned powder flakes in the barrel and spent casings . Manufacture date of May and June 2011 on 5 boxes I shot up just to keep the cases for loading . It was a pain in the neck not to mention my wrist as I was determined to get them gone that day . Then checking the other dates made in 2012 randomly from the last of the case , ta da no problems . Cases all good not like the OPs but I won't be able to trust the Brand again , I need a loud Bang when I roll that trigger not a Phttt !

 

[Miked7762]

I've seen that picture before. I have a copy in my picture file under "cartridges". It must date back to 2014 or earlier. What gives? Are these original and how long have these pictures been floating around?

You aren't alone. They looked familiar to me too, along with some other things that weren't right.

Clue 1: I've seen these before.
Clue 2: When was that last time you saw that style packaging on WWB?
Clue 3: Photos were taken in 2011.
Clues 4 & 5: A very, VERY brief search found them here:
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=358496
and also much closer to home:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=588520

Looks like the OP has omitted and 'adjusted' some facts this time around, though.

 

[ljnowell]

What gives OP? You just dig this up every so often and repost it??

 

[OilyPablo]

Odd trolling.

Work for a competitor? That would be just too blatant.

Maybe forgot he posted it before ........but it just happened. I've seen some weird stuff done by bots...strange stuff.

 

[njl]

Ignoring (or maybe adding to) the fact that this is some kind of weird troll/old repost, something else strikes me about those bad rounds. I used to shoot a lot of Winchester value pack, but have been loading all my own pistol ammo for about the past 8 years...so it's been a while since I've bought ammo. The brass I tumble in corn cob/walnut mixed media generally looks cleaner than those 7 defective cases. Factory Win used to always be bright/shiny/clean brass.

This makes me wonder if those 7 were someone's failed attempt at reloading and the Winchester box in the background is coincidental / being repurposed to hold reloads.

 

[mjsdwash]

.delete

 

[exbrit49]

Mod time to remove this Post

I dont buy any commercial ammo as I reload for every caliber I own,
Not sure of the legal status of OPs defaming Winchester, and really dont care.
What I do care about is the many people new to our sport/Hobby that visit this site to get good helpful information. In this post all the info dates from 2011 and has been posted several times using the same photos and a similar complaint. Not a highlight for THR!
Time to remove this thread, its a personal vendetta against a legitimate supplier. Seems the OP figured he was going to get a bunch of freebie ammo and got mad when he didn't.
As noted I do not purchase ammo but lets see some reasonable reports on the current QC levels on CURRENT Production ammo.
We are all painfully aware of the shortages that occurred just a few years ago and the fact that the backlog was running months. Equipment was being run 24/7. It would have been nice to have seen the actual PPM ( parts per Million ) of defective ammo that was produced during that time.

Over 30 years of reloading and the PPM for my reloads is "0", and I do load and shoot a LOT. (Quite a few thousand rounds every year)
.380
9mm
7.62x39
30/30 Win
.38 Spl
.357 Mag
45ACP
45 Colt

 

[Reloadron]

So what it comes down to is post one was nothing but a big lie, pure BS and that is a real shame. A good number of people come to this forum for good reliable information plus an unwarranted shot at Winchester in general. Not very cool on that note, not cool at all.

Ron

 

[Warp]

So what it comes down to is post one was nothing but a big lie, pure BS and that is a real shame. A good number of people come to this forum for good reliable information plus an unwarranted shot at Winchester in general. Not very cool on that note, not cool at all.

Ron

Why are you/we so sure of this?

 

[Reloadron]

Why are you/we so sure of this?

Well, at first I was hesitant and then Post 64 by Miked7762 linked to the same images posted by the original poster in an thread for another forum going back to 4-20-2011 which can be viewed here. So the originally posted images are about 4 years old.

The same poster was responsible for this thread back in April of 2011 in these THR forums. Here the poster claims:

In a couple new boxes of 9mm ammo I found over 7 defective rounds. The first bad one failed to chamber. Luckly it didn't as it could have blown the gun up in my face. I then looked through the boxes and found 6 more. It's amazing that they actually boxed these up.

However, in this current thread, which the OP has modified the original post t is left to look like all 7 rounds were in a single box of 100.

Looking at all of this something certainly seems a bit suspicious? I was born at night but not last night. I also don't see any coincidence here. Thus I see the original post as little more than a big lie designed to draw attention and beat up Winchester White Box. Others may see things differently but I see it as a big lie and BS.

Beyond that Warp, I really don't know what to tell you? Looks like BS to me. I may well be wrong and sorry if I am but this is how I see it. This thread begins like it just happened. I also find it hard to believe Winchester would have ignored a call like this.

Ron

 

[Warp]

I don't know how I missed miked's great detective post

elano, why are you lying to everybody/intentionally misleading everybody??

 

[Yo Mama]

I caught on after op was asked four times for a lot number and didn't provide any substance. Lame, winchester should look at this post and contact op, maybe giving us his full name

 

[Warp]

I caught on after op was asked four times for a lot number and didn't provide any substance. Lame, winchester should look at this post and contact op, maybe giving us his full name

Now why would they do that?