If circumstances dictate that I have to go without hearing protection, then that's what I'll do. On the other hand, however, if I have a chance to put on electronic earmuffs, then I think that it would be advantageous both during and in the aftermath of a shooting incident by enhancing and preserving an important sense. I wouldn't discount comfort, either, in case I don't manage to "block out" the sound, and it would help prevent me from being startled by the unfamiliar loudness of gunfire under such conditions.
defending yourself indoors without hearing loss
- Thread starter Zanad
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Anyone know how our military addresses this with live firefights that occur probably daily, overseas? I can't imagine soldiers would use hearing protection??
Please don't suggest a 223 puts out a mild report.
I once invited a friend to the range with me to shoot some .270 and 9mm. I brought hearing protection for both of us, but he refused to wear his. I asked him after, if he felt like a man for shooting without protection. His reply - "HUH".
Please don't suggest a 223 puts out a mild report.
I once invited a friend to the range with me to shoot some .270 and 9mm. I brought hearing protection for both of us, but he refused to wear his. I asked him after, if he felt like a man for shooting without protection. His reply - "HUH".
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mljdeckard
Member
Soldiers are issued hearing protection and are required to have it on them at all times when in the field. The VA is taking an increasingly hard-line position on paying disability for hearing loss, you have ear plugs, if you don't use them it's your fault.
There are a few mitigating factors to consider. On the modern battlefield, it's really better to use earplugs. It's not just the gunshots that are hazardous. There are engines of all types, equipment noise, etc. There are combat vehicles that are so loud that just being inside one is a noise hazard. You are much more likely to be injured because you DIDN'T wear earplugs than because you DID. Also, there are modern protection options, (both electronic and traditional,) that actually do a very good job of canceling out harmful noise while allowing normal noise levels.
But this is different than home defense. Soldiers have time to prepare their gear. If you have to grab a gun to defend your home, you MAY have time to don hearing protection, but I can't imagine it. I won't mock someone for keeping earmuffs next to their bed, but I don't do it.
There are a few mitigating factors to consider. On the modern battlefield, it's really better to use earplugs. It's not just the gunshots that are hazardous. There are engines of all types, equipment noise, etc. There are combat vehicles that are so loud that just being inside one is a noise hazard. You are much more likely to be injured because you DIDN'T wear earplugs than because you DID. Also, there are modern protection options, (both electronic and traditional,) that actually do a very good job of canceling out harmful noise while allowing normal noise levels.
But this is different than home defense. Soldiers have time to prepare their gear. If you have to grab a gun to defend your home, you MAY have time to don hearing protection, but I can't imagine it. I won't mock someone for keeping earmuffs next to their bed, but I don't do it.
I wouldn't call it mild by any means. I had an accidental discharge years ago when i first got an AR15. The report was far from defeaning. Yes it was loud, and yes it was uncomfortable but I would rather use a .223 (16" barell at least) inside than any handgun or shotgun with regards to severity of report.
Cosmoline
Member
It's all going to hurt. I would not suggest downloading to prevent potential hearing damage, there's too much at stake
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Revolvers are louder than pistols, and short barrels are louder than longer barrels. Caliber makes some difference, but not as much as one might expect.
In terms of decibels at the shooter's ear, the loudest of all defensive firearms would be the short-barreled .357 revolver (due to the barrel-cylinder gap and the very high pressure at that location). Centerfire pistols are less loud, and are comparable to 16-18" barreled rifles and 18" barreled shotguns, assuming no brakes. Brakes make anything considerably louder than it would otherwise be. The quietest would probably be a .38 or 9mm carbine with a 16" or longer barrel shooting heavy-for-caliber bullets, but "quiet" is still a relative term; they are still very, very loud.
Some dB measurements here:
http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml
In terms of decibels at the shooter's ear, the loudest of all defensive firearms would be the short-barreled .357 revolver (due to the barrel-cylinder gap and the very high pressure at that location). Centerfire pistols are less loud, and are comparable to 16-18" barreled rifles and 18" barreled shotguns, assuming no brakes. Brakes make anything considerably louder than it would otherwise be. The quietest would probably be a .38 or 9mm carbine with a 16" or longer barrel shooting heavy-for-caliber bullets, but "quiet" is still a relative term; they are still very, very loud.
Some dB measurements here:
http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml
Perforate
Member
Honestly shooting outdoors is a world of difference, however indoors as the question states, I always keep a pair of ear plugs right next to My home defense weapons.
Ok let's say worst case scenario, for some reason I'm not able to get in the ear plugs fast enough and I have to fire without them, well then no matter what indoors it's going to hurt, so might as well get as much power and caliber out of it as possible!
]
Ok let's say worst case scenario, for some reason I'm not able to get in the ear plugs fast enough and I have to fire without them, well then no matter what indoors it's going to hurt, so might as well get as much power and caliber out of it as possible!
]
possum
Member
how about a 9mm handgun with a can?
I guess I still have my hearing just from dumb luck. I started hunting at the age of 8 and shot everything, .22 LR, shotgun and high powered rifles.
I never used any hearing protection when hunting. When I would go out plinking or for serious target practice I would stuff some cotton in my ears but that was the extent of my hearing protection in my early years. And all of that shooting was done out of doors.
When I became involved with handguns I always had quality hearing protection when practicing but was involved with a number of guns being fired inside a building when I had no hearing protection. I suffered some discomfort on those occasions and slight hearing difficulty for a very short while but never any long term issues.
The only time I did suffer a hearing loss/problem was when 2 other officers and I came under rifle fire from 2 suspects. Fortunatetly they were highly intoxicated and not very good shots and we neutralized them right away without being hit ourselves. I was slightly ahead of the other 2 officers and when fired upon we all 3 opened up with our .357's. The other officers, one on either side of me were so close that I received stipling and powder burns on the back of my neck and upper arms. I could hear nothing at all for about 5 hours and then my hearing gradually started to come back. However it was 3-4 days before my hearing was completely normal again.
I don't know anything about auditory exclusion or some of the other terms used here but I do know that when someone is in your home, or the bullets start to fly or even if you just hear a bump in the night that the idea of hearing protection is going to go right out the window. There may be some that either practice putting on hearing protection enough that it becomes second nature or some may be concerned enough about their hearing that they will take time to put it on regardless of circumstances (if they have time) but my guess is that 99.9% are going to forget all about those hearing protectors as soon as they become involved with one of these frightful situations. Those type of events often feel like they are happening in slow motion but in reality it happens in a split second and there isn't time for anything but immediate reaction.
Like I said in the beginning, it may have been plain dumb luck but I have fired 1000's and 1000's of rounds of all calibers under all kinds of situations, with and without hearing protection and at the age of 69 years I still have full hearing ability. I hope this doesn't sound like I am down playing the use of hearing protection because I am not. ALWAY WEAR HEARING PORTECTION whenever possible. Neither am I suggesting that someone might not suffer a hearing problem when exposed to the sound of a sharp crack of a weapon in close proximity. All I am doing is giving my experiences and expressing my humble opinion. And that opinion is that some of these hearing concerns may not be as serious as you fear. My .02 cents worth.
I never used any hearing protection when hunting. When I would go out plinking or for serious target practice I would stuff some cotton in my ears but that was the extent of my hearing protection in my early years. And all of that shooting was done out of doors.
When I became involved with handguns I always had quality hearing protection when practicing but was involved with a number of guns being fired inside a building when I had no hearing protection. I suffered some discomfort on those occasions and slight hearing difficulty for a very short while but never any long term issues.
The only time I did suffer a hearing loss/problem was when 2 other officers and I came under rifle fire from 2 suspects. Fortunatetly they were highly intoxicated and not very good shots and we neutralized them right away without being hit ourselves. I was slightly ahead of the other 2 officers and when fired upon we all 3 opened up with our .357's. The other officers, one on either side of me were so close that I received stipling and powder burns on the back of my neck and upper arms. I could hear nothing at all for about 5 hours and then my hearing gradually started to come back. However it was 3-4 days before my hearing was completely normal again.
I don't know anything about auditory exclusion or some of the other terms used here but I do know that when someone is in your home, or the bullets start to fly or even if you just hear a bump in the night that the idea of hearing protection is going to go right out the window. There may be some that either practice putting on hearing protection enough that it becomes second nature or some may be concerned enough about their hearing that they will take time to put it on regardless of circumstances (if they have time) but my guess is that 99.9% are going to forget all about those hearing protectors as soon as they become involved with one of these frightful situations. Those type of events often feel like they are happening in slow motion but in reality it happens in a split second and there isn't time for anything but immediate reaction.
Like I said in the beginning, it may have been plain dumb luck but I have fired 1000's and 1000's of rounds of all calibers under all kinds of situations, with and without hearing protection and at the age of 69 years I still have full hearing ability. I hope this doesn't sound like I am down playing the use of hearing protection because I am not. ALWAY WEAR HEARING PORTECTION whenever possible. Neither am I suggesting that someone might not suffer a hearing problem when exposed to the sound of a sharp crack of a weapon in close proximity. All I am doing is giving my experiences and expressing my humble opinion. And that opinion is that some of these hearing concerns may not be as serious as you fear. My .02 cents worth.
friscolatchi
Member
WSCO - good honest post. I was thinking about this subject today after my 7 year old and I went to the range yesterday to shoot the 22's. We were both wearing our ears, however I really should invest in the best possible protection for us, especially to protect his young ears. I have developed tinnitus from 2 years of revolver shooting and have had a few blasts from the larger calibers, mistakenly without protection.
I see this topic of hearing protection in a SD situation. I have had to shoot in confined places without hearing protection more than once, In a SD situation hearing protection is the last thing on your mind you have more serious things to think about. Should I be ready to shoot or donning my hearing protection? I don't think you want to put that gun down. Any type of hearing protection is going to diminish your hearing ability.
Lose hearing or die? I'll lose a little hearing (which I have).
I'm not advocating not wearing hearing protection under normal circumstances but I think the topic coming up so often is a bit silly.
Lose hearing or die? I'll lose a little hearing (which I have).
I'm not advocating not wearing hearing protection under normal circumstances but I think the topic coming up so often is a bit silly.
BeerSleeper
Member
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Wear hearing protection for practice shooting, where you probably shoot a handful of BOXES of ammo. In a defensive situation, you'll probably shoot a handful of rounds.
I know someone who was shooting a little .32 on a wide open outdoor range and had no ear protection whatsoever. His ears were ringing for weeks, so I would say use the caliber that you're most comfortable with and to not worry too much about the report. One solution would be to wear soft foam ear plugs at night. They could give you a better night's sleep and have your ears already protected for such a situation. The other side to that, though, would be that you might not be able to hear any sounds that would alert you to an intruder.
Do you know the circumstances or caliber of the 3 rounds?
amd6547
Member
In 1980, I worked for the NRA at Camp Perry, and I talked many older gentleman who had shot at the National Matches for years before hearing protection was common. They were all deaf as doorknobs. I also had the honor of meeting Bill Jordan there, he was also very hard of hearing.
I myself fired 6 rds out of a 380 auto once with no hearing pro on...my ears rang for days.
I myself fired 6 rds out of a 380 auto once with no hearing pro on...my ears rang for days.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
WSCO,
Just curious- have you ever had a hearing test?
lpl
Just curious- have you ever had a hearing test?
lpl
BeerSleeper
Member
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I use hearing protection anytime I do any planned shooting, but I don't use it when I have to shoot fast.
Last night, I saw a skunk when I pulled in the driveway after dark. I grabbed my 40 and shot it, without hearing protection. I work on a farm, and will frequently grab a rifle to shoot a coyote, feral cat, or other varmint. It's always a matter of trying to get to the gun, quick, before you lose the shot.
I still have excellent hearing. I can hear voices that no one else can hear.
Last night, I saw a skunk when I pulled in the driveway after dark. I grabbed my 40 and shot it, without hearing protection. I work on a farm, and will frequently grab a rifle to shoot a coyote, feral cat, or other varmint. It's always a matter of trying to get to the gun, quick, before you lose the shot.
I still have excellent hearing. I can hear voices that no one else can hear.
The shooting occurred indoors during a drug raid. 2 rounds of .38spl were fired in the general direction of the officer--two misses although one creased the neck of a second officer. 1 round of .357Magnum fired back by the officer that ended the confrontation instantly.
+100
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
A .357 revolver is one of the loudest of all defensive firearms. In terms of decibels at the shooter's ear, it's louder than an 18" barreled .30-06, which is saying something.
http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml
Zanad
Member
WOW, I guess that rules out useing the .357 for INDOOR use.
with all these comments I may just jump through the hoops for a silencer.
now my question changes, I have access to a metal lathe and I have the experince to use it, so would it be worth it to save the money and legally make my own silencer?
with all these comments I may just jump through the hoops for a silencer.
now my question changes, I have access to a metal lathe and I have the experince to use it, so would it be worth it to save the money and legally make my own silencer?
mljdeckard
Member
I doubt it. Cans have become so standardized now, I think that you would go through a lot of trial and error just to get what is under the glass at Impact.
And remember two things, suppressors work best with sub-sonic rounds, and SOME experts, like Massad Ayoob, will tell you that using ANY NFA item in self-defense is begging to get prosecuted.
I'm not worried about the effects enough to affect my choice of weapon, but I will admit it makes me feel better that I plan on using a carbine or shotgun instead of a heavy revolver.
Your call.
And remember two things, suppressors work best with sub-sonic rounds, and SOME experts, like Massad Ayoob, will tell you that using ANY NFA item in self-defense is begging to get prosecuted.
I'm not worried about the effects enough to affect my choice of weapon, but I will admit it makes me feel better that I plan on using a carbine or shotgun instead of a heavy revolver.
Your call.
RevDerb
Member
Any hearing damage that may be inflicted in a self defense situation indoors is unlikely to be permanent. Most hearing loss happens due to prolonged exposure to high db noise. OSHA weights their hearing protection requirements in a db (loudness) vs. time (length of exposure) formula.
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